2014 Six Nations: England vs Ireland (Round 3)

[ruggabee]

+1 to that...

Maybe add Sexton on a good day.

I hate to say it, but BOD hasn't been "world class" for a couple of years to be honest. He's been getting by on ever more infrequent flashes of sublime skill and his reputation making space for others so he can put them through gaps rather than actually scaring the ***** out of defences with his own beating of defenders*.

*I know, not well worded - but you know what I mean. If a 20 year old unknown was playing like BOD had been, he wouldn't have been near as effective as the defence would just have targeted and closed him out.

I was thinking of adding Sexton but to me he is just a very good international player. Plays smart and does what is right but not someone that will register in my mind for years to come. Regarding BOD, I agree with you. I used to find it great that Ireland had a world class player but I find he has been riding off reputation for a good while now. Nations aren't afraid of him and only praise him due to respect for what he has done. If someone else had produced performances similar to him in the last two or more years they would have said he was anonymous. Sure he provides leadership and defensive organisation but the next crop needs to take on the reigns to take on that responsibility. He is not world class and only a matter of time for when a coach is willing to drop him for good.

mmm yeah never watched Superman, I was more into...playing the Playstation.

Crash team racing and Need for speed was good. Superman not so much. Just hearing Kevin Spacey randomly shouting WROOONG.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

What do you count as 'world class' then? Rankings, as in top 3 in the world? Or just general opinion?

 

[ruggabee]

What do you count as 'world class' then? Rankings, as in top 3 in the world? Or just general opinion?

I duno. I don't really think in numbers. I suppose maybe the affect they have on the game on an international stage.

edit. They really have to provide something special upon their core roles.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It does seem that after 2 games and a good game vs the ABs, roughly half the Irish team is now being elevated to "world class" status. Wales were doing this with their team last year claiming they were all world class and the only viable NH team. They then got their arses handed to them by the SH again.

Ireland are performing well but a lot of the players listed as world class aren't. They are good or previously world class (BOD) but that's it.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It does seem that after 2 games and a good game vs the ABs, roughly half the Irish team is now being elevated to "world class" status. Wales were doing this with their team last year claiming they were all world class and the only viable NH team. They then got their arses handed to them by the SH again.

Ireland are performing well but a lot of the players listed as world class aren't. They are good or previously world class (BOD) but that's it.

That's what most of us on here are saying, I'd say of our current team Kearney and O'Connell are world class, BOD and Heaslip have been during their careers and Sexton and Healy are getting there. It's all incredibly vague though and I haven't mentioned players who I think are the best in their positions in the tournament like Best who I would go on to classify as "top class".

 

[Amiga500]

Rob Kearney is not world class. Not even close!


Healy, POC and SOB are right up there. The rest are between good, very good, and great. But not world class.

 

[big ginger 8]

The real problem is that everyone has different definitions of world class!

 

[munstermuffin]

The real problem is that everyone has different definitions of world class!

That's probably the best way to put it

 

[lynam1104]

By my definition Buckley is world class. Thats right I think Buckley and Dan Carter are in the same bracket, suck on that kiwis.

 

[Amiga500]

The real problem is that everyone has different definitions of world class!

Yep... thats definitely one of the problems.

The other main problem is that everyone who has a different definition and opinion from me is obviously wrong... :lol:


The first step for youse to learn to come to terms with the depths of your wrong-ness is to first accept it...

Stage 1 is accepting absolute truths. Such as the following:

- Force = Mass x Acceleration
- Voltage = Current x Resistance
- Kinetic Energy = 0.5 x Mass x Velocity^2
- Mickey Linden was a better footballer than Charlie Redmond.
- Down are better than Kerry as Kerry have never beaten Down when it counts.
- Paul O'Connell may be Superman, but Mike McComish is Hyperman.
- Cork is full of langers.
- In relativistic conditions, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light in a vacuum.

That'll do as a first step... I don't want to turn your entire worlds upside down... :lol:

 

[Patchey]

'World Class' status has to be related to time. You can be a very good player who has a couple I stand out seasons and not be world class. If you're consistently good/excellent that's different.

 

[siochain]

Sticking up for my own, the way Rory Best is playing now I wouldn't hesitate to call him world class!

And Bowe

 

[Big Ewis]

I was thinking of adding Sexton but to me he is just a very good international player. Plays smart and does what is right but not someone that will register in my mind for years to come. Regarding BOD, I agree with you. I used to find it great that Ireland had a world class player but I find he has been riding off reputation for a good while now. Nations aren't afraid of him and only praise him due to respect for what he has done. If someone else had produced performances similar to him in the last two or more years they would have said he was anonymous. Sure he provides leadership and defensive organisation but the next crop needs to take on the reigns to take on that responsibility. He is not world class and only a matter of time for when a coach is willing to drop him for good.



Crash team racing and Need for speed was good. Superman not so much. Just hearing Kevin Spacey randomly shouting WROOONG.

there just aren't that many good all-around, complete 10's atm who are as efficient and I'm going with Sexton for my FH.
CTR was awesome.

 

[stus768]

Anyone read Nick Cains column in the Rugby Paper? Speaking about Lancasters reasoning behind not putting Ford on the bench. Which turns out to be complete crap. He claims that Ford has only just devloped himself as a 10 in the premiership yet says Goode is a viable 10 sub because he has played 1 full game at 10 for sarries this season!!!

When queried whether an away game against NZ was the best time to blood a new fly haf he responded "But equally when is? There are no friendlies are there?" Ummmm is this his actual thinking or is he just defending his decisions?

 

[Feicarsinn]

Yep... thats definitely one of the problems.

The other main problem is that everyone who has a different definition and opinion from me is obviously wrong... :lol:


The first step for youse to learn to come to terms with the depths of your wrong-ness is to first accept it...

Stage 1 is accepting absolute truths. Such as the following:

- Force = Mass x Acceleration
- Voltage = Current x Resistance
- Kinetic Energy = 0.5 x Mass x Velocity^2
- Mickey Linden was a better footballer than Charlie Redmond.
- Down are better than Kerry as Kerry have never beaten Down when it counts.
- Paul O'Connell may be Superman, but Mike McComish is Hyperman.
- Cork is full of langers.
- In relativistic conditions, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light in a vacuum.

That'll do as a first step... I don't want to turn your entire worlds upside down... :lol:

TFW describing physics in terms of forces instead of potentials.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

The real problem is that everyone has different definitions of world class!

Exactly! If the definition of world class is say, top 5 in the world in my opinion I would have a decent couple of Irish players there.

 

[Patchey]

Anyone read Nick Cains column in the Rugby Paper? Speaking about Lancasters reasoning behind not putting Ford on the bench. Which turns out to be complete crap. He claims that Ford has only just devloped himself as a 10 in the premiership yet says Goode is a viable 10 sub because he has played 1 full game at 10 for sarries this season!!!

When queried whether an away game against NZ was the best time to blood a new fly haf he responded "But equally when is? There are no friendlies are there?" Ummmm is this his actual thinking or is he just defending his decisions?

He is talking about the George Ford who won the LV Cup and Premiership with Leicester playing at 10 right?

Okay so he wasn't first choice for Prem games last season but ever so. He played some very high stakes games with Tigers and has, by any conceivable measure, improved as a player since moving to Bath. Goode on the other hand has never looked convincing in any way at 10 and, as you say, played one full game there this season.

I would never wish injury on a played but should Goode come down with a mild bout of flu before the Ireland game and force Ford to be included that might be for the best.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Interesting issue - personally I don't think world class can be related to whether they are top 5 etc because that would mean you cant call a player world class simply because theres lots of other great players in that position. SOB would not make it into a world top 5 simply because of the strength in depth that sanzar has there. Its got to be a mixture of your sjillset and ability to do things most others cannot, a measure of your impact on games at international level, and consistency.

If a few months ago we were *****ing about a players inability to get anything right, he surely cannot be considered world class and fir that reason I'm sorry to say Rory Best could never be considered in that bracket of player. Just go back a few months to the lions tour and best was a bit of a liability and nobody would dare suggest him for the test teams. Whereas world class players are straight on the team sheet regardless of form. If that's true of Best for Ireland, you'd have to say that its only because of a lack of tested alternatives.
So yeah, form over time is extremely important. Mike brown is playing exceptionally well and has been for a while but I wouldn't consider calling him world class unless hes still doing this in a years time.theres no science to it, just a sense.

At the same time I suppose you do have to relate estimations of class to the field of players out there. Take fly-half, where as ewis said there just are not that many rounded 10s. I would not hesitate to call sexton world class simply because he stands out so far above most 10s playing in the northern hemisphere, and even looking to the south, the sanzar nations tend to have a first choice 10 who is simply fat in front of other options - except perhaps in south Africa because the choice at fly half has more come down to preference of how to play the fame, seeing as lambie and goosen are easily as good as steyn in their own ways.

Same could almost be said of hooker, where the list of definitely world class guys is pretty sho

 

[Amiga500]

TFW describing physics in terms of forces instead of potentials.

I didn't want to go straight over yer heads....



and tell riker to f**k off with his eye-roll... he's little more than an extra that happens to be on screen quite often making too much noise and having very little substantial effect on proceedings... kinda like Ben Youngs...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I didn't want to go straight over yer heads....



and tell riker to f**k off with his eye-roll... he's little more than an extra that happens to be on screen quite often making too much noise and having very little substantial effect on proceedings... kinda like Ben Youngs...

Didn't he become a god at one point though?