[2015 RWC] Pool C: New Zealand vs. Tonga (09/10/2015)

[Umaga's Witness]

I'd agree with that if it looked like our combinations were all clicking, but they are far from it. We need to play our best team into form. How would you feel if we had a QF against France or Ireland and the last time the ABs had played together was that woeful Georgian performance. If we don't put our best team out against Tonga I will be very very concerned!

this

 

[Mcfadden]

Barrett uploaded a photo of himself on Fb with some of the boys (Nonu, Messam, Slade and Wayne Smith) and it looked like he'd been training pretty hard. Not sure how easy he took it, but there didn't look like any major worries.

 

[Icemn]

question... what is the weather going to be like when the AB face Tonga?

this might affect the AB rhythm...

anyways...

i just want them to be starting the team that they would play in a final and stick with that team going forward...

i hate all this chopping and changing its going to bite the AB in the ass just like it did in 2003 and 2007

 

[Larksea]

question... what is the weather going to be like when the AB face Tonga?

this might affect the AB rhythm...

anyways...

i just want them to be starting the team that they would play in a final and stick with that team going forward...

i hate all this chopping and changing its going to bite the AB in the ass just like it did in 2003 and 2007

we havn't change things any more than we did in 2011, most of the changes have been due to injuries and ****les. Only real change was Barrett, Cane & slade against Namibia but IMO that was a good change we dont want carter, McCaw and ben smith starting every game in the tournament.

weak pools are a hiding to nothing for the All Blacks. As it was in 2007 the games are basically than training sessions. Argentina had 60 good minutes in them but apart from that its just been routine stuff. winning games and not showing their hand. By far the most important stuff is happening in the closed training sessions.

The ab's are going to go into a quater final underdone, its just a fact. But we have a history of lifting with the opposition and also for being able to fight the full 80min or more and win games against the best teams in the world without really looking that good. We are probably going to have to draw on this traits come the business end of the comp.

we also need individuals to lift, Nonu, Kaino, Conrad, Aaron, Savea, carter, woodcock its not a team thing or the game plan. These individuals need to lift they are all well below their normal standards. We simply need some of these guys to go from stuttering to playing match winning performances.

 

[ABs2011]

question... what is the weather going to be like when the AB face Tonga?

this might affect the AB rhythm...

anyways...

i just want them to be starting the team that they would play in a final and stick with that team going forward...

i hate all this chopping and changing its going to bite the AB in the ass just like it did in 2003 and 2007

Yeah I dont understand this either. The changes have been minimal, the majority injury enforced! It's about as settled as one could hope for. I mean they started their full strength side vs Georgia!!

 

[TheOvalBall]

question... what is the weather going to be like when the AB face Tonga?

this might affect the AB rhythm...

anyways...

i just want them to be starting the team that they would play in a final and stick with that team going forward...

i hate all this chopping and changing its going to bite the AB in the ass just like it did in 2003 and 2007

12 degrees Celsius with no rain.

 

[ABs2011]

NMS and Savea are under suspicion as well, we might have a winger crisis this RWC instead of a first 5 crisis, sounds all pretty minor though, fingers crossed.

Just on the main news mate, also various other mainstream news outlets were reporting it. They weren't at training etc.

I still havent heard anything about these injuries mate? Where did you read/hear it?

EDIT: I think you must have heard/read wrong mate. I just saw an updated article that said the ABs didnt train yesterday (NZT) so on that account no-one was at training And the day before they only people reported out of training were the ones I posted earlier. So I'm not sure where that Savea and NMS info comes from, but it certainly contradicts everything I've read. When you get the chance a link would be good.

All Blacks to 'stick to number one XV' for Tonga clash
[video]https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/all-blacks-to-stick-number-one-xv-for-tonga-clash-avid-060a2b340101010501010f1013-000000-d97c43bad5df0094-8e9e0060dd44-a8b1.html?autoPlay=4536567096001[/video]

Team is named at midnight by the way. As far as I am aware Naholo has a starting spot subject to a fitness test, Messam will likely come off the bench, and Nonu is ready to go. Looks like we will see the same side that played Argentina with a couple little tweaks here and there - not sure if SBW is fully fit so perhaps Fekitoa on the bench.

 

[nzlizard]

I still havent heard anything about these injuries mate? Where did you read/hear it?

EDIT: I think you must have heard/read wrong mate. I just saw an updated article that said the ABs didnt train yesterday (NZT) so on that account no-one was at training And the day before they only people reported out of training were the ones I posted earlier. So I'm not sure where that Savea and NMS info comes from, but it certainly contradicts everything I've read. When you get the chance a link would be good.

Same, haven't heard anything about Savea and NMS not training or being injured.

Only outside back I heard about was Nahalo and his bruising.

 

[Mcfadden]

ALL BLACKS: Ben Smith, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Waisake Naholo, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read (c), Sam Cane, Jerome Kaino, Luke Romano, Sam Whitelock, Owen Franks, Dane Coles, Tony Woodcock. Reserves: Keven Mealamu, Wyatt Crockett, Ben Franks, Brodie Retallick, Liam Messam, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Beauden Barrett, Sonny Bill Williams

McCaw is out with injury. Apparently he could have played if absolutely necessary, but since it isn't, he won't.

-http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/72805380/rugby-world-cup-2015-richie-mccaw-ruled-out-waisake-naholo-returns-for-all-blacks

Obviously a great team, still not our best which might be a bit of a worry, but near enough. Sort of surprised Whitelock is still there. Vito doesn't even get a look in, which is disappointing to me, but it does accommodate Liam Messam who really must get some minutes under his belt in case we need him.

No Fekitoa, but I think based on form that's probably justified. I'm not a classic SBW fan, but every time he has been asked to step up he has. He was part of a few dropped catches last week, but that was widely a team problem, so I'm not going to be too harsh on individuals.

I've advocated Crockett and Vito to start in the main side, but it doesn't look like that'll be happening at this World Cup. Vito I can understand, because Kaino brings a stronger tackling game and is better in tight play. I just feel Vito provides that energy, revitalization and newness ..someone who hasn't necessarily been there 150 times.

Not complaining though, just a few minor points. In the context of Tonga, they should get home and selections shouldn't be a biggy (I say shouldn't, no team should be taken for granted). In the context of cohesion, hopefully we find some. I would like to see us work on patience and discipline. Don't be so over eager to pop a miracle offload or do a short-pass, because we don't want those knock ons. We can still play an exciting brand of counter-attack rugby, but there is also nothing wrong with building phases when we're in the 22 if their defense is staunch. I don't think Tonga's style of play will require this, but if we have to grind out a try slowly - then let's do that. Don't try and run over people because you happen to be 6 foot 7 with Polynesian heritage.

 

[nickdnz]

ALL BLACKS: Ben Smith, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Waisake Naholo, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read (c), Sam Cane, Jerome Kaino, Luke Romano, Sam Whitelock, Owen Franks, Dane Coles, Tony Woodcock. Reserves: Keven Mealamu, Wyatt Crockett, Ben Franks, Brodie Retallick, Liam Messam, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Beauden Barrett, Sonny Bill Williams

McCaw is out with injury. Apparently he could have played if absolutely necessary, but since it isn't, he won't.

-http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/72805380/rugby-world-cup-2015-richie-mccaw-ruled-out-waisake-naholo-returns-for-all-blacks

Obviously a great team, still not our best which might be a bit of a worry, but near enough. Sort of surprised Whitelock is still there. Vito doesn't even get a look in, which is disappointing to me, but it does accommodate Liam Messam who really must get some minutes under his belt in case we need him.

No Fekitoa, but I think based on form that's probably justified. I'm not a classic SBW fan, but every time he has been asked to step up he has. He was part of a few dropped catches last week, but that was widely a team problem, so I'm not going to be too harsh on individuals.

I've advocated Crockett and Vito to start in the main side, but it doesn't look like that'll be happening at this World Cup. Vito I can understand, because Kaino brings a stronger tackling game and is better in tight play. I just feel Vito provides that energy, revitalization and newness ..someone who hasn't necessarily been there 150 times.

Not complaining though, just a few minor points. In the context of Tonga, they should get home and selections shouldn't be a biggy (I say shouldn't, no team should be taken for granted). In the context of cohesion, hopefully we find some. As I said earlier in the week, Tonga's style of play should suit us more than those smaller teams.

Guess McCaw can't hit 150 caps now.

 

[Kiwi_]

As I thought McCaw and Retallick to take it easy, they're our most crucial assets and key to the cup, but still McCaw should be getting at least some game time. Brodie might get a look in from the bench later in the game and once again, no sign of Colin Slade. I guess Hansen feels comfortable where the teams at for the quarter finals? I'm biting my tongue and not oozing with confidence, should be a hit out for the starting team, I guess he feels preserving players is more important.

Honestly, I don't even know what's going on, there seems to be a lot of stuffing around with combinations and weird subs and rotations. I think they've really mistreated the pool stages, so much experimentation. None of that was needed, just keep it basic as it comes if you don't want to show your cards too much, but keep it accurate, no idea what they're up to and personally I think it's arrogant and silly how we have approached some games.

 

[Mcfadden]

Some of that has been injury-enforced to be fair. For example, TJ playing back up first five last week I think was largely precautionary. We'll need Slade and Barrett to avoid being fraught with ****les come the quarters. Slade in particular can be very brittle. Then you've seen SBW feature a lot because Nonu hasn't been flash health wise. The wings have changed because you had Naholo coming back, and I personally believe Savea needed game time rather than just saying "let's have Naholo and Skudder be the wingers for every single game." He's not running and having the impact we know he can show, but there's only one solution for that. And since he's in the WC squad, we have to go with that solution.

I could grizzle about my two choices and how they should have featured more, but I don't reckon they've been arrogant. We were a bit experimental in the Namibia test, but I think most people would have expected that. I haven't compared and contrasted with 2011, but surely this is fairly consistent with what we did then?

Don't get me wrong, I have a few concerns too, but for different reasons.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Play the young guys, protect the old guys

 

[Larksea]

As I thought McCaw and Retallick to take it easy, they're our most crucial assets and key to the cup, but still McCaw should be getting at least some game time. Brodie might get a look in from the bench later in the game and once again, no sign of Colin Slade. I guess Hansen feels comfortable where the teams at for the quarter finals? I'm biting my tongue and not oozing with confidence, should be a hit out for the starting team, I guess he feels preserving players is more important.

Honestly, I don't even know what's going on, there seems to be a lot of stuffing around with combinations and weird subs and rotations. I think they've really mistreated the pool stages, so much experimentation. None of that was needed, just keep it basic as it comes if you don't want to show your cards too much, but keep it accurate, no idea what they're up to and personally I think it's arrogant and silly how we have approached some games.

what is happening is they are managing player workload, ****les and injuries within the constraints of a 31 man squad, in normal test matches players would play through ****les or be replaced short term but because its just a pool game and the RWC squad restrictions are in place we have unusual changes happening and players are not being risked if they have a ****le.

I'm fine with the selections, they've obviously decided to rest Savea after 3 straight games. IMO he's still looking thin on form and down on pace despite scoring a bunch of tries.
Naholo gets another run, as does Nehe. This could be a straight shootout to see who gets that 14 jersey come the quarter final.
the key combination of aaron, dan, nonu, conrad is there

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Interesting to see TKB named on the bench ahead of TJP, especially given TJP hasn't had any game time since the Namibia match.

I thought TKB looked pretty good off the bench last week, in contrast to a few of the other members on here. He certainly took more control than Smith had throughout the match, even if he wasn't running freely.

 

[ABs2011]

what is happening is they are managing player workload, ****les and injuries within the constraints of a 31 man squad, in normal test matches players would play through ****les or be replaced short term but because its just a pool game and the RWC squad restrictions are in place we have unusual changes happening and players are not being risked if they have a ****le.

I'm fine with the selections, they've obviously decided to rest Savea after 3 straight games. IMO he's still looking thin on form and down on pace despite scoring a bunch of tries.
Naholo gets another run, as does Nehe. This could be a straight shootout to see who gets that 14 jersey come the quarter final.
the key combination of aaron, dan, nonu, conrad is there

Lets put this to bed once and for all shall we! Why on earth people are worried about too may changes is beyond me. It doesnt seem to be just a misunderstanding of how players work loads need to be managed but people also seem to be ignoring/over-reacting to what has actually been going on.

So here are the facts:

By the time pool play ends the ABs will have played 4 games. Let's ring fence the Namibia game as that is clearly the game where the 2nd stringers by in large all played. So that leaves three games where the ABs could potentially use to work on combinations and field their best team. So, how many changes have they actually made?

Full Back: NONE
Wing: 1 change (+ 1 injury enforced change)
Centres: NONE (1 injury enforced)
The all important 8,9,10 combination: NONE
Loosies: NONE (1 injury enforced)
Locks: 1
Hooker: NONE
Props: 2

That is a grand total of 4 changes for change sake over the course of 3 games:
1) Roational of Savea to give him a rest, but my interpretation is that what they are really doing is creating a H2H battle for the 2nd wing spot between Naholo and NMS.
2) Rotation of Retallick to give him a rest - fair enough seeing as we only have 3 locks.
3&4) a rotation of the props - again propobably fair & warranted as it was very useful to see how that front row stacked up as starters

That is it - 4 changes!!

The rest (only 3) have been injury enforced/precautionary changes (Nonu (shoulder), McCaw (Thigh), & Naholo (who we all knew was out until game 3 anyway)).

So seriously what on earth are you guys on about?

 

[Mcfadden]

Most of the changes make sense to me and I don't have any issues If I was being picky, I'd really hope Vito and Crockett were there, like I have done all tournament, but at least Crockett is on the bench. I'm not exactly weeping into my cornflakes about it, lol. Who we have is who we have, and if we don't win the World Cup then we'll still have a nervous system in order to function and watch the next one! The Springboks, Wallabies, Ireland, France, any one of those teams will be tough, but it's not like they don't have any issues whatsoever themselves.

 

[nickdnz]

So seriously what on earth are you guys on about?

...ROTATION...CHANGES...TOO OLD...NO SOPOAGA!!!...PANIC!!!1!

About covers it.

 

[ABs2011]

Most of the changes make sense to me and I don't have any issues If I was being picky, I'd really hope Vito and Crockett were there, like I have done all tournament, but at least Crockett is on the bench. I'm not exactly weeping into my cornflakes about it, lol. Who we have is who we have, and if we don't win the World Cup then we'll still have a nervous system in order to function and watch the next one! The Springboks, Wallabies, Ireland, France, any one of those teams will be tough, but it's not like they don't have any issues whatsoever themselves.

For sure, I can understand some people calling for additional changes if the players they like havent been getting much of a look in, but its comments that suggest there is too much "stuffing around with combinations" and "chopping and changing" that are simply way off the mark. I feel like we are watching different games I'm not sure what people expect. The same team every single game with no precaution taken for injury?

By the way @Kiwi_ I hope you have taken a couple of those news feeds off your favourites list mate, you have been getting some bad info there huh!

 

[Kiwi_]

Just watched the press conference, Steve explains it pretty good. I still think Slade is a mistake considering his injury concerns pre-tournament. Anyhow congrats to Nonu, what a legend. Also, we will see how Dan plays cometh the hour before we start poking fun at people. @ABs2011 Yeah, I realized it was the NZherald, should have known better, wasn't really concentrating yesterday, got a fair bit on my plate atm.

- - - Updated - - -

...ROTATION...CHANGES...TOO OLD...NO SOPOAGA!!!...PANIC!!!1!

About covers it.

You really can be a sour arrogant douche sometimes.

Here let me try;

"Ahem, his tackling stats are slightly better to the inform said player and his other minor stat shows that he farted more in the oppositions face, so therefore he is the better than the said inform player rendering you a dumbass for even questioning this, even though all other aspects of his game are well under par which you can see from simply watching the game".