[2015 RWC] Pool B: South Africa vs. Samoa (26/09/2015)

[Sotavalta]

There is a massive difference between not supporting and criticizing.

Sure there is positive and negative (ITO intent) criticism and I'll admit I was guity of the latter just after the weekend but there is a culture of not taking sincere criticism on board in SA that holds us back and I'm not just talking about rugby.

I agree with this.

I am criticizing South Africa a lot and I know I am little to negative, but I will always support them even if they are playing ****.

My Team that I would like to see is:

1. Nykane
2. Strauss
3. JdP
4. Etzebeth
5. Lood

6. Louw
7. Burger
8. Vermeulen

9. FdP
10. Pollard
11. Habana
12. de Allende
13. Kriel
14. Mvovo
15. Wille Le Roux

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

What I think the team should look like:

1 Kitshoff
2 Du Plessis (I'll back him as this was his first poor game for the season)
3 Du Plessis (same, you could see he was hurt badly, I want that on the field)
4 Etzebeth
5 De Jager (Just keeps going)
6 Brussow (Louw hasn't been on his best this year, maybe the injury?)
7 Alberts (back after injury but we need his physical presence to be effective if *that* is how we are going to play)
8 Vermeulen (c) (Burger doesn't have the presence in contact Vermeulen does)
9 De Klerk (form scrummie in SA and best fit for the rest of our in-form backs IMO; lets drop the up and unders and kicks straight to the opp as we aren't fielding the players or executing that game plan well enough)
10 Pollard
11 Habana (he has work to do and has a history vs Samoa)
12 De Allende (things happen around him or after he has taken the ball up)
13 Kriel (the games he has been outside of DDA and with Pollard/Le Roux at 10/15 he was sensational. Lets see if we still have that)
14 Mvovo
15 Le Roux (I still have my reservations over Le Roux but he is our best bet and we can play a style of rugby that negates most of his poorer aspects somewhat)

16 Strauss
17 Nyakane (just to give the Beast a rest, you know)
18 Malherbe
19 PSdT
20 Burger
21 Reinach
22 Lambie
23 JPP

 

[The80sDogCancer]

Before the World Cup I said to a mate 'if I was South Africa I would be mixing the team around in the group games and try to get a 2nd place result as 2nd would be better in the scheme of things'. Now I'm not saying that South Africa purposely went out against japan to loose but perhaps something to think about.

Finishing 2nd would put South Africa on the easier side of the knockout rounds, they potentially would miss England or Australia or Wales and the all blacks until the final.

I think SA opening game loss to japan May work in their favour

 

[tompaton7]

Before the World Cup I said to a mate 'if I was South Africa I would be mixing the team around in the group games and try to get a 2nd place result as 2nd would be better in the scheme of things'. Now I'm not saying that South Africa purposely went out against japan to loose but perhaps something to think about.

Finishing 2nd would put South Africa on the easier side of the knockout rounds, they potentially would miss England or Australia or Wales and the all blacks until the final.

I think SA opening game loss to japan May work in their favour

If they were going to do that, it would've been the Scottish or Samoan game they would've thrown as they would be considered more likely pre tournament to beat everyone else. Remember they also picked up 2 bonus points so if they win the rest of their games with bonus points and Japan slips up in one game they will come first. Hell even if Japan won the rest of their games with no bonus point and the Saffas got BP wins in the rest of their matches they would through as top. Which would make a mockery of the bonus point system completely.

 

[Ospervat]

Before the World Cup I said to a mate 'if I was South Africa I would be mixing the team around in the group games and try to get a 2nd place result as 2nd would be better in the scheme of things'. Now I'm not saying that South Africa purposely went out against japan to loose but perhaps something to think about.

Finishing 2nd would put South Africa on the easier side of the knockout rounds, they potentially would miss England or Australia or Wales and the all blacks until the final.

I think SA opening game loss to japan May work in their favour

Not sure I follow the logic. They would inevitably meet England, Oz or Wales in the QF. Pool A is a tough group - too unpredictable who will finish 1,2.

 

[ABs2011]

Before the World Cup I said to a mate 'if I was South Africa I would be mixing the team around in the group games and try to get a 2nd place result as 2nd would be better in the scheme of things'. Now I'm not saying that South Africa purposely went out against japan to loose but perhaps something to think about.

Finishing 2nd would put South Africa on the easier side of the knockout rounds, they potentially would miss England or Australia or Wales and the all blacks until the final.

I think SA opening game loss to japan May work in their favour

Makes no sense I'm afraid mate.

First of all, as tompaton7 says if, and it's a big if, SA want to throw a game to get 2nd it would certainly not be the games against Japan. Second, whilst one side of the draw does look a touch easier (if things go to form), SA would look pretty stupid throwing a game only to be pitted against the winner of Pool A and risk being home before November. Never gonna happen.

Oh and the way I read it, SA chances of getting second in the pool now are pretty bloody slim. I think they either win the rest of their games and top the pool OR they lose one or more of the remainder of their games and they will be out. Several results would have to all fall into place for them to get second now.

 

[The80sDogCancer]

I'm not saying they purposely threw the game, it's clear they didn't what I was trying to say is it may work in their favour if it puts them into 2nd place. I think the wallabies will top group A and England 2nd.

Finishing 2nd would put them on the easier side of the knockout rounds. They would be Avoiding (most likely) England in the quarters and the all blacks in the semis.

If I was the boks I'd rather play the wallabies than England in the quarters and Ultimately avoiding the all blacks till the final would be a good outcome for them.

 

[Ospervat]

I'm not saying they purposely threw the game, it's clear they didn't what I was trying to say is it may work in their favour if it puts them into 2nd place

OK logically then if they win QF 4 they would face an easier side (France , Ireland , Arg) than AB's in the semi's. Then you would be correct.

 

[The80sDogCancer]

Also the loss will help keep SA under the radar even more and I wouldn't be writing them off, they are a class Team and I still think thy are one of the few teams capable of winning it. I'm actually going to put money on them as I would assume their odds have increased.

The boks have the talent and the players have the experience, they seem to be lacking confidence which can easily come back to full confidence with just one good win.

 

[Kiwi_]

Habana is no longer the force he used to be is

 

[chikwa chibwe]

Looking forward to this one . Of the boks try to play a game based simply on their physicality it will be a close match. If they play more rugby clinically with ball in hand . They win comfortably on the score board . But they will have to fight for it.
The whole world will be watching . With henycke Meyers record anything is possible !!

 

[TobesHodges]

Just need to play their best players, when is Vermuluan back fit, he is one of the best 8's in the world, and will make such a difference to the go forward of that pack..

 

[SomeOke]

15 Willie le Roux, 14 Bryan Habana, 13 Jean de Villiers (c), 12 Damian de Allende, 11 JP Pietersen, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Fourie du Preez, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Beast Mtawarira. Subs: 16 Adriaan Strauss,17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Frans Malherbe, 19 Lood de Jager, 20 Siya Kolisi, 21 Rudy Paige, 22 Morné Steyn, 23 Jesse Kriel

This is the team that I've seen floating about, much better if true but JdV still a concern, it really is John Smit all over again. HM obviously feels it's too late to change the captain at this stage.

 

[TRF_heineken]

15 Willie le Roux, 14 Bryan Habana, 13 Jean de Villiers (c), 12 Damian de Allende, 11 JP Pietersen, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Fourie du Preez, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Beast Mtawarira. Subs: 16 Adriaan Strauss,17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Frans Malherbe, 19 Lood de Jager, 20 Siya Kolisi, 21 Rudy Paige, 22 Morné Steyn, 23 Jesse Kriel

This is the team that I've seen floating about, much better if true but JdV still a concern, it really is John Smit all over again. HM obviously feels it's too late to change the captain at this stage.

Yup, that's the team they showed this morning on Supersport training...

Anyway, the announcement of the team will be made at 11:00 today. I will add it to the OP as soon as it's announced.

 

[Kiwi_]

South Africans have easily one of the best starting XV's in the world, it's their bench that has let them down the last few years. Perhaps they can work out a way to combat this, by starting less effective players in games and bringing on the right impact players and subs to see a game out.. I know this was put to practice a bit in the Japanese game, but too many starters were left on the bench and brought on too late.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

De Villiers and Matfield are set to continue though apparently for De Villiers this is his last chance..

I don't know, hey. With the last two games De Villiers started we lost to both Argentina and Japan for the first time in history. Our 100% win rate over Samoa just might also take a hit now. Its not just the players though its the game plan.

I'll support our guys but I have massive reservations about the way we have approached and keep on approaching this tournament from a selection, game plan and fitness perspective.

 

[TRF_heineken]

De Villiers and Matfield are set to continue though apparently for De Villiers this is his last chance..

I don't know, hey. With the last two games De Villiers started we lost to both Argentina and Japan for the first time in history. Our 100% win rate over Samoa just might also take a hit now. Its not just the players though its the game plan.

I'll support our guys but I have massive reservations about the way we have approached and keep on approaching this tournament from a selection, game plan and fitness perspective.

To be fair to Victor, he was one of the better players on the field against Japan. He made a lot of tackles and stole a few balls at the lineout. I don't think it's necessary to drop him yet. But with that said, it's hard to see Lood not getting a start either. He's at the moment our in form lock.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

To be fair to Victor, he was one of the better players on the field against Japan. He made a lot of tackles and stole a few balls at the lineout. I don't think it's necessary to drop him yet. But with that said, it's hard to see Lood not getting a start either. He's at the moment our in form lock.

Victor wasn't **** poor like De Villiers but he didn't put in close to the same shift De Jager did and that we could expect from Etzebeth on a good day. On line outs stolen there was just one and it was De Jager, not Matfield. Matfield did make more tackles but overall the bigger contribution came from De Jager and we ought not to have been defending constantly against Japan like we did. Our whole approach is wrong. One-off runners don't work, trust me, I'm a Stormers supporter. And kicks without any real chase should either go for space and/or distance. Things just don't look very convincing the last couple of games.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Victor wasn't **** poor like De Villiers but he didn't put in close to the same shift De Jager did and that we could expect from Etzebeth on a good day. On line outs stolen there was just one and it was De Jager, not Matfield. Matfield did make more tackles but overall the bigger contribution came from De Jager and we ought not to have been defending constantly against Japan like we did. Our whole approach is wrong. One-off runners don't work, trust me, I'm a Stormers supporter. And kicks without any real chase should either go for space and/or distance. Things just don't look very convincing the last couple of games.

Yeah true. But I think this will all change in the next game. I think our focus will be more on attack again and I hope Habana and JPP will chase Fourie Du Preez's kicks...

 

[TRF_heineken]

Bok team announced and added to the OP.

Bismarck not even in the matchday squad, Lood on the bench.