[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (1st Test)

[Crapspray]

Lim not trying to defend the ref or anything, but, Fekitoa was genuinely going for a turnover whereas Yarde was blatantly just killing it. There is a slight difference I suppose if you were trying to defend it.

Fair enough. But for me, if it's that close and you don't release after being told, and the ref says it's fifty-fifty, then it's a yellow.

 

[Peat]

Yarde done nothing all game, if Ashton had put in that performance then everyone would say how he doesn't deserve an England shirt. Maybe Yarde will come good but he hasn't shown anything to me to prove that he will become a great winger. Who knows he might score a brace next week and I look like an idiot ? All he has shown is he can run in a straight line and doesn't go looking for work. As well as having **** poor discipline.

Stahp. Just stahp.

If you can't see the difference between where Ashton is and where Yarde is in terms of development and expectations, then you need to remove your blinkers.

In fact, what in the dickens has Ashton got to do with Yarde's performance? Nothing, that's what. I'd suggest you stop mentioning him but its a little late for that.

 

[austingtir]

Lim not trying to defend the ref or anything, but, Fekitoa was genuinely going for a turnover whereas Yarde was blatantly just killing it. There is a slight difference I suppose if you were trying to defend it.

Thats what I saw aswell the Yarde one just looked really bad and was off his feat whereas Fekitoa was on his feat for most of it wasnt he?

 

[McTallshort]

Yarde done nothing all game, if Ashton had put in that performance then everyone would say how he doesn't deserve an England shirt. Maybe Yarde will come good but he hasn't shown anything to me to prove that he will become a great winger. Who knows he might score a brace next week and I look like an idiot ? All he has shown is he can run in a straight line and doesn't go looking for work. As well as having **** poor discipline.

He doesnt

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Disagree. Twelvetrees, now that he's had a few games, is an absolutely vital part of the England team for me. Absolutely vital. Not only because he has the most well-rounded game of anyone in the backline, but because he can bring out the best in others. He does absolutely everything to a good degree. Tackling, breakdown work, physicality, distribution, carrying, kicking, running off the ball, positioning, leadership etc. Except for his breakdown skills which are exceptional for a centre, he may not be a 10/10 in any of these traits, like you might argue Tuilagi is at carrying or Eastmond is at distribution/footwork. But he's at least a 7 or 8 out of 10 in more of these traits than any other centre.

Twelvetrees isn't vital to the England game and he would be my 3rd choice 12. His game overall is good but he hasn't got that extra standout ability that the others have. Like Burrell offloading, Tuiligi's runs or Eastmond ability to create space with his feet.

 

[exeter]

I heard him tell Fekitoa that if hadn't just come on, he would have got a yellow card. I've got a lot of time for Owens, but he bottled two clear yellow card decisions and made very strange knock-on decisions against England. He also missed a clear tackle in the air by England and a few other infringements.

 

[j'nuh]

Twelvetrees isn't vital to the England game and he would be my 3rd choice 12. His game overall is good but he hasn't got that extra standout ability that the others have. Like Burrell offloading, Tuiligi's runs or Eastmond ability to create space with his feet.

I agree that he isn't as specialised as the others. But not everyone can be in a team. Imagine a flanker with only one exceptional skill, the rest being mediocre. They would make an average Heineken Cup player at best. Whereas an exceptional carrying 8 can become something to worry about at international level, regardless of their other skills (e.g. Billy Vunipola isn't exceptional in anything other than carrying, yet makes the most of it). A tighthead that can scrummage the hell out of opposition can become a force at international level even if they lack other skills. But a fly-half that is only good for their kicking game will not be known as anything to get excited about. etc.

Twelvetrees isn't particularly specialised. But he easily has the best all-round game of the centres.

I've edited my post. Please re-read it.

 

[Darwin]

I heard him tell Fekitoa that if hadn't just come on, he would have got a yellow card. I've got a lot of time for Owens, but he bottled two clear yellow card decisions and made very strange knock-on decisions against England. He also missed a clear tackle in the air by England and a few other infringements.

I'm pretty sure that is not what he said.....

If someone has a replay (of that particular incident), it would be great if they could post it.....

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I agree that he isn't as specialised as the others. But not everyone can be in a team. Imagine a flanker with only one exceptional skill, the rest being mediocre. They would make an average Heineken Cup player at best. Whereas a good specialist 8 can become the best in their position in the world.

I've edited my post. Please re-read it.

I suppose it will depend on what soirt of 10 England go for.

 

[austingtir]

Yeah just watched the Fekitoa one again its just a penalty at most even that's dubious id have to see it in slow mo as fekitoa seemed to join right and was over the ball was certainly one of the first players there. Nothing in it imo.

 

[TheSaffycen]

you can't see the difference between where Ashton is and where Yarde is in terms of development and expectations, then you need to remove your blinkers.

In fact, what in the dickens has Ashton got to do with Yarde's performance? Nothing, that's what. I'd suggest you stop mentioning him but its a little late for that.

wait so everybody can say who they think should come in next test and say who should be dropped but I cant ? Well fair ****ing enough peat I'll just keep my opinions to myself and make sure I don't contribute to the forum unless I get your permission.

 

[j'nuh]

wait so everybody can say who they think should come in next test and say who should be dropped but I cant ? Well fair ****ing enough peat I'll just keep my opinions to myself and make sure I don't contribute to the forum unless I get your permission.

If you're gonna voice your opinion, you shouldn't complain that you have to back it up. Don't play the victim if someone else simply disagrees with your post. Prove your point.

No point in discussion if our thoughts were homogeneous.

FWIW, Ashton looked terrible for a long time for England, whereas Yarde looked average today. May now looks good. I don't doubt that Ashton would play a lot better if he were picked right now. Dropping him was exactly what he needed (much as it has been for many other players in the past, e.g. Care). But Yarde deserves his chance, and this was his first real test. I expect him to be a lot better after two or three more tests. I think he'll quickly cement a place. May/Yarde is spot-on the right partnership for now. Both of them will improve with time. When they and Brown have an understanding with each other, that back three will be pretty sensational.

 

[munstermuffin]

From a neutral POV on England. They're looking good for RWC. They didn't win but are building superbly under what I think is an excellent coaching staff. Wilson was good at basics. The backrow was immense. Morgan really stepped up and when you consider guys like Wood and Vunipola were missing it'll be an area with fierce competition. I was bit disappointed by Youngs at 9 but don't know was it that his move to Leicester was confirmed but Burns was excellent. Cipriani showed he's able to. The centre partnership is excellent to watch. I didn't expect it to go that well. Back 3 all played well Yarde and May I thought had superb shifts. A hell of a lot more positives for England and I now can see them winning a test in this

 

[exeter]

I think if you're playing Brown and Farrell, you need a Twelvetrees or an Eastmond at 12 - somebody who can act as a second first receiver. Burrell is a superb player in superb form, and his passing is severely underrated, but I'd have to see him play 12 in a (less important) test to see whether he could act as that first receiver. The alternative is to play Goode at fullback and then you could play Burrell and Tuilagi together comfortably. However, this fills me with dread.

 

[RoosTah]

Cheering the All Blacks all the way, but England looking very good. Next week will be interesting.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

wait so everybody can say who they think should come in next test and say who should be dropped but I cant ? Well fair ****ing enough peat I'll just keep my opinions to myself and make sure I don't contribute to the forum unless I get your permission.

Most normal people can, but your a saracens fan so that is a no no.

. but don't know was it that his move to Leicester was confirmed but Burns was excellent.

That is just how good Cockerill is

 

[austingtir]

I agree with the above comments. Next year at home these guys are going to be super tough to beat you can see the parallels to the 2003 team... I just suspect at this stage this bunch might be a bit to inexperienced. I just hope for the AB's sake we can trounce them atleast once in the next two games otherwise I think Englands confidence is going to be very high for the WC next year.

 

[Crapspray]

More that he was being coached by someone other than the Gloucester lot. Twelvetrees and Morgan are other players who've done well away from the cherry and ****e coaching set-up.

 

[Tony Manx]

Yarde done nothing all game, if Ashton had put in that performance then everyone would say how he doesn't deserve an England shirt. Maybe Yarde will come good but he hasn't shown anything to me to prove that he will become a great winger. Who knows he might score a brace next week and I look like an idiot ? All he has shown is he can run in a straight line and doesn't go looking for work. As well as having **** poor discipline.

Ah the old one eyed perspective again......................!!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

More that he was being coached by someone other than the Gloucester lot. Twelvetrees and Morgan are other players who've done well away from the cherry and ****e coaching set-up.

My cockerill comment was a joke.

I thought Twelvetrees is one of the few Glous bright sparks this season?