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[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (1st Test)

sean fitzpatrick on the first test:

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-uni...d-sean-fitzpatrick-ahead-of-new-zealand-clash

"In the first Test you have these young English kids who have been given an opportunity and will want to grab it with both hands. I have been a young kid in an All Black team when I was given a chance when no one else was available. You don't want to let the jersey down and you want to put in the best performance possible to potentially keep your spot.

New Zealand*** are very aware of what is going on over here and know that some of these players can really step it up. There is going to be even more pressure on the experienced players, especially in the first Test. They are going to have to lead by example and settle those around them."
 
ragerancher said:
More hope than believe. I was going on 2 unconverted tries and 3 penalties. The ABs actually infringe a lot at the breakdown but get away with it.
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Well yes mccaw .... oh I mean NZ do infringe a lot at the breakdown just the referee does naff all about it ;)
 
Danny Care is out:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/27707207

FFS!

"England assistant coach Andy Farrell said he "burst out laughing" when Care fell in training, only later realising the severity of the injury.

"It was Danny's own fault," Farrell said. "It was a rubbish kick. He stubbed his foot on the floor and missed the ball completely.

He fell over and hurt his shoulder. It was absolutely hilarious. I've got it on tape. I showed it to all the lads the next day.

But it wasn't quite as good two days later when he wasn't playing in the Test match."
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It's only a two test series, isn't it?
I'm looking forward to the first test next weekend anyway. Shame there's no rugby on tomorrow morning, but there's always the Boks/World XV to look forward to in the afternoon....




To be fair to Youngs, he looked to be regaining some form at Tigers towards the end of the season. He's also had a decent time of it in Australasia - some of his best play was on the tour of Australia and the RWC (I know they were donkeys years ago, but let me believe!) so hopefully he'll perform.
Losing one of the form 9s in world rugby, the day before the test, is not ideal.
 
New to the forum and a kiwi. Must confess I dont recognise many players in this English team, probably because we don't get the club premiership games here (easily). But whomever you bring here there is always this extra sense of dread that we might be beaten by England. i think its more than the motherland thing/ We dont like losing to any one but England are much more of a real threat even than the French who we seem to have regular issues with. I can remember the defeats by England. Carling scoring near the posts in a 15-9 defeat where a young Jeff Wilson missed several gettable kicks. Even the defeat at Eden Park in 1978(?)..again a yopung goal kicker John Dougan failing with key kicks and England victorious. Its a totally different game now , but still the same in some ways. Cruden is in my mind an unreliable kicker - but probably has a percentage in the high 70's to 80's. My worry is that this Lancaster bloke is developing England into a team that plays a much more complete game than we are used to seeing from Andrew/Wilkinson/Catt etc. I the past the kiwis would probably have tried to 'move the bigger english pack around the park' and try as said in an earlier post score late in the last 20mins. I dont think the AB's will move the ball wide as much as we have seen - there is no Savea, Lomu like block buster. I think the we will kick and put the ball to the corners or in the air and test Englands ability to play out of depth. No doubt this England team will be up for it - especially as there is supposedly 7-8 players from the final unavailable. What better motivation could this team have. AB's will be rusty to some extent. Weather. pitch wont be an issue...bring it on!
 
If I'm English, I'm happy about what's happening. Sure, it would have been better to have everybody or almost in all 3 test series; but I don't think England could've won the series anyhow, they weren't winning two of three matches in NZ. So with that out of the way, the stakes are clear: the point isn't to win the series, but rather to try out England in the hardest possible place to get a win. Considering that, playing a very weakened team will show them where they are and what they can manage with more modest weapons. It'll show just how much depth they possess, because you never know come RWC who will be missing, and for a big nation like England whose personnel plays a lot, injuries are going to happen all the time. That's just how it is.
And like Hansen and NZ fans are saying, England can basically only benefit from this. Unless they take a monumental pounding, which would completely expose their lack of depth. But they've got enough quality on that squad for this to be a long shot. They don't lack any attacking, so I bet they can put a few points on the board.
 
Big Ewis said:
If I'm English, I'm happy about what's happening. Sure, it would have been better to have everybody or almost in all 3 test series; but I don't think England could've won the series anyhow, they weren't winning two of three matches in NZ. So with that out of the way, the stakes are clear: the point isn't to win the series, but rather to try out England in the hardest possible place to get a win. Considering that, playing a very weakened team will show them where they are and what they can manage with more modest weapons. It'll show just how much depth they possess, because you never know come RWC who will be missing, and for a big nation like England whose personnel plays a lot, injuries are going to happen all the time. That's just how it is.
And like Hansen and NZ fans are saying, England can basically only benefit from this. Unless they take a monumental pounding, which would completely expose their lack of depth. But they've got enough quality on that squad for this to be a long shot. They don't lack any attacking, so I bet they can put a few points on the board.
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That's quite true. I would almost say none of the three SANZAR countries have anything to gain this month.
 
What?

They're playing test matches... this is the bread and butter of international sides!
They exist in order to play these games.
 
ratsapprentice said:
What?

They're playing test matches... this is the bread and butter of international sides!
They exist in order to play these games.
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I used the words 'quite' and 'almost' because, yes, of course the test sides are there to play tests. My feelings come because of these facotrs;

- middle of the Super rugby season which has a number of implications, for both our test sides and SR teams which directly feed our test sides of course
- this is our own problem but it seems Meyer is not going to use the games to develop depth which just means a few more caps for the likes of Botha, Matfield, Du Preez, Pienaar *swallows own puke*, possibly Kirchner, JPP, Habana etc... again that is our (Meyer's) own fault but to a large degree it comes back to timing again and the fact that we have a massive injury crisis
- too many games/injuries and I don't see these games as 'important enough' at this stage to warrant further injury
- not one 0.01 point to be won for the SANZAR nations at home in these match ups taking into account the assumed 3 point mark up for home advantage puts us at the 10 point limit so even a good win means 0 IRB ranking points. Of course this means nothing to anybody except me, and seeing as it was my statement..
- pointless game against world XV only chance for more injuries
- Wales are coming over under-strength as I understand it, England will play with essentialy 1 hand tied in test 1 and France just couldn't care about test rugby

So I guess I am saying a lot of it has to do with my personal views and the importance I place on provincial rugby in SA. And the fact that I am looking at SA in particular (Aus has a lot more to gain).

To balance that I don't think there is absolutely nothing to gain. Of course not. For me Willie le Roux getting a few extra caps is worth gold. But he is the only player in the starting XV (though I do hope we have a rethink when the actual tests start) that needs test experience. The others either a ton already or are not expected to form part of any future Bok squads (assuming our injured get back to fitness).
 
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I'm away working at the moment and won't be able to watch the game. Seeing the squad and that Care is out now I actually don't care. Which I never though of say about an England game.

Gray over Ward (or LCD for that matter) is madness. As has been pointed out , he's Quins THIRD hooker. What?

Thomas will come on around the hour mark and get turned inside out and then back out again.

Johnson on the bench I can understand, he's a known quantity. But Kvesic should be there.

Youngs at nine with he terrible kicking game will gift the All Black back three all sorts of possession.

Burns at ten. Just no. No.


These are all just terrible choices, and I don't understand why they've been made. They also completely cancel out how good and exciting out back three looks, the attacking potential of our 12-13 and the strength of our starting front row and back row (sort of).

I hope we get smashed and that Lancaster sees sense. Until this week I was really keen to see this game used to give some of our young talent the game time they deserve. Now it's just going to be a farce. If we loose by less than 30 it's a win.
 
stormer2010 said:
That's quite true. I would almost say none of the three SANZAR countries have anything to gain this month.
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yup I disagree. NZ had one heck of a hard time in Europe in all 3 tests last November, certainly way more difficult than the 3 tests they had away in TRC mind you. Yeah Aus, SA and Arg, I'm lookin at you.
And England, bar the first test, is coming to challenge the AB on their own homeground, 3 times, and NZ cannot afford to lose a single one and considering the most crisis-enduced France side of all-time gave em 2 out of 3 scares last year, they better bring it big time, and close contests would be worrying for NZ.
I was only saying England can only gain *FROM TEST 1*. Unless, again, they take 60pts or smt ridiculous like that.

France may have Saint-André and co. leading the charge, nevertheless they've got quality on paper, always. Australia could easily lose one game, and they'll have to give it their all if they want a sweep. It's no holiday for the green and gold men this summer.

As for Wales, they may have a woeful record against SH sides in general, they're still a handful to contain and have quality throughout that XV, and SA will have to make sure they dodge the World XV bullet, beat a hungry Welsh side twice, and a new look Sottish team. And I don't see SA putting 40 past all those.
 

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