2014 QBE Internationals [EOYT] England

[goodNumber10]

Ok so apart from the obvious, I'm very concerned with our defensive structure and that's causing some of the pressure at the moment.

We do not compete at the breakdown at all. We just don't and it's now getting more evident, we just fan out across the defensive line and provide numbers.

It's a very good tactic in that it makes it very hard to beat us, but we aren't turning the ball over to release pressure, we aren't releasing any pressure off the side, we are always playing in our half.

Add to the woeful handling off the forwards and the clogging up of the backline and we are a very disjointed outfit.

Farrell's defensive pattern was always about pressure on ball.

That only works of England can dominate the contact area on tackle.

Or clubs, except sarries, don't play that style of defence so I think we're struggling to transition.

 

[Wendigo7]

Farrell's defensive pattern was always about pressure on ball.

That only works of England can dominate the contact area on tackle.

Or clubs, except sarries, don't play that style of defence so I think we're struggling to transition.

Oh I know.

But any outball for that defence right now would be preferable.

 

[j'nuh]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...hange-policy-bring-Steffon-Armitage-No-7.html

I hope SL does not change his policy on Armitage. He's not worth opening up a can of worms for. There are plenty of options playing within the UK that can fetch, and Armitage has left a very sour taste in my mouth after the whole sevens fiasco.

Even if he moved back to the UK, I'd be tempted not to pick him for his insolence.

 

[goodNumber10]

Agree @j'nuh i would rather see Kvesic or some other young gun, like that Dave Seymour lad at Sale, given a crack.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Even if he moved back to the UK, I'd be tempted not to pick him for his insolence.

Same - he tried everything he could to run out for France.
Lancaster is very big on the culture of English rugby, so he shouldn't be playing someone who doesn't give two hoots about the shirt.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'm slightly confused as to why people are surprised Haskell didn't carry very much for England.
He's linked pretty well and has decent pace if he finds himself in open space but he simply isn't a powerhouse carrier. As much as he looks like he should be.

Kvesic and Ewers are far more effective with ball in hand.

 

[Peat]

Same - he tried everything he could to run out for France.
Lancaster is very big on the culture of English rugby, so he shouldn't be playing someone who doesn't give two hoots about the shirt.

Can't agree. Would love to, but can't.

Lancaster's job is to pick a team that wins and that is it. If the Kiwis can tolerate SBW's code hopping, we should be able to tolerate Steflon's emotional infidelity.

But I suspect Lancaster would trot out the culture excuse and ignore him. Lancaster's always been able to call him into the camp and claim his ability is exceptional circumstances, he has that power. He's cited fitness and bad timing before as the reasons he hasn't been picked.

My belief - Lancaster just doesn't want him but doesn't want to openly say so either. I mean, could Steflon be any further from the stereotypical Lancaster pick?

Even if he comes back to England, I reckon he'd not play him.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Lancaster's always been able to call him into the camp and claim his ability is exceptional circumstances, he has that power.

He clearly doesn't though.

I think you're being naive if you think "exceptional circumstances" doesn't have any strict qualifications, even if they are informal.
It's basically a gentleman's agreement between the PRL and RFU to never select any foreign based players unless 5 players are in a plane crash on their way to the RWC.

 

[Peat]

He clearly doesn't though.

I think you're being naive if you think "exceptional circumstances" doesn't have any strict qualifications, even if they are informal.
It's basically a gentleman's agreement between the PRL and RFU to never select any foreign based players unless 5 players are in a plane crash on their way to the RWC.

Possible; in which case he's an out and out liar, because that's not what he's said in public, although that is a tune that has changed since the beginning of his tenure and now in fairness.

Eh, whatever. He'd still probably ignore him whatever when he shouldn't, and that's the point; just maybe it has less meat behind it. But iirc, he told Armitage no guarantee of him making the EPS if he moved to Bath - or at least that's what google and the Mail are telling me - and that's pretty out there tbh.

 

[ratsapprentice]

As well there shouldn't - saying there is no guarantee isn't the same as saying he's guaranteed to not be selected.
Im not sure what you think Lancaster has said in the past which would make you think the "exceptional circumstances" are anything other than what I described above?

 

[j'nuh]

tbh, I'm not even sure how much I rate Armitage. He's clearly good, maybe even great. But is he the exceptional player that everyone claims him to be? I'm not sure there's a 7 anywhere in club rugby that is given a bigger arm chair ride by the rest of his pack.

I know that there are some late bloomers in rugby, but there are alarm bells ringing for me that he only started looking as impressive as he does at the age of 27 and after joining the biggest team in Europe.

So I have big doubts over whether he'd deliver for England...

 

[Peat]

tbh, I'm not even sure how much I rate Armitage. He's clearly good, maybe even great. But is he the exceptional player that everyone claims him to be? I'm not sure there's a 7 anywhere in club rugby that is given a bigger arm chair ride by the rest of his pack.

I know that there are some late bloomers in rugby, but there are alarm bells ringing for me that he only started looking as impressive as he does at the age of 27 and after joining the biggest team in Europe.

So I have big doubts over whether he'd deliver for England...

You mean around the age that most players hit their peak... who'd have thought it...

Pretty much every LI fan I know would baldly disagree he only started to look awesome upon joining Toulon, and I'd agree based on what I saw.

I don't want to say he'd definitely work. But if he was playing for one of England's heavyweight packs and playing like that, everyone would agree it would be utter insanity not to try him.

edit: Besides, lets be honest, he doesn't have to be exceptional to get into this back row.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Yeah but until that happens it's difficult to judge how good he is objectively.

Nick Kennedy didn't look out of place playing for Toulon either, but he floundered at Quins.
Likewise Bastareud's Toulon ability vs his international ability.

I don't know whether you saw his game for the "world XV" vs the Boks but he didn't look much cop vs an international side. Granted they were expected to lose but the way people talk about him you'd think he was capable of more than he did.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

To be fair, even Vunipolas carrying has looked pretty poor. If you make your forwards truck it up in obvious and laborious ways they will be double-teamed and it won't be productive. Its the same issue we have from 1 - 8 in terms of how we use our forwards, how we carry, and basically our entire structure. Put Haskell into a potential gap and he will break a tackle and try and offload.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Yeah but Haskell isn't a standout carrier in the premiership - it shouldn't be that surprising he didn't do it yesterday.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

True, but also at Wasps he's not use in that way. We have Smashley and Nathan Hughes to do that, and Haskells remit changes as a result. I agree its unsurprising, but I do think he has it in him to contribute with that area of his game too.

 

[ratsapprentice]

He can certainly offer more than wood, but if you want someone to carry into contact there are much better options.

 

[goodNumber10]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>George Ford talks about his first start, combining with Owen Farrell, copping big hits &amp; a special end to the match
<a href="https://t.co/wXGf0Z4M0s">https://t.co/wXGf0Z4M0s</a></p>&mdash; England Rugby (@EnglandRugby) <a href="https://twitter.com/EnglandRugby/status/536856444918693888">November 24, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[goodNumber10]

Aiming to keep the Farrell/Ford/Eastmond chat out of the Australia Thread:

Few papers this morning pretty much confirming Farrell will be dropped and Twelvetrees start alongside Ford.

I'm with the 36 fans. I was really hoping he'd kick on after his first few England caps. Sure, Eastmond is better but I like the idea of having 36 as an option as well.

So do we think this is them trying things out, or do we think Eastmond's England career is on the rocks?

 

[Patchey]

Aiming to keep the Farrell/Ford/Eastmond chat out of the Australia Thread:



So do we think this is them trying things out, or do we think Eastmond's England career is on the rocks?

Oops! (Probably a wise idea)

I really can't tell. I don't understand the logic of dropping Eastmond at all. I can't see why his career would be stalling suddenly. My only thought is that the coaches won't pair to comparatively small players at 10-12 and after 36 was decent off the bench they want to look at him again.