2014 QBE Internationals [EOYT] England

[TommiG88]

Oops! (Probably a wise idea)

I really can't tell. I don't understand the logic of dropping Eastmond at all. I can't see why his career would be stalling suddenly. My only thought is that the coaches won't pair to comparatively small players at 10-12 and after 36 was decent off the bench they want to look at him again.

I agree, I don't like us picking big players over skilled small players - feels very gatland esque.

 

[goodNumber10]

Oops! (Probably a wise idea)

I really can't tell. I don't understand the logic of dropping Eastmond at all. I can't see why his career would be stalling suddenly. My only thought is that the coaches won't pair to comparatively small players at 10-12 and after 36 was decent off the bench they want to look at him again.

I said the other day I wonder if there is still a bit of a hangover post 3rd test in regards to his defence.

I also think that maybe they are again looking for a 12 that can first and foremost give the forwards and scrumhalf a target, I think we'll see 12 carrying a lot more this week.

 

[Patchey]

I said the other day I wonder if there is still a bit of a hangover post 3rd test in regards to his defence.

I also think that maybe they are again looking for a 12 that can first and foremost give the forwards and scrumhalf a target, I think we'll see 12 carrying a lot more this week.

If it is still a hangover from the third test then that is pretty unfair. I also don't quite buy that if they were so worried about him, they wouldn't have just started 36 against NZ.

I hope you're wrong about a potential new approach to how we use our 12...

 

[goodNumber10]

If it is still a hangover from the third test then that is pretty unfair. I also don't quite buy that if they were so worried about him, they wouldn't have just started 36 against NZ.

I hope you're wrong about a potential new approach to how we use our 12...

Well, iirc, everyone was under the impression that Brad B would be back at 12 until Burrell got injured and he was moved to 13 - so 36 would be somewhat in keeping with that thinking. personally I think 36 has been in poor form but has started to play better for Gloucester, and off the back of last week I suppose they have decided to go with a genuine 12 over Farrell moved to 12.

So, even though it seems odd or unfair that Eastmond has been somewhat discarded I have a feeling that he was never really in their plans in the first place. :/

 

[Patchey]

Well, iirc, everyone was under the impression that Brad B would be back at 12 until Burrell got injured and he was moved to 13 - so 36 would be somewhat in keeping with that thinking. personally I think 36 has been in poor form but has started to play better for Gloucester, and off the back of last week I suppose they have decided to go with a genuine 12 over Farrell moved to 12.

So, even though it seems odd or unfair that Eastmond has been somewhat discarded I have a feeling that he was never really in their plans in the first place. :/

Yeah I think you're right, but it really does make sense. What is confusing me more is that Lancaster has always been VERY positive about Kyle...

Reading through some of Big Stu's comments yesterday I think we'll see:

Marler, Hartley, Wilson, Lawes (if fit), Attwood, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan; Youngs, Ford, May, Twelvetrees, Barritt, Watson, Brown.

Mullan, Webber, Brookes, Kruis, Haskell, Wigglesworth, Farrell, Yarde.

Solid and unimaginative. Hooper is going to have a field day with our back row.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Lancaster has also been positive about Farrell's performances over the last few weeks. Him being positive about something is a given.

I think the size issue plays second fiddle to the supposed kicking issue. They want someone with a kicking game at 12.
I think Kyle could be a very good kicker, he just doesn't have the experience (as we saw with the charge-down) yet.

Seen that some people (not on here, just in general) are ignoring the massive increase in effectiveness of our set-piece since Attwood came in and want to see Launch/Lawes again.
Nuts IMO.

 

[goodNumber10]

I very nearly mentioned the kicking point as well, but didn't thinking it would lead to a bit of an argument about Eastmond being able to kick or not - he can and does for Bath but he's not got a big wiper kick like Faz/36 so it's more little dinks back over the top and grubbers through etc... and i think England are looking to go 1st to 3rd.

having said that i don't recall BB or 36 doing those kind of kicks.

It's clearly not one specific thing but it seems he's not made a great impression on the coaches.

Agree with you about Attwood, he's been the standout forward for me.

 

[Patchey]

But when do we ever seen England use a 12s kicking game? Obviously 36 has one, but I can't remember him using it. Barritt doesn't really have one. Farrell was apparently kept on the pitch in the NZ so England would have two kicking options, but again I don't recall him doing much with the boot when he moved out there.

It's puzzling.

 

[McTallshort]

Yeah but Haskell isn't a standout carrier in the premiership - it shouldn't be that surprising he didn't do it yesterday.

No that would be.....Thomas Waldrom who is now in the england camp.

 

[goodNumber10]

yeah, i guess it's more about having a second kicking option stepping into 10 if Ford/Faz are at the bottom of a ruck, someone who can play the tactics/make the decision they would have.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I don't know what "1st to 3rd" means (receiver?).

He has started to do clearance kicks for Bath though - he can do it, remarkably well for someone who has only just begun to do it.
Having Ford and Henson as our 10's paired with our style of play somewhat limits the amount of kicking he's actually required to do though.

He's certainly got more of a kicking game than Barritt or Burrell.

 

[goodNumber10]

1st to 3rd = 1st 3rd of the pitch to the last 3rd of the pitch (dunno if i'm explaining that well).

agree about BB and LB. I'm intrigued to see if BB or Lb start on Saturday actually. Kuridrani out is a big plus for us.

 

[ratsapprentice]

1st to 3rd = 1st 3rd of the pitch to the last 3rd of the pitch (dunno if i'm explaining that well).

Ok. Simple.

Olyy... second from left.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He has started to do clearance kicks for Bath though - he can do it, remarkably well for someone who has only just begun to do it.

Eeeeeh? You think he went his RL career without being a decent kicker?
He was never really one for pin point bombs, but every back has to be a good clearer.

Ok. Simple.

Olyy... second from left.

Eh?
Dead image, and I don't get how I'm involved :huh:

 

[Patchey]

Is that DAVE SEYMOUR?


Edit: looks a bit round in the head to be him. But I can already see Kruis and there isn't another blonde but Haskell in the EPS. And it isn't Haskell.

Second look. It isn't Dave Seymour, it's Ross Harrisson I think? Quick google reveals Seymour is injured. Boo.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'm not suggesting he's only just started to kick full stop - but he has only just started kicking for territory and/or taking clearance kicks.
The thing he needs to learn is how much time he has before he gets charged down, and generally get back into the groove of kicking regularly.

Image is there for me - Ross Harrison training with the England forwards today.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ah, image still not loading for me.
Great to hear Ross is getting to train with the squad, though.
He's pretty far down the pecking order, when everyone's fit, but I think he's going to be an excellent loosehead in years to come (we just need to sign a tighthead so he can go back to playing there full time).

 

[Patchey]

Why have England stopped announcing the names of the young guys they've had training with the EPS? That hooker from Leeds was in a photo a few weeks back too. I remember from past IAs and 6N windows it being announced when guys like Watson and Daly were with the squad.

 

[j-dawg]

Played against Ross a few years ago at school level

 

[ratsapprentice]

They are just there for the scrummaging sessions - they just stand at the back, listen in and act as opposition when required.
Don't think they're involved in actual rugby sessions apart from warmups.

The Northampton pair of Dylan Hartley and Tom Wood are likely to return, with Rob Webber and James Haskell dropping to the bench. Meanwhile Rowntree expects second-row Courtney Lawes to recover from a knee injury to start against the Wallabies.

Burgess possibly making his debut on the bench vs Quins on Friday, too.