2014 QBE Internationals [EOYT] England

[ratsapprentice]

A back row of Ewers, Haskell and Morgan for me has the same breakdown ability as the current back row but that added power in the running play.

We're gonna see Clark, Morgan and Robshaw.

Pretty sure of it.

 

[goodNumber10]

We're gonna see Clark, Morgan and Robshaw.

Pretty sure of it.

why do you think clarke will leapfrog Haskell?

 

[TommiG88]

I've been defending Farrell to friends for the last year or so. Even I have seen how poor he has been in the last 2 games. He was inept at the weekend, kicking the ball out on the full is unforgivable when you have the wind in your sails.

To blame Watson on the hospital ball by Farrell is laughable. And to run a bit line for Attwood, all Attwood had to do was pass it to the right and Watson would have been in. Watson is only young so I'm not going to judge him on his first cap where he barely received any front foot ball.

Burgess should not be mentioned in this moment in time. He hasn't even played a game in Union!!!! Eastmond being too small for centre I also don't agree with, he played the most physical side in the world and didn't look out of his depth. What more do you want? Again, he had very little front foot ball. As soon as ford came on we looked so much more dangerous.

 

[ratsapprentice]

why do you think clarke will leapfrog Haskell?

Good point, don't think he will on second thoughts... I think we may see him on the bench, giving Vunipola a rest.
My main point was, we wont see anyone come in, I don't think... would be delighted to be wrong, however.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Farrell was rubbish.

 

[goodNumber10]

I've been defending Farrell to friends for the last year or so. Even I have seen how poor he has been in the last 2 games. He was inept at the weekend, kicking the ball out on the full is unforgivable when you have the wind in your sails.

Yeah, it's a good job Ford didn't do the exact same thing isn't it?

To blame Watson on the hospital ball by Farrell is laughable. And to run a bit line for Attwood, all Attwood had to do was pass it to the right and Watson would have been in. Watson is only young so I'm not going to judge him on his first cap where he barely received any front foot ball.

Utter b*ll*x. He's there because he's supposedly good enough (he is), but there were a number of defenders tracking across on the Attwood run and Watson would have been cleared into touch, he needed someone coming back on the angle.

Attwood literally had no options other than to keep going until contact came and then hope that opened space.

 

[TommiG88]

Yeah, it's a good job Ford didn't do the exact same thing isn't it?



Utter b*ll*x. He's there because he's supposedly good enough (he is), but there were a number of defenders tracking across on the Attwood run and Watson would have been cleared into touch, he needed someone coming back on the angle.

Attwood literally had no options other than to keep going until contact came and then hope that opened space.

How are players going to be given a chance then? Let's bring back Ashton, strettle and Cueto whilst we are at it. They weren't bad 5 years ago!

Ford kicked the ball out whilst in play, Farrell had a drop kick under zero pressure from players and still cocked it. You're defending a player with zero form and was by far our worst attacking player this weekend. His inability to pick a pass or a kick at the moment is killing backs. Care and Farrell look like they speak different languages by seeing how poor their communication was. I'm not including any of the pack as wood and Hartley did themselves little favours.

 

[goodNumber10]

How are players going to be given a chance then? Let's bring back Ashton, strettle and Cueto whilst we are at it. They weren't bad 5 years ago!

wtf are you even talking about?

Ford kicked the ball out whilst in play, Farrell had a drop kick under zero pressure from players and still cocked it. You're defending a player with zero form and was by far our worst attacking player this weekend. His inability to pick a pass or a kick at the moment is killing backs. Care and Farrell look like they speak different languages by seeing how poor their communication was. I'm not including any of the pack as wood and Hartley did themselves little favours.

Yeah, i find a selective analysis of the game is always best when talking out your backside as well.

Farrell is far from in form - as i have said - but he isn't anywhere near as bad as you lot are making out.

 

[TommiG88]

wtf are you even talking about?



Yeah, i find a selective analysis of the game is always best when talking out your backside as well.

Farrell is far from in form - as i have said - but he isn't anywhere near as bad as you lot are making out.

I give up, you obviously have a man crush or your andy Farrell. Seeing as most people on here think Farrell was crap, you're the only one defending him. Obviously you are correct.

My point with Watson is that it was his first cap. He's going to be nervous and shakey but when does a 1 cap winger tell the more experienced fly half to punt it down field? Never. You're a complete fool to think otherwise.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think Watson was right to cut back in on the Farrell run in his 22, and offer himself. Farrell obviously had no intention of kicking the ball and was crabbing to the touchine - if he stays wide then whoever has the ball last is getting shoved into touch. If he offers himself then he can get away from the touchline and hopefully buy an extra second or two for support to get there (+ Farrell guarding at a ruck will provide more resistance than Watson/offer a better a kicking option if we retain the ball at the ruck).
Realistically, though, whichever way you cut it Farrell was 100% in the wrong to not have cleared at first available opportunity. There was no chance him or Watson were making it out of the 22 so he should've pumped it into the stands. Very very lucky we only conceded 3pts and not 7.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Not really, i think what we saw happenwas they were going to move Faz to 12, bring Eastmond off, we saw the Medical guy talking to Farrell and he was indicating he was in a lot of pain - i think they held off whilst they decided if they should either move May and Barritt in one and bring Faz and Eastmond off, or leave Eastmond on and just walk Faz.

And would that have been a good idea? No. Farrell not playing very well, Eastmond not had a great deal to work with,
but made an excellent break demonstrating he can get us on the front foot...and the coaches plan to Take Eastmond off and put Farrell at 12 so we can decisively kill all go-forward ability we have in the midfield? This is a terrible terrible idea.

Penalties don't mean he didn't play well.

4 penalties mean you can't possibly be rated a 7 out of 10. If you disagree you shouldn't be a coach because I'm pretty sure Rowntree/lancaster won't stand for this either. Lawes will likely be on the bench for Samoa.

 

[goodNumber10]

I give up, you obviously have a man crush or your andy Farrell.

Seeing as most people on here think Farrell was crap, you're the only one defending him. Obviously you are correct.

No you're right I should only agree with the general opinion of the forum at all times, lets have a forum that only agrees and never challenges each other and never discusses differing opinions or offers other scenarios and observations to that of the sky sports pundits.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure i said he wasn't playing well and Ford should have started this game and that i'd sit him out next week.

What i am saying is he didn't play as badly as you are all making out (I'll do a player analysis this week). I said he started making errors later on and i felt that was down to match fitness.

You guys are so intent on one little detail within this that you've ignored literally everything else I've said as to why our attack is stifled.

My point with Watson is that it was his first cap.

It was his second cap.

He's going to be nervous and shakey

then maybe he wasn't ready.

but when does a 1 cap winger tell the more experienced fly half to punt it down field? Never. You're a complete fool to think otherwise.

Aye, you're right. How daft of me to think a winger should come into the international set up, play to his potential and do what he was supposed to.

Even more stupid to believe that someone should react to a scenario that was unfolding in front of him correclty... Your absolutely right he should just run into a brick wall because he doesn't want to say anything.

 

[goodNumber10]

And would that have been a good idea? No. Farrell not playing very well, Eastmond not had a great deal to work with,
but made an excellent break demonstrating he can get us on the front foot...and the coaches plan to Take Eastmond off and put Farrell at 12 so we can decisively kill all go-forward ability we have in the midfield? This is a terrible terrible idea.

Did i say it was a good idea? Did i say Faz shouldn't have been taken off?

Pretty sure i didnt', i was merely pointing out that he didn't refuse to come off, and that the reaosn he stayed on another couple of plays was probably so they could re-organise. having said that in that time he put in the best kick of the whole game outside of Lambies chip.

penalties mean you can't possibly be rated a 7 out of 10. If you disagree you shouldn't be a coach because I'm pretty sure Rowntree/lancaster won't stand for this either. Lawes will likely be on the bench for Samoa.

Surely that depends on if you as a coach agree with the penalties against your player or not. I don't think GR will be too critical of what Lawes got pinged for.

I agree though Lawes will sit out next week, but it won't be as punishment or because he was dropped.

I think Watson was right to cut back in on the Farrell run in his 22, and offer himself. Farrell obviously had no intention of kicking the ball and was crabbing to the touchine - if he stays wide then whoever has the ball last is getting shoved into touch. If he offers himself then he can get away from the touchline and hopefully buy an extra second or two for support to get there (+ Farrell guarding at a ruck will provide more resistance than Watson/offer a better a kicking option if we retain the ball at the ruck).
Realistically, though, whichever way you cut it Farrell was 100% in the wrong to not have cleared at first available opportunity. There was no chance him or Watson were making it out of the 22 so he should've pumped it into the stands. Very very lucky we only conceded 3pts and not 7.

If he'd trod water and come from some depth he would have been able to run a switch much sooner than when he did and come open. He didn't back off, and it's the man coming forwards call.

I'll try to pull some video together in the next couple of days to illustrate what i'm saying about Farrell, and possibly this incident (unless it makes me look like a muppet of course )

**** ah, b*gger, sorry double post****

 

[Wendigo7]

Just got back from Florida.

Bournemouth is insanely cold right now! Florida was 29 degrees from 1st November to 16th... it's abysmal here and one of the reasons why I will move to Miami and Sydney next year.

Back to the matches, I haven't seen them but I won't lie in that I pictured these results coming frankly.

Farrell doesn't communicate and run a game. That's a big issue of his game. People talk about his steel and determination, BUT, I think it's got to the point where Care is losing confidence as are the 12 and 13 outside Farrell. This has been going on adnauseum since he has played. He has alot of talents, communicating and game management he's poor to non existent.

Care does well at Quins because they play a style that A. Suits Him and B. Evans tells him what to do. A pre requisite for any 10 is telling the 9 what his options are.

There is another slight issue though. We clearly have ascendancy now against the majority at Set Piece. Ruck lacks but for me it's the direction/game management that is lacking. After 2 phases generally we have in attacking phases, we just don't know what we want to do with the ball and the short times we do it's poorly executed.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Did i say it was a good idea? Did i say Faz shouldn't have been taken off?

Pretty sure i didnt', i was merely pointing out that he didn't refuse to come off, and that the reaosn he stayed on another couple of plays was probably so they could re-organise. having said that in that time he put in the best kick of the whole game outside of Lambies chip.

No, you didn't say it was a good idea but based on previous comments you felt that Fazlets selection was justified, so, extrapolating from that, you might not have a problem with Farrell being kept on. In any case, i personally am irritated that Ford wasn't brought on sooner(and Fazlet brought off) rather than any perception of him refusing to come off. That's just idle speculation.

Surely that depends on if you as a coach agree with the penalties against your player or not. I don't think GR will be too critical of what Lawes got pinged for.

I agree though Lawes will sit out next week, but it won't be as punishment or because he was dropped.

**** ah, b*gger, sorry double post****

Not really, not when the penalties you give away are flagrant and plain stupid- like the one where Lawes attempted to do precisely what Robshaw had tried to do 3 seconds before and been told to get the **** out by Walsh. I'm also not sure what evidence you have for thinking that GR will turn a blind eye to those penalties...

 

[goodNumber10]

No, you didn't say it was a good idea

You are right, i didn't.

but based on previous comments you felt that Fazlets selection was justified,

No, i said i understood it, i said clearly last week i'd pick Ford as i felt he was playing better.

so, extrapolating from that, you might not have a problem with Farrell being kept on.

Did i say that he should've stayed on?

In any case, i personally am irritated that Ford wasn't brought on sooner(and Fazlet brought off) rather than any perception of him refusing to come off. That's just idle speculation.

Yeah, ford was amazing when he came on.

***edit, that's not to say i think Ford is gash, i just think the england team were not playing brilliantly

'm also not sure what evidence you have for thinking that GR will turn a blind eye to those penalties...

I just clearly told you why i don't think Lawes will get into too much trouble for it.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

You are right, i didn't.



I just clearly told you why i don't think Lawes will get into too much trouble for it.

...And I just clearly told you why he probably will - you ignored the point as you tend to ignore all things not fitting with your conclusions.

 

[goodNumber10]

...And I just clearly told you why he probably will - you ignored the point as you tend to ignore all things not fitting with your conclusions.

I didn't ignore anything, what do you want me to say? I clearly said I'm not sure Rowntree will agree with the penalty decisions, you say he will. Do i now have to counter with another point?

You clearly think they are all legit stupid penalties i'm not so sure they are. what else do you want?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If he'd trod water and come from some depth he would have been able to run a switch much sooner than when he did and come open. He didn't back off, and it's the man coming forwards call.

I'll try to pull some video together in the next couple of days to illustrate what i'm saying about Farrell, and possibly this incident (unless it makes me look like a muppet of course )

Fair enough!

From my recollection, which was only watching it live, Farrell went around the two chasers and started crabbing to the touchline - Watson would've been anticipating a kick so kept close, but onside, ready to chase. Farrell kept on running so Watson went in field to offer an option so Farrell didn't just run in to touch.

The whole situation was a bit of a mess.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I didn't ignore anything, what do you want me to say? I clearly said I'm not sure Rowntree will agree with the penalty decisions, you say he will. Do i now have to counter with another point?

You clearly think they are all legit stupid penalties i'm not so sure they are. what else do you want?

well if someone presents counter evidence that the penalties were indeed a bit thick, one would normally consider this and reevaluate the position, or at least discuss the scenario..

Simply reasserting your position doesn't really help..