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[2015 RWC] Quarter Final 4: Australia vs. Scotland (18/10/2015)

End of the day out of all the calls they've messed about reviewing this is the one that was the most important and they didnt review it. Its dissapointing especially from my perspective as dickwacker Barnes stocks have now most likely gone up to reff the last two games. He's the sort of guy you'd expect to make this mistake not Joubert.


I havent been following much today but did the Scotland captain point anything out to Jourbert?

Of course he did! His name is Laidlaw!!

Incidentally, it is my understanding that players are not allowed, yet they all do, to ask for the TMO. Can anyone tell me if that a rule or a protocol? Or indeed whether I am talking rubbish?
 
@smartcooky,


I didnt know that regarding the "played at" definition. Are you absloutely sure? Cause on radiosport today, the so called expert was saying whether he intentionaly played at it made all the difference!

Yes, I am sure, and I am sure this person is wrong.

Laws that are written to cover specific situations cannot be generally applied across the whole game, or parts of the game they don't apply to. Let me give you an example and bear with me for a bit...

[TEXTAREA]10.1 OBSTRUCTION
(c) Blocking the tackler. A player must not intentionally move or stand in a position that
prevents an opponent from tackling a ball carrier.
Sanction: Penalty kick
(d) Blocking the ball. A player must not intentionally move or stand in a position that prevents
an opponent from playing the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick
[/TEXTAREA]

If we were to apply this Law universally across the whole game, then rucking, mauling and scrummaging would be illegal. In a maul, all the players in front of the ball carrier are blocking the ball. So too are the players in front of the ball at a ruck, and the entire front row, second row and flankers in a scrum when the ball is at the No 8's feet. To allow rucks and mauls and scrums to take place, we have specific, specially written Laws to allow this phases of play to occur in spite of Law 10.2

When you have a law that covers a General situation, call it Law "A" and another law that covers a specific situation, call it Law "B", and that specific situation occurs, you must apply Law "B" and not Law "A". Further, you must not try to apply the provisions of Law "B" to other situations.

In the case of Law 11.3, it applies to general to offside..

[tExtarea]11.3 BEING PUT ONSIDE BY OPPONENTS
In general play, there are three ways by which an offside player can be put onside by an
action of the opposing team. These three ways do not apply to a player who is offside under
the 10-Metre Law.
(c) Intentionally touches ball. When an opponent intentionally touches the ball but does not
catch it, the offside player is put onside.[/TEXTAREA]

Now some are arguing that because Phipps did not intentionally touch the ball, the Scot wasn't put onside under Law 11.3 (c). However, there is a specific Law, 11.7 that must be applied when the ball is knocked on...

[TEXTAREA]11.7 OFFSIDE AFTER A KNOCK-ON
When a player knocks-on and an offside team-mate next plays the ball, the offside player is
liable to sanction if playing the ball prevented an opponent from gaining an advantage.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/TEXTAREA]

This Law only applies to the knock on situation so you must apply it to the situation under discussion; you must not apply it to other situations, and you must not apply Law 11.3 to this situation. Law 11.7 makes no reference to intentionally playing the ball.l

In the situation under discussion, the blue player knocked the ball forward and and opponent (Phipps) next played the ball before another blue player played it. Therefore, no offside.
 
End of the day out of all the calls they've messed about reviewing this is the one that was the most important and they didnt review it. Its dissapointing especially from my perspective as dickwacker Barnes stocks have now most likely gone up to reff the last two games. He's the sort of guy you'd expect to make this mistake not Joubert.


I havent been following much today but did the Scotland captain point anything out to Jourbert?

I think he had asked him to look at this
https://vine.co/v/e9nv1AZXItI
 
Very harsh call on the Scots. Phipps plays at it therefore should have been a scrum to Aus. Surely big calls in the final few minutes should be allowed to be TMOed. Typical Australia, getting the rub of the green again....Can't see Argentina beating Aus, but I can see NZ smacking them in the final 13+
 
Very harsh call on the Scots. Phipps plays at it therefore should have been a scrum to Aus. Surely big calls in the final few minutes should be allowed to be TMOed. Typical Australia, getting the rub of the green again....Can't see Argentina beating Aus, but I can see NZ smacking them in the final 13+
Yep that good ol rub the green. What happened last week again?
 
Dodgy decision, although the scots only have themselves to blame. They lost their heads with their own line out. Go back to your stock lineout, win it and recycle and control the ball with your forwards.
 
What do you mean what happened last weekend again? Genia and Mumm both got yellow carded for cheating, pretty simple
Except wales were at ut all game got warning after warning but no card until it was all over.
Mumm should of been warned not carded.
Dont let your bias and hatred of us get in the way
 
Very harsh call on the Scots. Phipps plays at it therefore should have been a scrum to Aus. Surely big calls in the final few minutes should be allowed to be TMOed. Typical Australia, getting the rub of the green again....Can't see Argentina beating Aus, but I can see NZ smacking them in the final 13+

Ultimately Scotland created very little and were only in the game thanks to opportunist tries off intercepts/charge downs and a lot of very dodgy penalties.
 
Second, Joubert ran off because feral Scottish fans were throwing bottles at him, seemingly under the impression it was him that let Australia score 5 tries (which frankly should have been 6 - there was no knock on in that ruck).

Do you have any evidence for this? Can you share some footage of this incident?

From why at I understand one of the Scottish coaching team threw an empty water bottle into the running track. Hardly the same thing as presenting the image of "feral Scottish fans" throwing bottles at the referee. And as has already been evidenced by video footage, Joubert was already going for a new personal best as soon as the whistle went and I saw no bottles being thrown.

If you're going to make such a claim you'd better back it up with some evidence.
 
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Seriously, Scotland going through would have been a disaster for the World Cup. They've been the 6N wooden spooners for I don't know how many years, didn't win a game this year in the 6N (again) and NZ regularly put 50 points on them. We talk about upsets and mention games like NZ vs France 99 & 07 or SA vs Japan, but we all know what would happen if it was a Scotland NZ final. They' have another 50 points on them and we'd have a **** final. I remember in 99 as stoked as I was to see NZ lose to France I knew the final would be crap and although we won, I lost interest at half time and ended up talking to some random in the pub about the meaning of life, forgetting about the game. So yeah perhaps Scotland were cheated, but they weren't the better team and for rugbys sake its a good thing they didn't go through.
 
I'd say The Wallabies currently being ranked IRB #2 is just as big of a disaster for the sport.
 
Do you have any evidence for this? Can you share some footage of this incident?

From why at I understand one of the Scottish coaching team threw an empty water bottle into the running track. Hardly the same thing as presenting the image of "feral Scottish fans" throwing bottles at the referee. And as has already been evidenced by video footage, Joubert was already going for a new personal best as soon as the whistle went and I saw no bottles being thrown.

If you're going to make such a claim you'd better back it up with some evidence.

Read it in the paper today:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...ies-penalty-call/story-e6frg7o6-1227573661709
Referee Craig Joubert was pelted with abuse and at least one bottle from irate Scottish fans following a last minute penalty decision to the Wallabies that prevented the biggest upset in the Rugby World Cup.

Scottish fans and the Scottish players were pretty abysmal I thought... everyone pinning it on the ref and carrying on about how unfair and unlucky they were without ever pausing to realise the bucket loads of luck that went their way all tournament and in the way the game itself panned out.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd say The Wallabies currently being ranked IRB #2 is just as big of a disaster for the sport.

Not as big a disaster as NZ making a mockery of the ODI Cricket World Cup Final :p
 
Seriously, Scotland going through would have been a disaster for the World Cup. They've been the 6N wooden spooners for I don't know how many years, didn't win a game this year in the 6N (again) and NZ regularly put 50 points on them. We talk about upsets and mention games like NZ vs France 99 & 07 or SA vs Japan, but we all know what would happen if it was a Scotland NZ final. They' have another 50 points on them and we'd have a **** final. I remember in 99 as stoked as I was to see NZ lose to France I knew the final would be crap and although we won, I lost interest at half time and ended up talking to some random in the pub about the meaning of life, forgetting about the game. So yeah perhaps Scotland were cheated, but they weren't the better team and for rugbys sake its a good thing they didn't go through.

Scotland have finished last in the Six nations since 2000 (when it became the Six Nations) a total of 4 times (in the same time both the Welsh and French have came last).
Our last game v the All Blacks was a 8 point loss and in 30 tests have only conceded more than 50 points a grand total of 3 times.
 
Read it in the paper today:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...ies-penalty-call/story-e6frg7o6-1227573661709


Scottish fans and the Scottish players were pretty abysmal I thought... everyone pinning it on the ref and carrying on about how unfair and unlucky they were without ever pausing to realise the bucket loads of luck that went their way all tournament and in the way the game itself panned out.

So no you don't have any evidence. You have an opinion piece talking about the referee getting abuse from the fans and one bottle being thrown. That bottle, as I have already said apparently being thrown by one of the Scottish coaching team into the running track & no question so suggest it was thrown at Joubert.

You made the claim that "feral" Scottish fans were pelting the referee with bottles. You were wrong. Again, if you happen to find some evidence for your claim as a rational person I'll be happy to change mind.

Edit - also where are you getting this about the Scottish players and their behaviour? The Scottish players and Cotter have all been very pragmatic in their interviews & have all stated they can't blame the referee for the result. You are simply s**t stirring my friend.

And as for fans having a rant on forums & Twitter, well that's what fans do.
 
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Scotland have finished last in the Six nations since 2000 (when it became the Six Nations) a total of 4 times (in the same time both the Welsh and French have came last).
Our last game v the All Blacks was a 8 point loss and in 30 tests have only conceded more than 50 points a grand total of 3 times.

Hypothetically - would you prefer to see an awesome final that is really close without Scotland or a final with Scotland where they get thrashed by 30, 40 points?
 
Technically this call could not be reviewed.

Not true. From the WR definitions: Foul play is anything a player does within the playing enclosure that is against the letter and spirit of the Laws of the Game. It includes obstruction, unfair play, repeated infringements, dangerous play and misconduct which is prejudicial to the Game.

Ergo, a deliberate offisde is foul play. That means it can be referred.
 
Have been reading through the posts today after watching the game this morning.
I am no fan of Joubert but the criticism he is receiving is over the top.
He made a call that was bad, he also made other calls in the game that were bad. It happens in all games. Yes the Scots have the right to feel disappointed but some of the outrageous claims on this forum are way off the mark.
 
Not true. From the WR definitions: Foul play is anything a player does within the playing enclosure that is against the letter and spirit of the Laws of the Game. It includes obstruction, unfair play, repeated infringements, dangerous play and misconduct which is prejudicial to the Game.

Ergo, a deliberate offisde is foul play. That means it can be referred.

I think when it comes to awarding a penalty that will determine the outcome of the game, it should be referred to the TMO even if the ref is 100% sure.
 

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