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[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (2nd Test)

If you are going to criticise the referee in a match or question his rulings (and you do so frequently) then Law discussions become an inevitable consequence of that. As such, Law discussions that pertain to a match belong in the match thread.

If you don't like law discussions, then don't read them or participate in them.

Lastly, who the hell are you to decide what others can and cannot discuss in any particular thread? Others here have told me that they appreciate the insights from an experienced referee. Just because you don't doesn't give you the right to dictate to others what they can and cannot do here.

You are misunderstanding the reasoning behind me saying take it to the law thread, there was a discussion elsewhere and daggs said let's get one going, so we did..... As I said in the law thread its not exclusive but to get the thread going it needs substance so my comment is to encourage people to get it going not to discourage people discussing things.

The rest of your post is just more pompous guff.

Regardless you are completely over reacting (again) and deliberately looking for an argument with me (again).

I'd point out what I really think of you but apparently you'll report me to the police (shivers in fear).

Oh well.
 
But typically players who get back to their feet will raise their arms in the air to indicate that they have released the tackler, before going back in? It looks to me as if Ben never released from the tackle?
 
Has he been particularly 'on' his game since his sabbatical? Or am I being harsh because I'm expecting Demi-God style performances from him?

Be interesting to see how sharp (or not) Carter is when he returns.

It's a fair comment, we do hold him to some incredibly high standards.
 
Lastly, who the hell are you to decide what others can and cannot discuss in any particular thread? Others here have told me that they appreciate the insights from an experienced referee. Just because you don't doesn't give you the right to dictate to others what they can and cannot do here.

I like the point of view and it is always from the letter of the book which helps my rugby knowledge, keep it up :)

You are misunderstanding the reasoning behind me saying take it to the law thread, there was a discussion elsewhere and daggs said let's get one going, so we did..... As I said in the law thread its not exclusive but to get the thread going it needs substance so my comment is to encourage people to get it going not to discourage people discussing things.

I think you don't like it in threads as it proves a lot of what you say wrong, common theme I see here is you don't like being wrong and certainly will ignore factual evidence or refuse to discuss points you know you can't justify.

But typically players who get back to their feet will raise their arms in the air to indicate that they have released the tackler, before going back in? It looks to me as if Ben never released from the tackle?

Looked like he let go to me, was touch and go but it was legit.
 
I think you don't like it in threads as it proves a lot of what you say wrong, common theme I see here is you don't like being wrong and certainly will ignore factual evidence or refuse to discuss points you know you can't justify

Lol.
 
Fading, lol

The All Blacks aura is fading, fading, fading...

Fading... but 16 wins in a row & a full trophy cabinet. Still early days yet, the Black machine is still cranking up through the gears. We will see some younger players get a run soon so that will add more suspense to the games.

If we keep winning/lose we will hear "peaked too soon". So predictable.:D
 
But typically players who get back to their feet will raise their arms in the air to indicate that they have released the tackler, before going back in? It looks to me as if Ben never released from the tackle?

Jeez, so now everybody has to raise their arms and swear allah akbar everytime you tackle someone! I'll remember to tell Ben this next time I see him.:rolleyes:
 
Right, so I've watched the game now:
How is that not a penalty against Ben Smith when he takes down Tuilagi after his 70m run? There's no clear release: He has at least one hand on him at all times before going for the ball.
Genuine question.
Even if he didn't jackle the ball (looks like he did) he still got up and cleared out Brown, without "releasing" Tuilagi.




Brown is clearly held up for his try as well. No doubt in my mind.
Maybe the referee's felt sorry for him because Brown could've easily scored if he hadn't have cut back inside.

It's history now & I thought he did everything right. What is more amazing is the shocked look on the faces of the crowd in the background of the photos.

Also, the guy on the sideline crouching down is the same guy who tackled the streaker - am I right?
 
Ok so after watching the game a couple of times now I'm thinking a few England players need to be rested . Really noticeable that a long season has got to them Brown in particular looked fooked
My team for next week would be

1. Marler
2. Hartley
3. Wilson
4. Lawes
5. Parling
6. Haskell
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola/Morgan (half each)
9. Care
10. Burns
11. Yarde
12. Eastmond
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton (would much prefer rokoduguni)
15. Foden
 
Re-watching the 2nd test and it's clear to me the difference in the decision making by the ABs is first class. England players ATM don't have that instinct to make the right decisions in the crucial moments. Some examples:

1. 36 ignoring a 2 man overlap on the left to pass inside to Wood??!!! To rub salt into the wound his poorly executed pass is next to impossible to pick up, as it's thrown to round Wood's ankles. From there Rettalick picks it up and from there the AB players pass it quickly and efficiently right to left through the hands. Cruden exploits a gap between Wilson and Morgan, who get caught in the outside channel and sets up Savea, who in turn passes to Bin Smuth for the try. Just so, so simple and the AB players are on the same wavelength. England could have done the same, but for poor decision making.

2. The real turning point for me is Tuilagi's run at the end of the first half. Again poor decision by both Tuilagi and Brown to not run together. Tuilagi should have run towards the goal posts to fix BS A and Brown should have run a better support line instead of running away from Tuilagi, so he had an option to pass to. Credit to BS for the tackle and turnover, but a real chance blown to score a converted try and lead 17-3 at halftime, instead of giving away a penalty and going in 10-6 up. It would have changed the momentum of the match completely.

The counter attacking from the ABs is just so good and England just can't compete when this combined with excellent decision making under pressure. For me, this is the small, but big difference between the two. England can compete on equal terms or better the ABs when it comes to scrum, line outs, mauls and at disrupting at the breakdown. But it is those small margins, of decision making of all the players, which make the ABs a great side and England a only good one.
 
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Re-watching the 2nd test and it's clear to me the difference in the decision making by the ABs is first class. England players ATM don't have that instinct to make the right decisions in the crucial moments. Some examples:

1. 36 ignoring a 2 man overlap on the left to pass inside to Wood??!!! To rub salt into the wound his poorly executed pass is next to impossible to pick up, as it's thrown to round Wood's ankles. From there Rettalick picks it up and from there the AB players pass it quickly and efficiently right to left through the hands. Cruden exploits a gap between Wilson and Morgan, who get caught in the outside channel and sets up Savea, who in turn passes to Bin Smuth for the try. Just so, so simple and the AB players are on the same wavelength. England could have done the same, but for poor decision making.

2. The real turning point for me is Tuilagi's run at the end of the first half. Again poor decision by both Tuilagi and Brown to not run together. Tuilagi should have run towards the goal posts to fix BS A and Brown should have run a better support line instead of running away from Tuilagi, so he had an option to pass to. Credit to BS for the tackle and turnover, but a real chance blown to score a converted try and lead 17-3 at halftime, instead of giving away a penalty and going in 10-6 up. It would have changed the momentum of the match completely.

The counter attacking from the ABs is just so good and England just can't compete when this combined with excellent decision making under pressure. For me, this is the small, but big difference between the two. England can compete on equal terms or better the ABs when it comes to scrum, line outs, mauls and at disrupting at the breakdown. But it is those small margins, of decision making of all the players, which make the ABs a great side and England a only good one.

It's actually a 7 vs 4 overlap, there is a man on the touchline - just about to post an article and some video on it.
 
It's actually a 7 vs 4 overlap, there is a man on the touchline - just about to post an article and some video on it.

Yep, thanks for that but the point remains that it was yet again an example of England players making the wrong decision in vital moments of the game. We've seen it countless times before in the 6Ns I.e. England blowing chances when they've had the overlap, so I won't be too harsh on 36. It boils down to our players' basic rugby intelligence is lacking compared to the ABs.
 
Yep, thanks for that but the point remains that it was yet again an example of England players making the wrong decision in vital moments of the game. We've seen it countless times before in the 6Ns I.e. England blowing chances when they've had the overlap, so I won't be too harsh on 36. It boils down to our players' basic rugby intelligence is lacking compared to the ABs.

I'm backing your point up, not challenging it. :)
 
36 constantly makes the poor choice or just does some stupid offload to an All black.
The All-Blacks that impressed me were Kaino (has he had some medical experiments done on him in Japan ! He looks better than he did before) Coles (Hooker was seen as a problem but he was great) Barrett (he added so much more pace and it helped Nonu no end) Savea (Not much too say as he is the best winger in the world) Bin Smuth (average :p)
 
Kaino

36 constantly makes the poor choice or just does some stupid offload to an All black.
The All-Blacks that impressed me were Kaino (has he had some medical experiments done on him in Japan ! He looks better than he did before) Coles (Hooker was seen as a problem but he was great) Barrett (he added so much more pace and it helped Nonu no end) Savea (Not much too say as he is the best winger in the world) Bin Smuth (average :p)


I agree Kaino had a good game. What was surprising was the Rugby 365 rated him 4 out of 10. In fact all three lose forwards were rated below average.
 
Interesting game.

No disrespect to England but the scoreline does flatter them. The 2nd try was complete BS, complete referee botch up that actually deserves some explanation from those involved and a final try when the game was out of reach to get within 1 point.

England still played well and if anything showed they are at least in reach of An All Black side which can be a bit rusty in the June tests.

~16 wins in a row and losing their Aura? If you say so buddy :p

How Close is Brodie Retalick from being the best lock in the world? He's been epic these first two tests.

Not just that try call but the reffing in general seemed to go against the All Blacks, and they seemed to get punished for having a dominant scrum which was total BS as well. Yes the All Blacks do have games the refs do seem to favor them, just pointing out that this game was definitely the other way around. Most of the games the All Blacks get the rub of the green on are ones they win by 20+ points and it didn't affect the result anyway.

Ben Smith...

Yes I know I love the guy, have done for years.

I think hes basically been the best and most consistent player in the world for the last 3 years IMO. Its a shame he has not had more chances in his best position. Its a shame he has not been an All Black regular as he should have been since 2008. No one could argue looking back now that the selection of Toeava ahead of him for so long was valid.

This game should be the breaking point for him. Hansen and Foster should have no choice now other than to give him ownership of the 15 jersey.
 
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