[2014 Mid-Year Tests] New Zealand vs England (1st Test)

[j'nuh]

How come Yarde has a pretty poor game yet everyone says stick with him ? If that was Ashton he would have been hung from the rafters ! Yarde was **** against Oz and here he/Owens cost us the game, maybe he thought that because New Zealand hadn't been carded earlier Owens wasn't going to give him one ?

May has gotten progressively better with the caps he has been getting and put in his best England performance to date. Many would have given up on him after one or two games, or even after the Six Nations, but I feel he's starting to vindicate Lancaster's trust in him. I wouldn't see why we wouldn't afford Yarde the same kind of luxury, especially since Yarde has been the best English winger this season. I would give him at least until the end of the Autumn and had he not found his feet by then, start considering bringing in Rokoduguni/Wade for the 6N.

I think Twelvetrees will drop down the pecking order.

Would rather have Eastmond or burrell @ 12 than Twelvetrees and Twelvetrees isn't at all a @13.

Disagree. Twelvetrees, now that he's had a few games, is an absolutely vital part of the England team for me. Absolutely vital. Not only because he has the most well-rounded game of anyone in the backline, but because he can bring out the best in others. He does absolutely everything to a good degree. Tackling, breakdown work, physicality, distribution, carrying, kicking, running off the ball, positioning, leadership etc. Except for his breakdown skills which are exceptional for a centre, he may not be a 10/10 in any of these traits, like you might argue Tuilagi is at carrying or Eastmond is at distribution/footwork. But he's at least a 7 or 8 out of 10 in more of these traits than any other centre.

His breakdown work is very underrated. He makes turnovers, but more important is that he is a fantastic defensive rucker. Twelvetrees is absolutely vital for clearing out backline ball. Eastmond may be better in distribution, but Twelvetrees is no slouch either, and the difference is that Twelvetrees can follow up his pass and support his runner, winning the ball back for his team. Eastmond is a lot more easily pushed out of the contact zone. It's this unseen kind of work that Twelvetrees excels at as a back, and is why others raise their game around him.

The difference between Twelvetrees and Burrell/Eastmond/Tuilagi is almost like the difference between a flanker and an 8. Flankers have a variety of skills designed to keep the team moving. 8s are a lot more specialised. That's no insult to either, but you need that balance. So personally, I like the Twelvetrees-Other balance.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Im not a piutau fan unless he's replacing a dropped Dagg.

with Smith at fullback you'd want him on the right wing

 

[Rich Taff]

Sorry, but you're wrong. Two very bad calls on what constitutes a knock-on, incredible and game changing inconsistency over what constitutes a yellow card, missed a blatant penalty when an AB picked úp a knock on while offside and then the sudden decision to start pinging crooked scrum feeds on the 70th minute was poor.

It was a bad game from him. Objectively bad.

Well, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Regards the crooked feed. I think that the fact it was 'more crooked' than any he'd put in before was the cause of the free kick. They were all crooked, but that one was almost fed into the second row.

 

[austingtir]

with Smith at fullback you'd want him on the right wing

Nope Fekitoa!!

 

[exeter]

Yarde's only real weakness was on the turn - the ABs put a couple of balls behind him and he was a little flat-footed. His chasing of kicks was superb as was his aggression in the tackle, although he didn't get many opportunities with ball in hand. May has had plenty of chances and looks too flaky for test rugby for me, despite one good run and kick. I'd start with Yarde and Ashton next test.

 

[SelimNiai]

May has gotten progressively better with the caps he has been getting and put in his best England performance to date. Many would have given up on him after one or two games, or even after the Six Nations, but I feel he's starting to vindicate Lancaster's trust in him. I wouldn't see why we wouldn't afford Yarde the same kind of luxury, especially since Yarde has been the best English winger this season. I would give him at least until the end of the Autumn and had he not found his feet by then, start considering bringing in Rokoduguni/Wade for the 6N.

Think it's twigged in his mind that he's supposed to run forwards and not sideways/backwards

 

[Bada-Bing!]

It was a bit imbalanced but we should of been able to cope in this match. To me the real problem was the front 5 they were useless. It all starts up there and compounds down the line when they stuff up imo.

The ABs have a big problem at hooker; it's clear Dane Coles is too small to scrummage at international level. Mealamu will come in for him next week. Woodcock was also given a torrid time by Marler at the scrum; as was Franks by Wilson. I would not be surprised if Faumauina comes in at 3.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Nope Fekitoa!!

He doesn't even play there though. Not even sure he can field a high ball or pull a clearing kick.

 

[Darwin]

The reason that Owens didn't yellow card the NZ player (Fekitoa) was because it was (according to the ref) a 50:50 call. When they were walking back to halfway Fekitoa asked why he had been penalised, and the ref explained to him that it was a tight decision and if it had been a more obvious penalty it would have been a yellow card. In the refs opinion Fekitoa tried to perform a legal turnover but his timing was a fraction of a second out - based on this I can understand why he wasn't given a yellow card. Nonu should certainly have been given a yellow earlier in the match, but that is another story!

A few more thoughts on the NZ players:
- Front row was quiet. Franks made a few good tackles, and Coles lineout throwing was pretty good, but apart from that they didn't feature.
- Both locks were very quiet, which is unusual for them
- Kaino was very powerful, but is a 6, not an 8. Messam was used almost exclusively as a link man on attack, but did make a few tackles, while McCaw was solid, but pretty quiet. Vito made a good impact when he came on too...
- Smith did some good things with ball in hand. His passing was long (and accurate), and a couple of his kicks were superb (NZ would have scored if Kaino could pick up the ball...). Perenara nearly made a debut to forget - he tried to do a "Stephen Donald" at the end....
- Cruden was very quiet. Tapping instead of taking the shot at goal was a massive gamble too!
- Nonu was poor. He shouldn't kick the ball, and wasn't able to make much ground with ball in hand.
- Conrad Smith was the pick of the backs for me. He didn't make any big breaks, but he made some key defensive plays, and scored the key try.
- Jane and Ben Smith made some nice touches, but didn't get any space. Dagg was rubbish (as usual..). He actually made his tackles (for a change), and even made a break, but he turned over the ball 5 times (almost half of NZ total turnovers!). Barrett didn't look very comfortable at fullback when he came on either.

Oh well, there is always next week.......

 

[donmcdazzle]

The ABs have a big problem at hooker; it's clear Dane Coles is too small to scrummage at international level. Mealamu will come in for him next week. Woodcock was also given a torrid time by Marler at the scrum; as was Franks by Wilson. I would not be surprised if Faumauina comes in at 3.

Agreed. The crop after Coles can't throw in accurately so we have to nurse Mealamu along as long as possible

 

[Bazzy]

By the way has anyone figured out why Perenara kicked when there was like a min left in the game and ABs had the ball just inside their half. If England had scored from that possession I would have been so...

 

[McTallshort]

I don't understand or really care for the idea that Tuilagi "ruins England's shape on attack" or wtvr. A Pacific Islander style, top pace, enormous specimen, thighs the circumference of my torso each, needs 3 guys and still makes ground, makes breaks all the time, commands the most attention from opposite teams...it's just so ridiculous to think he doesn't deserve game time. Neither Twelvetrees nor Burrell influence a game like Tuilagi. Just look at ENG NZ 2012, neither those two other guys could dream of making that impact. Tuilagi is determinant on all 3 tries, and directly responsible for 2.

Tuilagi is like Robshaw, people look more at what he doesnt do than what he can do, Robshaws not a jackel should play Kvestic/Tuilagi doesnt pass should play Burrell its all crap

 

[TheSaffycen]

Yarde had a was great at chasing kicks didn't get much ball, in defence was out of position a few times but made the tackles, Ashton when he last played for England did nothing.

Ashton has up his game but for a England NZ game Yarde played vey well.

Yarde done nothing all game, if Ashton had put in that performance then everyone would say how he doesn't deserve an England shirt. Maybe Yarde will come good but he hasn't shown anything to me to prove that he will become a great winger. Who knows he might score a brace next week and I look like an idiot ? All he has shown is he can run in a straight line and doesn't go looking for work. As well as having **** poor discipline.

 

[Peat]

I'll throw this out there - the NZ pack (at least without Read) is a touch average and the team is coming under far more pressure as a result. Their games vs SA in particular look interesting but first, we have an opportunity to really put the screws on them...

edit: Appears I'm not the first to say it!

 

[donmcdazzle]

By the way has anyone figured out why Perenara kicked when there was like a min left in the game and ABs had the ball just inside their half. If England had scored from that possession I would have been so...

That was a panic move from him

 

[Crapspray]

The reason that Owens didn't yellow card the NZ player (Fekitoa) was because it was (according to the ref) a 50:50 call. When they were walking back to halfway Fekitoa asked why he had been penalised, and the ref explained to him that it was a tight decision and if it had been a more obvious penalty it would have been a yellow card. In the refs opinion Fekitoa tried to perform a legal turnover but his timing was a fraction of a second out - based on this I can understand why he wasn't given a yellow card.

He said that he sent Yarde off after clearly telling him to release the ball and he didn't. He did the same to the All Blacks one yard out, and they didn't, but no card. Not to mention the positioning: who's likely going to be not releasing because they're trying a turnover one yard out? It was killing the ball either way; benefit of the doubt to the attacking side.

 

[austingtir]

He doesn't even play there though. Not even sure he can field a high ball or pull a clearing kick.

Could of said that about Kahui before the 2011 world cup.... To me its the obvoius way to get him into the side. England are poor under the kick so we can afford risk Fekitoa anyway... i reckon he'd go fine. And get the space he needs to really blow a team apart.

 

[exeter]

I can't see how you can say May had a good game - he confused Brown with a ball that was clearly the full back's, he was very lucky that his dummy near the try-line didn't result in a try, his lack of communication perhaps resulted in the losing try. He's a talented player, but he's making bad decisions in test rugby at the moment.

 

[donmcdazzle]

He said that he sent Yarde off after clearly telling him to release the ball and he didn't. He did the same to the All Blacks one yard out, and they didn't, but no card. Not to mention the positioning: who's likely going to be not releasing because they're trying a turnover one yard out? It was killing the ball either way; benefit of the doubt to the attacking side.

Lim not trying to defend the ref or anything, but, Fekitoa was genuinely going for a turnover whereas Yarde was blatantly just killing it. There is a slight difference I suppose if you were trying to defend it.

 

[Crapspray]

Yarde done nothing all game, if Ashton had put in that performance then everyone would say how he doesn't deserve an England shirt.

Ashton did put in that performance. For about fifteen games in a row. It took that many for him to be dropped, Yarde has had rough game against the All Blacks and he's to be dropped? He should have just as many chances.