[2014 Mid-Year Tests] Wales

[Benz]

Yeah well i saw people are starting to post these and im just going to join the crew and make one for wales.​

well for this season its been up and down for wales we started well with basic errors which cost us one try vs italy. then we played ireland wales were awful they weren't switched on. we then played France who weren't at they're best and we did score some good tries against them and won a good match for wales. then we played england and it shows that Rhys Webb and Rhys Priestland weren't the best 9 and 10 for wales so clearly we should start mike phillips and Dan Biggar and we lost because wales didn't get much opportunity's to score as webb i felt didn't pass the ball quick enough and priestland has an obsession with kicking it 10 meters away from the half-way line when we have the players who can score or create scoring opportunity's and last off all the scotland match when wales demolished a 14 man team (thanks alot hogg).

so its a tour to south africa i see. not an easy game but can wales have a chance off winning ? of course they do but not if they played like they did in the england match but just to clarify the dates off the matches unfortunately there are only 2:

South Africa vs Wales
14 June 2014, 17:05 SAST (UTC+02)
Growthpoint Kings Park, Durban, South Africa

South Africa vs Wales
21 June 2014, 17:05 SAST (UTC+02)
Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit, South Africa​

so yeah good luck wales, hope you win!

 

[Draggs]

So is Liam Williams going to be on his best behaviour? He's got guts if he fancies himself against the duPs when in Durban.

 

[Patchey]

So is Liam Williams going to be on his best behaviour? He's got guts if he fancies himself against the duPs when in Durban.

I hope he isn't in a way, I'd pay to see that!

 

[dullonien]

I've always said that I don't mind a player who's willing to front up and even give a little ****le. However, Liam Williams needs to find that balance, because he can easily step over the line. He showed against Scotland what he can bring, something that's been missing with Halfpenny at fullback, that natural ability to break the line from deep which Halfpenny hasn't mastered yet.

As for the type of side we'll be putting out, I wouldn't be unhappy with something like:

01 Paul James. Strong scrummager, and gives Gethin a chance to get himself fully fit after a few years of ****ling injuries.
02 Ken Owens. Hibbard needs a rest imo, and Owens gives us a more stable platform in the lineout.
03 Samson Lee. Again, Adam needs a rest. Against SA, scrummaging is hugely important and Lee is a stronger scrummager than Rhodri Jones. Rhodri will likely get the nod though.
04 Jake Ball. Ball has been impressive for Wales, and it gives a chance for AWJ to recuperate.
05 Luke Charteris. Getting better with game-time after his injury. Important to Wales' lineout.
06 Dan Lydiate. Needs more game-time to get back to his very best. Certainly improved over the course of the 6 nations after looking rusty in the AI's.
07 Justin Tipuric. Warburton will likely be injured, giving Tips a well deserved chance to start.
08 ?? Can we risk resting Faletau? He's played a lot of rugby, but he's a very fit bloke. Ryan Jones at 8 doesn't fill me with confidence, certainly a blindside nowadays. Dan Baker, Morgan Allen or Ieuan Jones could be options, but very inexperienced.

09 Rhys Webb/Rhodri Williams/Gareth Davies/Lloyd Williams. I'd rest Phillips, but I still have no idea who's our second best.
10 Dan Biggar. Our best option by miles. Metronomic place kicker could be key.
11 George North. Another who could maybe do with a rest, but seemed to struggle more with his decision making and execution than his physical condition.
12 Jamie Roberts. After a number of injuries, he needs more game-time. Wouldn't be against giving Ashley Beck or Cory Allen (if fit) a crack at some stage.
13 Jon Davies. Desperately needs game-time to return to his best.
14 Alex Cuthbert. Didn't play too well in the 6 nations. If Eli Walker is fit, I'd be tempted to give him a debut.
15 Liam Williams. With Byrne not on Gats' radar any more, Liam Williams is the only real option. Played very well v Scotland, adding something to our attacking game.

16 Emyr Phillips. Played well for the Scarlets in Ken Owens' absence.
17 Rhys Gill. Is he injured? Rob Evans could be another option, prefer to give him a try than Bevington who's gone backwards this season.
18 Rhodri Jones.
19 Ian Evans. Quality operator, but needs to keep his discipline in check.
20 Aaron Shingler. If Ryan doesn't start, then he would make sense on the bench.
21 One of the SH's not starting.
22 James Hook. Don't see the point of having Priestland on the bench. Hook offers far more versatility, and opens up space from someone exciting at 23.
23 Eli Walker / Halam Amos / Jordan Williams. Still unsure about Jordan Williams, but he would certainly offer something different, and could cover wing and fullback.

 

[Draggs]

Halfpenny doesn't have a problem attacking. Did fine for Lions in the third test, seen him do it for the Blues. Wales prefer to kick as a return rather than run. It's down to the coaching.

 

[dullonien]

Halfpenny doesn't have a problem attacking. Did fine for Lions in the third test, seen him do it for the Blues. Wales prefer to kick as a return rather than run. It's down to the coaching.

You could well be right. I do think that Halfpenny still has plenty to learn about attacking play from fullback. The breaks he tends to make are more similar to those of a winger, standing in the line. I always prefer a fullback to hit the line from deeper, where he can first scan the defence and pick a weak spot. It's the same problem I have with Hook playing at 15.

I do think that Wales' tactics are holding him back somewhat, with an obsession with only playing in the right areas of the field. But there did seem to be a marked difference in the Scotland match (even before they went down to 14) with Liam Williams more prepared to attack a kick sent his way. Maybe Gatland had reviewed the tactics somewhat after the England game which helped, difficult to know.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Oddly enough I see SA have nothing to gain ITO IRB ranking points; SA is currently 8.64 points ahead of Wales but at home that jumps to effectively 11.64 (with the home advantage factored in as per their calculations) which is more than the 10 point mark at which the higher ranked team gets nada for winning even if by a landslide.

I suppose SA will not have the services of Fourie du Preez so I see this as the perfect opportunity to get our 2nd choice settled against good opposition. I have no idea who that is though. I will get physically sick if Pienaar gets the nod again. Hougaard just doesn't fit the Bulls' and SA's "gameplan"... so Reinach or get Kockott in finally since he seems more mature? Faf de Klerk as a bolter? PvZ has had no game time, McLeod is too hit and miss (more miss than not), Pretorius too old and too much of a liability in defence for test rugby, I still have no idea what HM sees in Schreuder (and I'm a WP supporter).. the cupboard is getting thin..

 

[TRF_heineken]

Oddly enough I see SA have nothing to gain ITO IRB ranking points; SA is currently 8.64 points ahead of Wales but at home that jumps to effectively 11.64 (with the home advantage factored in as per their calculations) which is more than the 10 point mark at which the higher ranked team gets nada for winning even if by a landslide.

I suppose SA will not have the services of Fourie du Preez so I see this as the perfect opportunity to get our 2nd choice settled against good opposition. I have no idea who that is though. I will get physically sick if Pienaar gets the nod again. Hougaard just doesn't fit the Bulls' and SA's "gameplan"... so Reinach or get Kockott in finally since he seems more mature? Faf de Klerk as a bolter? PvZ has had no game time, McLeod is too hit and miss (more miss than not), Pretorius too old and too much of a liability in defence for test rugby, I still have no idea what HM sees in Schreuder (and I'm a WP supporter).. the cupboard is getting thin..

I am very curious to see what type of team HM will pick. at lock the big question is if Victor will make a comeback as PSDT has been ruled out for the entire season, Etzebeth might not be fit in time, and Andries Bekker will be unavailable. Leaving just Victor and Flip as well as Franco van der Merwe of SA based Springbok Locks. We could even have the situation that Victor and Bakkies might join up.

At scrumhalf, I think HM must get the young guns in, and Reinach as well as Faf of the Lions have been the best so far in the tournament.

There is no reason why we can't have a top player from 1 to 23 representing us. even with injuries and overseas based contracts stipulations.

Also, I see the Kings are in talks of hosting a mid-week game for Wales.

 

[goodNumber10]

I am very curious to see what type of team HM will pick. at lock the big question is if Victor will make a comeback as PSDT has been ruled out for the entire season, Etzebeth might not be fit in time, and Andries Bekker will be unavailable. Leaving just Victor and Flip as well as Franco van der Merwe of SA based Springbok Locks. We could even have the situation that Victor and Bakkies might join up.

At scrumhalf, I think HM must get the young guns in, and Reinach as well as Faf of the Lions have been the best so far in the tournament.

There is no reason why we can't have a top player from 1 to 23 representing us. even with injuries and overseas based contracts stipulations.

Also, I see the Kings are in talks of hosting a mid-week game for Wales.

PSDT is a big loss, probably more than Etzebeth would be imho.

At 9 i never understood why he passed up krokett (or however it's spelt)

 

[TRF_heineken]

PSDT is a big loss, probably more than Etzebeth would be imho.

At 9 i never understood why he passed up krokett (or however it's spelt)

Kockott - He has a very bad attitude and when he played in SA he had a tendency to not keep his emotions in check. I personally never liked his smug face. We have more than enough great scrumhalves in SA than Kockott.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

PSDT is a big loss, probably more than Etzebeth would be imho.

I am very curious to see what type of team HM will pick. at lock the big question is if Victor will make a comeback as PSDT has been ruled out for the entire season, Etzebeth might not be fit in time, and Andries Bekker will be unavailable. Leaving just Victor and Flip as well as Franco van der Merwe of SA based Springbok Locks. We could even have the situation that Victor and Bakkies might join up.

Etzebeth is key to SA because of his line-out work at no.2 if nothing else but to an extent I agree that PSdT is the bigger loss if only for the timing; Etzebeth has solidified his selection while PSdT still has to prove himself at test level and could've done with the exposure to an opposition such as Wales who squared up exceedingly well with our pack back in November.

So who do we have? Flip seems to be a must. I've never much liked him but I have to say he has been very impressive since getting constant starts. Vic and Bakkies? Sjoe... I don't know. I'd rather have someone like Franco van der Merwe or Lood de Jager to see how they go at test level rather than see if Bakkies or Vic can even manage test level because they will certainly not help out further down the road and we don't NEED extra "experience" with the rest of the pack fit and firing.

At scrumhalf, I think HM must get the young guns in, and Reinach as well as Faf of the Lions have been the best so far in the tournament.

At 9 i never understood why he passed up krokett (or however it's spelt)

Kockott - He has a very bad attitude and when he played in SA he had a tendency to not keep his emotions in check. I personally never liked his smug face. We have more than enough great scrumhalves in SA than Kockott.

Agreed Faf and Cobus have been the form SA 9's and by some distance. I wouldn't mind either getting a call up. Hougaard has the inside track of the 9's based in SA but has looked uncomfortable. Maybe the Oscar trial looming so large in SA having an effect; I suppose he might even still be called up to the stands? Pienaar should just not get another chance. On Kockott, sure he has that reputation in SA but has had a lot of time to cool off and mature which he seems to have done. I think he'd fit well within our structures. Oh, well, we've not played better players than him in the past.

Apart from Etzebeth and PSdT I am very sad Arno Botha is out. He is the man for the no.20 Bok jersey IMO and hasn't had the time to prove it.

Oosthuizen is another injury concern :/

Another interesting question will be what the centers look like.. we have JdV as captain, Jaque Fourie still saying he is interested in RWC 2015, Frans Steyn back in some sort of form, Serfontein and Engelbrecht still being brought through and I think a guy like De Allende could work very well for the Bokke. If Paul Jordaan weren't injured he'd have had his backers for good reason as well. It's certainly great to have so many options suddenly (JdJ just doesn't fit) but now to get the balance right..

I really think for June we shouldn't bother with the overseas based players so no Habana, Fouries, M Steyns or even Flouw for me.. and certainly no Pienaar to ruan our backline again; I couldn't help myself.



PS: should we maybe rename this thread Wales and SA seeing as we that basically that this June or should we move the SA discussion to a new thread for SA itself?

 

[dullonien]

Apparently Gatland is considering a probables v possibles match before the SA tour. What sides would people like to see?

Mine would be (probables in bold):

01 Paul James v Rob Evans
02 Richard Hibbard v Ken Owens
03 Rhodri Jones v Samson Lee
04 Alun-Wyn Jones v Jake Ball
05 Luke Charteris v Ian Evans
06 Dan Lydiate v Aaron Shingler
07 Justin Tipuric v Sam Lewis
08 Toby Faletau v Dan Baker

09 Mike Phillips v Rhys Webb/Rhodri Williams/Gareth Davies
10 Dan Biggar v Owen Williams/ James Hook
11 George North v Eli Walker
12 Jamie Roberts v Ashley Beck
13 Jon Davies v Cory Allen
14 Alex Cuthbert v Hallam Amos/Hanno Dirksen
15 Liam Williams v Jordan Williams

I think I've decided that the two players that should be rested for the tour is Gethin Jenkins and Adam Jones. Both are the oldest members of the squad, and need nurturing through till the WC if we want them at their very best. Gethin has had so many ****ling injuries over the past 3-4 years, and could do with a chance to get fully fit. Adam has simply played a lot of rugby, and needs some conditioning over the summer. The other members of the squad who have also played a lot of rugby with the Lions tour last year, such as Hibbard, AWJ, Faletau, Phillips, North and Cuthbert, should be young enough to recover after the tour, although I wouldn't be against Hibbard and AWJ being rested.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

With this Probables v Possibles game on May 30th, does it fall outside the IRB window? I mean the Prem, and Top 14 will still be running at that point - North will almost certainly be playing the in the Prem Final. It's unlikely that Bath/Racing Metro/Perpignan will be in the finals, but does that mean the player will be available?

 

[TheSaffycen]

If I was SA I would bring kockott in because there is talk that France want to cap him. And why is pienaar so bad for SA when he is amazing for Ulster?

 

[Big Ewis]

If I was SA I would bring kockott in because there is talk that France want to cap him. And why is pienaar so bad for SA when he is amazing for Ulster?

yep he's eligible for France starting July/August. Which is a bit outrageous, the guy's a Saffa, he had a career in S.A. before coming to France....but anyways, he is. I think South Africa would be that much stronger with him in their lineup, at LEAST on the bench. He would add yet another dynamic to that XV, and there isn't a team in the world he doesn't deserve to play in, like I said at very least as the backup SH, at LEAST.

I think it's a case of very bad first impression for the saffa fans and staff, not sure how bad what he's done there was, or how founded it really is, but he's been brilliant in Castres continuously.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I think he could be THE BEST scrum-half in the world. France don't particularly need him as they have Parra and the young Montpellier guy. weirdly South Africa could really use him Hougaard hasn't been at his best for a couple of years and you can't count on Du Preez to keep turning up every so often.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

As cockerill says in this article about O.Williams (maybe taken out of context)

"He is starting at a good club, while the other two contenders are playing for the Scarlets and the Ospreys."

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Williams-job-Wales/story-20837067-detail/story.html

 

[Big Ewis]

Yeah France are fine there, in fact the problem is choice, not a lack of choice...even Doussain has been horribly misrepresented at the highest stage some weeks ago. Everybody sees the worst half of Rugby he's ever played at the 6N, nobody sees what he does for Toulouse all year long or remembers the very good performance he had last summer in NZ.

But yeah Saffycen, we had a thread some time ago about the best SH in the world atm, and I was hesitating to vote for Kockott as the best. I think Draggs agreed.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can't see SA being bothered by Kockott. He's a complete tw**, and they've got players in SA to choose from rather than having to work around a player on the other side of the world's club commitments.

 

[Big Ewis]

why is he such an ass ??
I know he's got a chicken farm...in no relation to being an ass, just sayin...