[2015 TRC] South Africa v New Zealand in Johannesburg (25/07/2015)

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yeah, but I think Mohoje won't start. I think Whiteley will get game time against the AB's, and maybe Schalla at 7. Especially if Victor isn't playing, we'll need Schalk's leadership in the forwards.

He'll probably be on the bench though at the expense of wither Flip, De Jager or (even if he isn't part of the squad) Kriel.

 

[TRF_heineken]

He'll probably be on the bench though at the expense of wither Flip, De Jager or (even if he isn't part of the squad) Kriel.

Or Mostert... Remember he has been part of the original group and was left behind for the Aussie trip.

 

[SomeOke]

based on what has been said in the media, and on Boots and All last week from JDV, I have an idea that the team for Saturday will look like this:

1. Trevor Nyakane
2. Adriaan Strauss
3. Frans Malherbe
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Lood De Jager
6. Francois Louw
7. Schalk Burger
8. Warren Whiteley
9. Cobus Reinach
10. Pat Lambie
11. Bryan Habana
12. Damian De Allende
13. Jesse Kriel
14. JP Pietersen
15. Willie Le Roux

16. Schalk Brits/Bismarck Du Plessis
17. Heinke van Der Merwe
18. Vincent Koch/Marcell van der Merwe
19. Teboho Mohoje (unless he calls someone up like Franco Mostert/Flip van der Merwe)
20. Jaco Kriel/Arno Botha
21. Rudy Paige/Ruan Pienaar
22. Handre Pollard/Morne Steyn
23. Jan Serfontein/Lwazi Mvovo

I'm somewhat ok with the team, I'm happy to give the Shark halfbacks a run, but if we're going to start Strauss over BdP I can't help but think that's a weakened team.

 

[TobesHodges]

Where's Jan Serfontain? He's a solid player and young! Push kriel to full back and willie to wing, JP has sadly dropped that killer touch were so used to seeing.. If the boks can defend like they did for 60 mins against AUS for the full 80 they have a chance, but they are going to have to go some in defence to rock this NZ team.. Massive defence seems to be the only way to beat the AB's.. Looking forward to it!!

 

[FlukeArtist]

Be interesting to see the game plan the Boks employ.

That great game in (?)'13 was mostly down to Boks employing a running game. OK, they got pipped at the post by the ABs but it showed what they can do with ball in hand instead of being booted skyward.

 

[Mcfadden]

Anyone else think some of the younger All Blacks in the front row should get a start? For me I'd expect to see a mostly full strength side, but wouldn't mind seeing more of Nepo Laulala. His statistics in Super Rugby were better than Wyatt Crockett and Owen Franks (comparatively with the amount of time played). Codie Taylor is a pretty good lineout thrower and involved himself last week, although Coles is clearly the frontrunner at hooker by some way. You get the feeling if they played a mostly full strength squad with the Hurricanes and Highlanders guys back, that one of two experiments in the front row could be forgiven. For the most part though, Bledisloe Cup Game 2 would probably be more appropriate to try things. Broadhurst, Skudder, Dagg (love him or hate him he stepped up) and others like Fekitoa and Sam Cane who will need to stretch the legs before the World Cup.

 

[Shaggy]

people keep saying that but i didn't think he made a massive impact... i thought Nonu looked good and i'd still go Nonu/Smith than Williams.

I don't think williams is a 12 i would play him at 13.

I was actually pleasantly surprised by the SBW/Nonu combination; it wasn't SBW's ability to play 12 that surprised my, rather Nonu's ability to play 13, and how well they gelled in the Midfield. I am hoping that Fekitoa's gets selected in some capacity for this match, and that he gets some game time on the wing, as I see that Crotty, and even Moala (now that Naholo is out), have probably a better chance of being selected for the RWC squad, due to their versatility.

 

[Kiwi_]

I was actually pleasantly surprised by the SBW/Nonu combination; it wasn't SBW's ability to play 12 that surprised my, rather Nonu's ability to play 13, and how well they gelled in the Midfield. I am hoping that Fekitoa's gets selected in some capacity for this match, and that he gets some game time on the wing, as I see that Crotty, and even Moala (now that Naholo is out), have probably a better chance of being selected for the RWC squad, due to their versatility.

Dude, they were playing Argentina, in Christchurch, it was their first game back. You couldn't get much easier vs a "top tier" nation, same goes for this resurgence of form for Dagg. The real questions will be asked in SA and Aussie, unfortunately Sonny misses his chance in SA. I guess it's Fekitoas turn to make a mark and statement, in a hard game.

 

[Shaggy]

Dude, they were playing Argentina, in Christchurch, it was their first game back. You couldn't get much easier vs a "top tier" nation, same goes for this resurgence of form for Dagg. The real questions will be asked in SA and Aussie, unfortunately Sonny misses his chance in SA. I guess it's Fekitoas turn to make a mark and statement, in a hard game.

Really, isn't our toughest pool match against Argentina? Doesn't that mean that that combination can be used with confidence at any stage during pool play?

After watching the amount of ball being spilt (not just by the midfield) against Samoa, which by world rankings, should have been an easier match, I was pretty happy with the improvement against Argentina. Do I think SBW/Nonu is our top midfield combo? Of course not; I was concerned about one or other of them's ability to cover 13 if C.Smith got injured.

Does it mean that the midfield selections are finalised for the RWC? No, Crotty, Fekitoa's, Ngatai, and Moala all have a chance to prove their worth, but, my point is that that midfield combo went pretty well in that match.

Dagg's performance was much better, but I wouldn't included him (or leave him out) solely based on that performance, for the same reason; the AB selectors need to see other players at fullback.

 

[Kiwi_]

What my major concern would be is how our tight 5 is going to perform vs SA and how are we going to defend the rolling maul. We seem to have a habit of attacking the wrong area of the maul, or over compensating (or conceding penalties for bringing it down, because Hansen believes that should be legal). This could prove our Achilles heal. It feels like one of those video game glitches you find in a game, a cheap way to score. None the less we have to learn to defend them well. The Brumbies did it to the Crusaders 3 times in one game, and that's with a majority All Black pack, now the Argies, twice. So it's a glaring issue in our part. Maybe the Bok won't utilize it this RC and keep it as a card up their sleeve IF they think they will meet us in the SF, will be interesting to see.

As far as the outside backs go, they virtually pick themselves, with the exception of #14 now. I bet Hansen will end up going Dagg #15 and Ben at #14 just so he can have his favourite on the park. It makes sense as well if Dagg can find the form. It's a shame Ben can't play his natural most effective position, but that's life.

 

[Larksea]

so many options for the All Blacks, its not just a case of selecting the best team. Players are being rested after long super rugby campaigns 3 NZ teams in the finals 2 went all the way, the Highlanders in particular had a really long run. And there is a handful of new guys who are ready to be exposed to test rugby to see how they go.

This game could decide the Rugby Championship, probably will decide the rugby championship IMO. And if this was a normal year then we wouldn't be blooding new guys but I hope we do. If we start Broadhurst & Skudder and they play well then book them for the world cup. It will say a heck of a lot. Playing the boks in SA is the most pressure the players can experience outside world cup finals rugby IMO pretty much the "acid test"

Not taking Dan Carter makes things interesting. He's really been a steady hand the last couple of weeks and we kinda start again with a new 10. I expect a couple of weeks off would do wonders for Barrett, the smiths & Coles. Barrett was still recovering with his Knee that should be much better, but sopoaga isn't injured and needs a run at some point...

The McCaw, Kaino, Read Trio has had two tests in a row I honestly think its a good idea to manage these guys workload looking towards the WC, making sure these three go into the WC finals in good condition will go a long way to winning it... I always refer to 2011 where because Vito & Thomson had injuries Kaino had a big workload through the WC and was close to a spent force for the final. Messam is near enough to as good as Kaino these days maybe start him at 6 or 8.

I want to see Broadhurst get a start, he's a good fit to counter a big bok pack. And with Naholo & jane injured I really want to see Skudder get a run. The safe option would be to run dagg at 15 and Smith at 14.

bottom line, too many options to actually pick a side...

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

Be interesting to see the game plan the Boks employ.

That great game in (?)'13 was mostly down to Boks employing a running game. OK, they got pipped at the post by the ABs but it showed what they can do with ball in hand instead of being booted skyward.

And there you have it. The Boks won a crucial game against the AB's with running rugby last year via Pollard (spelling) with a try ironically. Even though the AB's won the RC last year the Boks beat us on our last outing with running rugby.

HM isn't a clown and I'm nervous, not for this game at Ellis Park but HM's intention for this RWC

 

[Mcfadden]

so many options for the All Blacks, its not just a case of selecting the best team. Players are being rested after long super rugby campaigns 3 NZ teams in the finals 2 went all the way, the Highlanders in particular had a really long run. And there is a handful of new guys who are ready to be exposed to test rugby to see how they go.

This game could decide the Rugby Championship, probably will decide the rugby championship IMO. And if this was a normal year then we wouldn't be blooding new guys but I hope we do. If we start Broadhurst & Skudder and they play well then book them for the world cup. It will say a heck of a lot. Playing the boks in SA is the most pressure the players can experience outside world cup finals rugby IMO pretty much the "acid test"

Not taking Dan Carter makes things interesting. He's really been a steady hand the last couple of weeks and we kinda start again with a new 10. I expect a couple of weeks off would do wonders for Barrett, the smiths & Coles. Barrett was still recovering with his Knee that should be much better, but sopoaga isn't injured and needs a run at some point...

The McCaw, Kaino, Read Trio has had two tests in a row I honestly think its a good idea to manage these guys workload looking towards the WC, making sure these three go into the WC finals in good condition will go a long way to winning it... I always refer to 2011 where because Vito & Thomson had injuries Kaino had a big workload through the WC and was close to a spent force for the final. Messam is near enough to as good as Kaino these days maybe start him at 6 or 8.

I want to see Broadhurst get a start, he's a good fit to counter a big bok pack. And with Naholo & jane injured I really want to see Skudder get a run. The safe option would be to run dagg at 15 and Smith at 14.

bottom line, too many options to actually pick a side...

That's true, it's worth being wary of it. Kaino was pretty buggered, and Read had played a lot. But being tired by the time the World Cup Final rolled around was also due to a hefty Super Rugby campaign. Which haven't been quite as hectic this year.

2011 Super Rugby Minutes played:

• Read - 1,218 minutes

• Kaino - 1,212 minutes

2015 Super Rugby Minutes played:

• Read - 784 minutes
  
• Kaino - 622 minutes

Read has played 5 games less in his campaign compared to 2011, and Kaino has played 7 less. Of the loose trio, only McCaw has played more minutes than the 2011 campaign, so perhaps giving Cane a run during one of the matches against Australia wouldn't be a bad idea. If anything, this year people like Ben Smith and Aaron Smith have played the type of minutes that resemble the 2011 figure for Kaino/Read, etc. Hence involving Dagg more is quite a real prospect. You can't be expected to get into form without game time - did 2007 not teach anyone that? (not directing that question at you.) And yes, it was only Argentina but it's a decent start.

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

That's true, it's worth being wary of it. Kaino was pretty buggered, and Read had played a lot. But being tired by the time the World Cup Final rolled around was also due to a hefty Super Rugby campaign. Which haven't been quite as hectic this year.

2011 Super Rugby Minutes played:

• Read - 1,218 minutes

• Kaino - 1,212 minutes

2015 Super Rugby Minutes played:

• Read - 784 minutes
  
• Kaino - 622 minutes

Read has played 5 games less in his campaign compared to 2011, and Kaino has played 7 less. Of the loose trio, only McCaw has played more minutes than the 2011 campaign, so perhaps giving Cane a run during one of the matches against Australia wouldn't be a bad idea. If anything, this year people like Ben Smith and Aaron Smith have played the type of minutes that resemble the 2011 figure for Kaino/Read, etc. Hence involving Dagg more is quite a real prospect. You can't be expected to get into form without game time - did 2007 not teach anyone that? (not directing that question at you.) And yes, it was only Argentina but it's a decent start.

Kaino was playing in Japan BTW compared to Reid

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

What my major concern would be is how our tight 5 is going to perform vs SA and how are we going to defend the rolling maul. We seem to have a habit of attacking the wrong area of the maul, or over compensating (or conceding penalties for bringing it down, because Hansen believes that should be legal). This could prove our Achilles heal. It feels like one of those video game glitches you find in a game, a cheap way to score. None the less we have to learn to defend them well. The Brumbies did it to the Crusaders 3 times in one game, and that's with a majority All Black pack, now the Argies, twice. So it's a glaring issue in our part. Maybe the Bok won't utilize it this RC and keep it as a card up their sleeve IF they think they will meet us in the SF, will be interesting to see.

As far as the outside backs go, they virtually pick themselves, with the exception of #14 now. I bet Hansen will end up going Dagg #15 and Ben at #14 just so he can have his favourite on the park. It makes sense as well if Dagg can find the form. It's a shame Ben can't play his natural most effective position, but that's life.

Are you serious Kiwi?
'It feels like one of those video game glitches you find in a game, a cheap way to score. None the less we have to learn to defend them well.'

It was only last week that you were complaining about Dagg and now you're talking about "OPTIONS"

Stick to nintendo Kiwi

 

[TRF_heineken]

And there you have it. The Boks won a crucial game against the AB's with running rugby last year via Pollard (spelling) with a try ironically. Even though the AB's won the RC last year the Boks beat us on our last outing with running rugby.

HM isn't a clown and I'm nervous, not for this game at Ellis Park but HM's intention for this RWC

I think you have a point here.

Just think, this could be the only game the top 2 teams play against each other this year if one of them for some strange reason gets knocked out in the QF at the WC.

I wonder if HM wil try to get the Boks to exploit the glaring weakness the AB's showed against the Argentinians with the mauls, or if there is another area they might want to target.
@TobesHodges, Jan Serfontein is with the squad, but he was injured and only fully recovered 4 days before the Australia game. He might feature this weekend against the AB's which might be a good idea to see how he and De Allende pairs up.

I will be the first to say that I think the AB's will win this one. And this is mostly due to the fact that I can see that HM is using these games as preparation for the WC. So we won't field our best side (probably) and we're going to try things that might blow up in our faces. On the other hand, if his experiments work, then we could get a big victory over the AB's, and then I'll be one happy chappy.

 

[Jaguares]

Dude, they were playing Argentina, in Christchurch, it was their first game back. You couldn't get much easier vs a "top tier" nation, same goes for this resurgence of form for Dagg. The real questions will be asked in SA and Aussie, unfortunately Sonny misses his chance in SA. I guess it's Fekitoas turn to make a mark and statement, in a hard game.

You say that because you are a Landers supporter. Sorry mate, SBW sells jerseys, not Fekitoa.

 

[austingtir]

Anyone else think some of the younger All Blacks in the front row should get a start? For me I'd expect to see a mostly full strength side, but wouldn't mind seeing more of Nepo Laulala. His statistics in Super Rugby were better than Wyatt Crockett and Owen Franks (comparatively with the amount of time played). Codie Taylor is a pretty good lineout thrower and involved himself last week, although Coles is clearly the frontrunner at hooker by some way. You get the feeling if they played a mostly full strength squad with the Hurricanes and Highlanders guys back, that one of two experiments in the front row could be forgiven. For the most part though, Bledisloe Cup Game 2 would probably be more appropriate to try things. Broadhurst, Skudder, Dagg (love him or hate him he stepped up) and others like Fekitoa and Sam Cane who will need to stretch the legs before the World Cup.

From the glimpses iv seen of Nepo he looks bloody good. Theres something about him. He seem to have a crazy ability to leg drive through opponents so could be an incredibly destructive prop for us which imo we need quite badly.

 

[Kiwi_]

You say that because you are a Landers supporter. Sorry mate, SBW sells jerseys, not Fekitoa.

He's one of the main reasons the Highlanders have become a force.

Sure Money Bill sells shirts, but when it comes down to it, Hansen isn't that type of guy (I hope).

We'll see.

Playing Dagg instead of Ben at 15 is still a poor decision that does nothing but make the team worse. But if Hansen wants it that way, then so be it.

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

He's one of the main reasons the Highlanders have become a force.

Sure Money Bill sells shirts, but when it comes down to it, Hansen isn't that type of guy (I hope).

We'll see.

Playing Dagg instead of Ben at 15 is still a poor decision that does nothing but make the team worse. But if Hansen wants it that way, then so be it.

Personally I'd have Ben Smith at 15 but I'm pretty sure that you said on previous threads that Dagg wouldn't make the first XV?

Thanks for the reds BTW