[2015 Six Nations] England vs France (Round 5)

[valley commando]

Armitage would be almost completely ineffectual behind this England pack.

What are you saying, England have a ****e pack ?

Every back row should have balance, that is what England are lacking at present, Robshaw is a 6 and Vunipola lacks mobility, I appreciate you have Morgan to come back, but still think Armitage would improve the team.

 

[RedruthRFC]

What are you saying, England have a ****e pack ?

Every back row should have balance, that is what England are lacking at present, Robshaw is a 6 and Vunipola lacks mobility, I appreciate you have Morgan to come back, but still think Armitage would improve the team.

I read it as saying that England's pack don't dominate tier one opposition to the same extent as the Toulon pack dominate the majority of their Top 14 opponents.

 

[yaboyjj]

What are you saying, England have a ****e pack ?

Every back row should have balance, that is what England are lacking at present, Robshaw is a 6 and Vunipola lacks mobility, I appreciate you have Morgan to come back, but still think Armitage would improve the team.

I agree, the backrow is not balanced (maybe offset by the rest of pack), and there is a problem with mobility with Robshaw/Vunipola/Haskell. I'm yet convinced that Armitage would be an improvement to the team- lets see how he does playing for a team other than Toulon, and how he holds it together when the breakdown is being swamped. He played for the Barbarians recently (or world XV?) and looked a bit out of his depth, having to deal with a bunch of marauding SA's (maybe a bit disingenuous- but you get my point).

 

[goodNumber10]

What are you saying, England have a ****e pack ?

No that's not what i'm saying, and that rubbish pack put Wales to the sword.

I'm saying they have a pack, and play a style of rugby that doesn't suite Armitage.

 

[valley commando]

I agree, the backrow is not balanced (maybe offset by the rest of pack), and there is a problem with mobility with Robshaw/Vunipola/Haskell. I'm yet convinced that Armitage would be an improvement to the team- lets see how he does playing for a team other than Toulon, and how he holds it together when the breakdown is being swamped. He played for the Barbarians recently (or world XV?) and looked a bit out of his depth, having to deal with a bunch of marauding SA's (maybe a bit disingenuous- but you get my point).

Fair comment

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No that's not what i'm saying, and that rubbish pack put Wales to the sword.

I'm saying they have a pack, and play a style of rugby that doesn't suite Armitage.

I appreciate what your saying; and yes England did put us to the sword up front, just a pity we had to play you first up, we're always slow to start, ideally would have liked Italy 1st and England last.

 

[Peat]

I think the major problem with Robshaw is he is playing in a position he doesn't have the correct skillset for. The thing is we don't threaten enough breakdowns. Now maybe we don't aim to but that same menality of ignoring breakdown work means we are also crap at defending our own breakdowns. Now that can't be ignored. We lack players who can consistantly and convincingly clear out the ruck. So often I'm worried we are going to get pinged for infringements at the ruck like holding on as we never look comfortable there.

England's coaching staff seem to work off a platonic ideal where you only commit 2 players to the breakdown to protect your own ball where possible and when defending you set up a flat line and rely on pressure and intensity to effect turnovers rather than the jackal, with the jackal basically reserved for "You're close, they sent no one, have a go".

And I don't think it's the players' fault that these instructions result in a weaker breakdown, because I don't think any set of players would look that convincing at the breakdown with those instructions.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

England's coaching staff seem to work off a platonic ideal where you only commit 2 players to the breakdown to protect your own ball where possible and when defending you set up a flat line and rely on pressure and intensity to effect turnovers rather than the jackal, with the jackal basically reserved for "You're close, they sent no one, have a go".

And I don't think it's the players' fault that these instructions result in a weaker breakdown, because I don't think any set of players would look that convincing at the breakdown with those instructions.

You would think that the fewer players you want to commit to the breakdown, the better they need to be at it to compensate. We go for few players and they aren't particularly good at it. End result, we aren't great at securing our own ball and very rarely slow the ball down at the breakdown. Ireland highlighted this for the world to see and Scotland showed it a bit as we couldn't slow down their recycling at all.

 

[goodNumber10]

You would think that the fewer players you want to commit to the breakdown, the better they need to be at it to compensate. We go for few players and they aren't particularly good at it. End result, we aren't great at securing our own ball and very rarely slow the ball down at the breakdown. Ireland highlighted this for the world to see and Scotland showed it a bit as we couldn't slow down their recycling at all.

scotland rucking last weekend was absolutey brilliant, one man clears and ball straight to Laidlaw - leading up to the Bennett try England didn't set their defensive line once.

 

[Raggs]

Well... I see what you're saying but we were winning with a few minutes to go, so we can't have lost it in the first 20 . Obviously that made it harder for us but fact is we came back into it incredibly well and should have won. That we didn't is due to a mixture of individual Brilliance (Fickou was it?) and managerial incompetence causing Burrell to be defending out of position - and he made the critical error allowing the try.

Erm, what exactly had management done wrong?

No no no, because what if our 12 got injured?!
WHAT IF?!?!?!?
It makes much more sense to cover that one position and rearrange the rest of the backline.

But that wasn't the case last year... last year we had a back 3 replacement on the bench, Goode. May came off after 5 minutes with a busted nose, and due to the pace of the game Nowell had to come off due to the fact it was his first cap and he was cramping up extremely badly. Management can't help it if they have to start using replacements after 5 mins.

 

[French TommyGun]

Picamoles and Nyanga at 100% and roaring to go!

Atonio, Ben Arous, Debaty, Mas, Slimani, Guirado, Kayser, Flanquart, Maestri, Suta, R.Taofifénua, Chouly, Dusautoir, Goujon, Picamoles, Le Roux, Nyanga

Kockott, Tillous-Borde, Lopez, Plisson, Tales, Bastareaud, Fickou, Mermoz, Andreu, Huget, Nakaitaci, Dulin, Spedding

Come on PSA Dusautoir, Nyanga, Picamoles must be the first choice back row!

 

[Chistera]

Picamoles and Nyanga at 100% and roaring to go!

Come on PSA Dusautoir, Nyanga, Picamoles must be the first choice back row!

Dusautoir, Le Roux and Picamoles should start. Goujon and Nyanga on the bench. France should 6 put forwards on the bench again! Our pack is our strong point anyway, let's not pretend to play running rugby at this point. With Bastareaud coming off the bench too, we should aim to overpower England as we overpowered Italy, no need to outplay England if we manage to.

edit : Lopez out for the game, so Plisson will start, he was in better form but it's a blow for Clermont, they've lost their starting 9-10-12 axis to injury in the 6 Nations: Parra, Lopez and Fofana.

 

[Patchey]

Have rewatched the Scotland game (was too annoyed to give much of an opinion at the time!) I'd (realistically) like the below for Saturday:

1. Cole, 2. Youngs, 3. Marler 4. Attwood, 5. Lawes, 6. Haskell 7. Robshaw 8. Binny; 9. Youngs 10. Ford 11. Nowell 12. Twelvetrees 13. Joseph 14. Watson 15. Brown. 16. Hartley 17. Brookes 18. Corbs 19. Parling 20. Wood 21. Wigglesworth 22. Cipriani 23. Slade (is he is training this week?).

 

[Tony Manx]

Have rewatched the Scotland game (was too annoyed to give much of an opinion at the time!) I'd (realistically) like the below for Saturday:

1. Cole, 2. Youngs, 3. Marler 4. Attwood, 5. Lawes, 6. Haskell 7. Robshaw 8. Binny; 9. Youngs 10. Ford 11. Nowell 12. Twelvetrees 13. Joseph 14. Watson 15. Brown. 16. Hartley 17. Brookes 18. Corbs 19. Parling 20. Wood 21. Wigglesworth 22. Cipriani 23. Slade (is he is training this week?).

Slade will not feature and cannot agree with 36. Barritt will fill that role!

 

[Irishkid]

Twelvetrees has been useless all season but I think Barrits injured would rather have Hill and Eastmond in front of both anyway but it won't happen.

 

[Patchey]

To my mind Burrell has been distinctly average (not, in this form, and international 12) and I'm a big 36 so maybe I'm a little biased.

As for Slade, there has been strangely little online or in the press about who has been training worth eh squad this week so I'm not even sure if he can be picked. Regardless though I think this would be a perfect time for him to make his debut. Hill isn't quite ready IMO and Eastmond just isn't going to be selected, ever, if it can be avoided.

Of course what will probably happen is the same team as last week but with Parling and Wood starting.

 

[Raggs]

Don't think Wood will start. Youngs and Parling to come in. Think the fact that those two got 30 minutes against Scotland is significant. Wood came on in the 66th minute, I don't think management are in a hurry to replace Hask.

Rewatched last night. Burrell was average, Watson just didn't get himself involved much. Our defence was too narrow too often, issues with the system I'd guess. Lawes was awesome. Scottish tighthead was a real ****ly bugger, would have earned himself a punch in years gone by.

 

[Patchey]

Lancaster said at the start of the week 'a number of players on the bench are pushing for a starting spot' or words to that effect. Iirc that has often been code for, 'I'm going to start some guys I like regardless of form', in the past. But yeah, I think Youngs and Parling are almost certain to start with Wood perhaps more unlikely because of the reason you mentioned.

Just on Burrell, the one thing in his favour is that he is the first 12 we've had in a long time who actually gets over the gain line. Problem is we don't seem to be aiming to use a crash ball inside centre anymore! And his poor passing and awareness are stifling us. He' be better, as he was year, at 13 but we now have two class players there ahead of him.

He looks more like the player Sale let go that the guy who helped Saints win the Prem at the moment.

 

[goodNumber10]

I'm not sure i agree with any of the comments on Burrell here, in Attack he's been marked out of the game this 6 nations which has created a lot of space for Joseph his strength is that he's got the ability to pull in lots of defenders and get the ball away or get over the gain line, it was invaluable against Wales and Italy - Ireland was pretty much sh*t Gash for everyone, and against Scotland he ended up tackling for himself and George Ford

Sure he's missed a couple of opportunities and made some mistakes, but he's not alone in that.. Brown, Nowell, May the list is almost endless.

He's the best option at 12 we have at the moment without going back to the drawing board in developing players from scratch at international level.

Slade is with Exter as they have the LV final this weekend he wont' be training with England afaia.

 

[Raggs]

I'd agree that Burrell is the best option at 12 at the moment, but it doesn't mean he's been much good. He's been adequate, with a few howlers.

 

[goodNumber10]

such as?