[2014 Mid-Year Tests] England

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd forgotten about Waller: He's been going very well this season.
Same with Haywood.

 

[j'nuh]

At the risk of being laughed at after the season Glos have had, Yann Thomas could be a decent option at loosehead somewhere down the line too.

Has looked strong in spite of all the issues Glos have had this season. Put him alongside Hibbard and Afoa, with an older Stooke and Palmer/Hudson/Galarza behind and Trevor Woodman pulling the strings re: coaching (what a difference he has made in just a few short weeks - Glos are now actually giving other teams things to worry about in that regards), and I think Glos may just make a name for themselves in the scrum next season. Yann's been great in the loose too, and will only get better now he's hitting the right ages. Been very impressed with him, I think he has a decent future. (Whether that involves England with all the talent England have, maybe not. But I wouldn't rule him out.)

 

[Mumbles119]

Kind of, if I'm honest ; Farrell has become a very good fly-half but I die a little death every time he plays at 12.

Yes. I suppose your are right. In my heart I would love to see 10.Farrell 12.Eastmond 13.Burrell/Tuilagi with Ford and Daly on the bench.

Maybe the Farrell at 12 thing will only be as an emergency plan B.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Tom Youngs' wife is ill and as such he is not touring - Wade, Corbs and Croft are also ruled out.

England's medical team are also liaising with Bath Rugby and Gloucester Rugby over injuries to Rob Webber (knee) and Billy Twelvetrees (ankle) respectively.
Lancaster will announce the first group of players for the New Zealand tour on May 15, with a full touring party announced on May 26 after the complexities of availability from domestic and European finals are resolved.

 

[Aristodemus]

Whilst I am not pleased to see his wife is ill I have to say I am happy he isn't touring.

 

[Peat]

I'm not - I know Tom Youngs hasn't been in the greatest of form, but when he is he's a youthful player, and I'd like to see him get plenty of opportunities to recapture it. Also, if we're touring NZ and looking to win, I'd rather not be doing that with out 4th choice hooker on the bench. Whoever that individual may be.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Agree with Peat, there.

Really hope 36 pulls through - him and Farrell were developing a nice partnership through the Six Nations, and if we're throwing a rookie in at 10 in the first test then I'd rather Billy at 12 than Burrell or Eastmond.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I think we're going to see a few more injuries before the end of the season and what was the litmus test of where England are might turn into a 3-0 drubbing where all we find out is our 4th or 5th choice players aren't good enough to be anywhere near an England shirt.

 

[Shaggy]

Tom Youngs' wife is ill and as such he is not touring - Wade, Corbs and Croft are also ruled out.

I was just reading about Tom Youngs not touring ... I hope his wife recovers ... love to see the best players tour, but there are more important things in life than Rugby

 

[Big Ewis]

I was just reading about Tom Youngs not touring ... I hope his wife recovers ... love to see the best players tour, but there are more important things in life than Rugby

wait wait....somebody married TOM YOUNGS ?!!....nahhh, kidding...

 

[goodNumber10]

Don't think Farrell offers anywhere near enough of a running threat to play in the centres.
Would get shut down very quickly potentially.

I don't disagree, i'm just saying whilst doubtful i can understand why people are keen on it.

 

[goodNumber10]

that's really bad news about Tom Youngs wife press say it serious, absolutely the right thing to do in withdrawing.

That leaves us missing an entire world class front row - Corbs, Youngs, Cole. Thankfully the New Zealand Front row is not THAT great, so even depleted we should hold up there.

 

[Shaggy]

that's really bad news about Tom Youngs wife press say it serious, absolutely the right thing to do in withdrawing.

That leaves us missing an entire world class front row - Corbs, Youngs, Cole. Thankfully the New Zealand Front row is not THAT great, so even depleted we should hold up there.

... I guess we can only hope to compete with who ever you send then

... lord knows how we manage to win so often, given that we persisted with a front row that not THAT great ... Mealamu (110 tests), Tony Woodcock (107 tests), Owen Franks (54 tests)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Hopefuilly Mrs Youngs will make a quick recovery.

Prays go out to him and his very young family.

So Youngs, Croft, Nowell, Corbisero and Wade will not tour currently.

 

[goodNumber10]

... I guess we can only hope to compete with who ever you send then

... lord knows how we manage to win so often, given that we persisted with a front row that not THAT great ... Mealamu (110 tests), Tony Woodcock (107 tests), Owen Franks (54 tests)

Does caps = excellence then? Because there are plenty of players with high caps that aren't on a world class level. Ben Alexander for example has 61 tests, no one would call him a great prop. Chris Patterson was triple figures but would he ever have featured in a world 15? doubtful.

Anyway, not wanting to start an agrument, but the NZ front row is fine, it's not amazing it's certainly an area England would have hoped to have been targetting. As most things in New Zealand it's the sum of the parts not the parts that count. The AB team is great, the pack is good good with a sprinkling of world class in it.

 

[ratsapprentice]

The NZ front row's skills are pretty good.

But really, they aren't that good... can't see any of them currently making a World XV.

 

[Shaggy]

Does caps = excellence then? Because there are plenty of players with high caps that aren't on a world class level. Ben Alexander for example has 61 tests, no one would call him a great prop. Chris Patterson was triple figures but would he ever have featured in a world 15? doubtful.

Anyway, not wanting to start an agrument, but the NZ front row is fine, it's not amazing it's certainly an area England would have hoped to have been targetting. As most things in New Zealand it's the sum of the parts not the parts that count. The AB team is great, the pack is good good with a sprinkling of world class in it.

No, caps by themselves doesn't make excellence, Caps + test results are a pretty good indicator though ... I certainly respect the English Scrum, but the All Blacks seem to hold their own against most opponents, so I'm not too worried.

Don't really put much stock in the World XV point either ... World XV are really a matter of opinion anyway ... and it's more about how a forward pack goes as a cohesive unit, more than the individuals (although individual performance has it's part)

I don't want to start an argument either, but differing opinions are okay too ... it is a forum after all

The NZ front row's skills are pretty good.

But really, they aren't that good... can't see any of them currently making a World XV.

Yes ... the World XV ... they don't have to be the best in the World (and I never said they were) ... is it a requirement that they are the first choice players in someone's hypothetical team to at least hold parity with England? ... I don't think so

You say they "really aren't that good" and I say, "they really aren't that bad" or more specifically "as bad as you think they are"

 

[ratsapprentice]

The only point I (and I think no10) am making is that NZ's strength does not lie in their front-row.

Going to NZ without your first choice props is not as potentially disastrous as doing so in SA.
You seem to have taken the suggestion that Mealamu, Woodcock and Franks aren't among the very finest in their position as a slight.

Nowhere has anybody suggested that they are "bad".

 

[goodNumber10]

and it's more about how a forward pack goes as a cohesive unit, more than the individuals (although individual performance has it's part)

absolutely, and that's exactly my point.

I don't want to start an argument either, but differing opinions are okay too ... it is a forum after all

Of course, or course. I just meant i didn't want to send this thread spiraling off into a discusison of how good the NZ front row are - i think we allaccept they are good, just that in comparison to England it's not an area we'd have been fearing.

Yes ... the World XV ... they don't have to be the best in the World (and I never said they were) ... is it a requirement that they are the first choice players in someone's hypothetical team to at least hold parity with England? ... I don't think so

You say they "really aren't that good" and I say, "they really aren't that bad" or more specifically "as bad as you think they are"

I agree, the point i was making is they aren't a unit that wil hold a fear factor for England - or at least wouldn't, England will be confident of holding their own, if not dominating at scrum time. There wont' be many scrum penalties in this test series i'd imagine.

 

[TheSaffycen]

The front row is New Zealand's weakest point, but it is still more than competent at intl' level. Corbisiero and Cole in my opinion could have really done damage to Woodcock and Franks, as people said above having your first choice props out for New Zealand isn't as big a problem as South Africa and Argentina.