[2014 Mid-Year Test] South Africa vs Scotland 28/06/14

[iINDOMINUSxx]

South Africa vs. Scotland. 28/06/14, 17:00 SAST (UTC+02, 19:00 BST), Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth, Eastern Cape, South Africa

Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)

Broadcast: Sky Sports 1

Teams: ​
South Africa: Willie le Roux, Cornal Hendricks, JP Pietersen, Jan Serfontein, Lwazi Mvovo, Handre Pollard, Fourie du Preez, Duane Vermeulen, Schalk Burger, Marcel Coetzee, Victor Matfield (captain), Lood de Jager, Jannie du Plessis, Bismarck du Plessis, Coenie Oosthuizen.

Replacements: Adriaan Strauss, Trevor Nyakane, Marcel van der Merwe, Stephan Lewies, Oupa Mohoje, Francois Hougaard, Marnitz Boshoff, Zane Kirchner

Scotland: 15 Stuart Hogg, 14 Sean Maitland, 13 Nick De Luca, 12 Peter Horne, 11 Tommy Seymour, 10 Duncan Weir, 9 Henry Pyrgos, 8 Adam Ashe, 7 Chris Fusaro, 6 Rob Harley, 5 Grant Gilchrist (c), 4 Tim Swinson, 3 Geoff Cross, 2 Ross Ford, 1 Al Dickinson

Replacements: 16 Kevin Bryce, 17 Moray Low, 18 Euan Murray, 19 Jonny Gray, 20 Tyrone Holmes, 21 Grayson Hart, 22 Dougie Fife, 23 Peter Murchie

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Can't see this going well for Scotland. Their recent performances have been pretty unconvincing whilst the Springboks look dangerous even when not playing at their best.

 

[Big Ewis]

yeah, the Boks are going to pound Scotland. They just came WAYYYYYYYYYY too close to losing at home, and we all know how South Africa as a nation reacts to that. The Boks will be out to absolutely punish the next team that comes to town just to make up for that.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

yeah i cant see scotland winning this one

 

[Tony Manx]

Just to confirm it is on Sky Sports 1..........................Scotland will only win if the SA Ladies team turn up instead!

The travelling squad of Scottish players is so denuded that I just cannot see them sticking anywhere close to a fullish SA team or even their seconds and watching this will be along the lines of masochism (or watching Biarritz for the last years)!!

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

ok thanks Tony

 

[TRF_heineken]

This is going to be an interesting game.

The Boks will be without their NH players: Bryan Habana, Morne Steyn, Bakkies Botha, Gurthro Steenkamp, Wynand Olivier, Francois Louw and Schalk Brits.

So far only Handre Pollard and Adriaan Strauss has been called up to fill the empty spots...

 

[TheSaffycen]

I am going to predict SA 30- 10, don't know without seeing the lineups.

 

[Tony Manx]

This is going to be an interesting game.

The Boks will be without their NH players: Bryan Habana, Morne Steyn, Bakkies Botha, Gurthro Steenkamp, Wynand Olivier, Francois Louw and Schalk Brits.

So far only Handre Pollard and Adriaan Strauss has been called up to fill the empty spots...

They will not need them my friend!!

 

[TRF_heineken]

They will not need them my friend!!

I agree. And I am very happy to see Pollard being called up. Between him and Goosen, we finally have a very good attacking fly half. Add Willie Le Roux into that mix, our backline could become even just as scary as our forwards.

 

[gaston le gaff]

heineken;654571]I agree. And I am very happy to see Pollard being called up. Between him and Goosen, we finally have a very good attacking fly half. Add Willie Le Roux into that mix, our backline could become even just as scary as our forwards.[/QUOTE]

Pollard is a great call if he leaves the girls alone and concentrates on his rugby he will go far outstanding as a baby Bok

 

[Basco]

Scotland will also be without their players based in England and France, so basically they'll go play the boks with their A team. If I were a betting man I'd say SA by 30

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So we have Handre Pollard called up the squad along with Adriaan Strauss. Strauss is a simple enough replacement for Brits. Will be interesting to see what route HM goes at 10 being forced to choose 2 of Goosen, Pollard and Boshoff with M Steyn and *shakes violently* Wynand Olivier unavailable.

Can I just say that knowing (thank goodness I didn't watch the match!!)- simply knowing- Wynand Olivier had a couple of minutes on the field for us.. it gives me a deep sense of dread. Some sort of lurking, festering Lovecraft-esque deepseated horror that I am only really aware of when I am not busy and that I know will trouble me for some time to come.

I just had to get that off my chest; it was weighing heavily.

So I havn't been able to find an article but apparently HM has been told by the SA government via the SARU chief exec that SA rugby needs to change and that the likes of Habana, JPP and Hendricks don't count as black. So don't be surprised to see Mohoje, Nyakane, Kolisi, Sithole and Mvovo in the matchday 23 for Scotland. It's actually a massive disservice to those players! Kolisi was part of last year's squad on merit with Botha injured. He has been troubled with ****ling injuries and hasn't been the player he as last year. I am sure getting 100% fit he'd be legitimately pushing for a spot again. Now the government interference will leave a shadow over his inclusion when it comes. Same for Nyakane; has been on and off for the Cheetahs but the politicians don't take form into account. Mvovo is on the fringes on merit as well and is the merit no.23 IMO but certainly behind Le Roux and Habana and though personally I'd have had him ahead of Hendricks the latter has been taking his chances at 14. I suppose that is the trouble with versatility and Mvovo won't be the first versatile backline player not to start due to offering versatility off the bench IE it's not a black vs white thing at all. On Mohoje and Sithole, it's true they've been looking exciting for their franchizes but it's their 1st season FFS, guys like Pollard and Serfontein have been looking far better for far longer and have only recently broken into the squad on the back of availability issues for others. It is simply ridiculous for them to be mentioned as possible starters at this stage. Their inclusion in the squad as long term projects I can understand though. But seriously considering them options for next year's world cup? You can't be serious. Not that they aren't good players but it's just too soon for them next year. Hell, it's too soon for Pollard next year and this is a guy who has been groomed to be a part of Bok rugby for some time now.

Between Matfield, Van der Merwe and De Jager we have the locks covered for now while Etzebeth should be ready for the RC though PSdT seems to be set only to return in 2015. So Botha won't be missed. Paul Willemse and Stephan Lewies are the guy I see as having an outside chance to force selections still.

Arno Botha also only due back in 2015. Vermeulen, Alberts and Burger will probably be the starting backrow so Scotland will probably look to target the breakdown again. Kolisi and Coetzee will probably be the options HM will look at for the bench spot though it really should read 6Brussow, 7Alberts, 8Vermeulen 20Burger with Louw out if you ask me.

This is going to be an interesting game.

The Boks will be without their NH players: Bryan Habana, Morne Steyn, Bakkies Botha, Gurthro Steenkamp, Wynand Olivier, Francois Louw and Schalk Brits.

So far only Handre Pollard and Adriaan Strauss has been called up to fill the empty spots...

Hein, no mention of Pienaar or FdP? So we can assume they are available? I don't know how I feel about this..

10 will be interesting; which 2 of Goosen, Pollard and Boshoff HM will go with in the absence of the untouchable Steyn will be telling. Exciting! My bet is 10 Goosen, 22 Pollard if I know HM.

No Olivier or Habana will either mean JPP goes to the wing to cover Habana and we bring in an actual 13 or Mvovo comes into the starting side to cover Habs. Opens up a spot for one of Engelbrecht or Sithole I'd presume. Someone who wasn't mentioned by the government but I have a lot of time for is Lionel Mapoe. I wouldn't have a problem with him coming in at 23 though I think he is another of our injured centers? None of this even matters though as De Allende has the spot already sewn up even if he hasn't been involved yet as far as I'm concerned!

 

[TRF_heineken]

So we have Handre Pollard called up the squad along with Adriaan Strauss. Strauss is a simple enough replacement for Brits. Will be interesting to see what route HM goes at 10 being forced to choose 2 of Goosen, Pollard and Boshoff with M Steyn and *shakes violently* Wynand Olivier unavailable.

Morne and Wynand is already on the plane back to France.

HM only has Goosen, Boshoff and Pollard to pick from for this game. My gut tells me that Pollard might start with both Boshoff and Goosen still having ****les.

So I havn't been able to find an article but apparently HM has been told by the SA government via the SARU chief exec that SA rugby needs to change and that the likes of Habana, JPP and Hendricks don't count as black. So don't be surprised to see Mohoje, Nyakane, Kolisi, Sithole and Mvovo in the matchday 23 for Scotland. It's actually a massive disservice to those players! Kolisi was part of last year's squad on merit with Botha injured. He has been troubled with ****ling injuries and hasn't been the player he as last year. I am sure getting 100% fit he'd be legitimately pushing for a spot again. Now the government interference will leave a shadow over his inclusion when it comes. Same for Nyakane; has been on and off for the Cheetahs but the politicians don't take form into account. Mvovo is on the fringes on merit as well and is the merit no.23 IMO but certainly behind Le Roux and Habana and though personally I'd have had him ahead of Hendricks the latter has been taking his chances at 14. I suppose that is the trouble with versatility and Mvovo won't be the first versatile backline player not to start due to offering versatility off the bench IE it's not a black vs white thing at all. On Mohoje and Sithole, it's true they've been looking exciting for their franchizes but it's their 1st season FFS, guys like Pollard and Serfontein have been looking far better for far longer and have only recently broken into the squad on the back of availability issues for others. It is simply ridiculous for them to be mentioned as possible starters at this stage. Their inclusion in the squad as long term projects I can understand though. But seriously considering them options for next year's world cup? You can't be serious. Not that they aren't good players but it's just too soon for them next year. Hell, it's too soon for Pollard next year and this is a guy who has been groomed to be a part of Bok rugby for some time now.

I also can't find a link, and I'm sure that HM won't keep quiet if that's the case. HM will keep on picking players based on merit, and won't just pick someone because they are a quota. I think if this has been said via the grapevine, then SARU should be careful, as there will be a major upheaval again if that's the case. I know guys like Breyton Paulse and Ashwin Willemse won't take this lightly and will campaign against the Quota plan. that being said, there's no point in talking about this, if there's no link or article to substantiate such claims.

Between Matfield, Van der Merwe and De Jager we have the locks covered for now while Etzebeth should be ready for the RC though PSdT seems to be set only to return in 2015. So Botha won't be missed. Paul Willemse and Stephan Lewies are the guy I see as having an outside chance to force selections still.

Arno Botha also only due back in 2015. Vermeulen, Alberts and Burger will probably be the starting backrow so Scotland will probably look to target the breakdown again. Kolisi and Coetzee will probably be the options HM will look at for the bench spot though it really should read 6Brussow, 7Alberts, 8Vermeulen 20Burger with Louw out if you ask me.

Man, you really like to mention the point of Arno Botha in many threads. I'm not worried about the Locks and the Backrow as much as others might be. We always have great players in those positions. I just hope Flip doesn't get a start, his infringements are starting to irritate the living **** out of me...

Hein, no mention of Pienaar or FdP? So we can assume they are available? I don't know how I feel about this..

10 will be interesting; which 2 of Goosen, Pollard and Boshoff HM will go with in the absence of the untouchable Steyn will be telling. Exciting! My bet is 10 Goosen, 22 Pollard if I know HM.

Saru has a seperate agreement with the Japanese Clubs, and FdP, JPP and Schalk Burger will be available for this game, as well as certain games in the RC. On Pienaar, I have no idea what the deal is, and if Ulster wants him back and when.

I would honestly start Pollard, he's in good form, he's match-ready and he's injury free. Why start Goosen, and risk him getting injured just before the RC??

No Olivier or Habana will either mean JPP goes to the wing to cover Habana and we bring in an actual 13 or Mvovo comes into the starting side to cover Habs. Opens up a spot for one of Engelbrecht or Sithole I'd presume. Someone who wasn't mentioned by the government but I have a lot of time for is Lionel Mapoe. I wouldn't have a problem with him coming in at 23 though I think he is another of our injured centers? None of this even matters though as De Allende has the spot already sewn up even if he hasn't been involved yet as far as I'm concerned!

HM said that he won't call up anymore players unless there is an injury, so it makes the list of possible candidates limited. I think HM will keep JPP at 13 with Serfontein at 12 to give the combination more time to work together. On the wing I think it will be just a simple swap of bringing in Mvovo in Habana's place and maybe bring in Sithole onto the bench to cover both Wing and Centre...

My possible match day 23 would look like this:

1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Coenie
4. Lood
5. Victor
6. Schalla
7. Mohoje (if Willem is injured)
8. Vermeulen

9. FdP
10. Pollard
11. Mvovo
12. Serfontein
13. JPP
14. Hendricks
15. WLR

16. Marcel v/d Merwe
17. Adriaan Strauss
18. Jannie Du Plessis
19. Flip v/d Merwe
20. Willem Alberts (if injured, someone else)
21. Francois Hougaard
22. Johan Goosen
23. Sithole

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Morne and Wynand is already on the plane back to France.

HM only has Goosen, Boshoff and Pollard to pick from for this game. My gut tells me that Pollard might start with both Boshoff and Goosen still having ****les.

I said as much and if Boshoff and Goosen aren't 100% then there is no reason to risk them with Pollard avaiable I agree. I can very much see HM start Goosen and bench Pollard though; it suits his MO; Goosen already has been in the fold for a while (even if injury has limited his game time for the bokke) and Pollard is the long-term option while HM probably won't cap Boshoff as he doesn't dish out caps if he can help it and has 3 currently capped 10's in Steyn, Goosen and Lambie and Pollard in the next in line and I see him on the bench as HM has started only a few on their debuts though Pollard has had enough pressure games to warrant a start for sure.

I also can't find a link, and I'm sure that HM won't keep quiet if that's the case. HM will keep on picking players based on merit, and won't just pick someone because they are a quota. I think if this has been said via the grapevine, then SARU should be careful, as there will be a major upheaval again if that's the case. I know guys like Breyton Paulse and Ashwin Willemse won't take this lightly and will campaign against the Quota plan. that being said, there's no point in talking about this, if there's no link or article to substantiate such claims.

There might not be any links yet but for sure there is political pressure and it is a reality in SA. But, yes, no concrete facts makes discussion a little bit difficult.

Man, you really like to mention the point of Arno Botha in many threads. I'm not worried about the Locks and the Backrow as much as others might be. We always have great players in those positions. I just hope Flip doesn't get a start, his infringements are starting to irritate the living **** out of me...

I do bring up Arno Botha's case, yes; someoone has to! As a Bulls supporter it should be you man! But seriously, he needs to get back to fitness as he reminds me of a young Juan Smith and even though we have quality back-up it would be nice to have our best team competing rather than the constant stop-gap team even if we are managing.

Saru has a seperate agreement with the Japanese Clubs, and FdP, JPP and Schalk Burger will be available for this game, as well as certain games in the RC. On Pienaar, I have no idea what the deal is, and if Ulster wants him back and when.

I would honestly start Pollard, he's in good form, he's match-ready and he's injury free. Why start Goosen, and risk him getting injured just before the RC??

I really do wish Pienaar won't be available. I wouldn't mind either of Goosen or Pollard starting; I want to see what both can do with good time outside of FdP and our forward pack going forwards. The thing is 10 is not so much the problem at this stage that 9 is. Having these guys play outside FdP is great but what do we have beyond FdP? Pienaar is useless. Hougaard looks lke he has gotten back some form even if he hasn't delivered fully on all the early promise but hasn't had the chance to show what that means for the test team and the others aren't in contention seemingly. So we are in a bit of a mist here.

HM said that he won't call up anymore players unless there is an injury, so it makes the list of possible candidates limited. I think HM will keep JPP at 13 with Serfontein at 12 to give the combination more time to work together. On the wing I think it will be just a simple swap of bringing in Mvovo in Habana's place and maybe bring in Sithole onto the bench to cover both Wing and Centre...

My possible match day 23 would look like this:

1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Coenie
4. Lood
5. Victor
6. Schalla
7. Mohoje (if Willem is injured)
8. Vermeulen

9. FdP
10. Pollard
11. Mvovo
12. Serfontein
13. JPP
14. Hendricks
15. WLR

16. Marcel v/d Merwe
17. Adriaan Strauss
18. Jannie Du Plessis
19. Flip v/d Merwe
20. Willem Alberts (if injured, someone else)
21. Francois Hougaard
22. Johan Goosen
23. Sithole

I'd be surprised if he shuffles the centers yes even if this is a makeshift combination at least it is now a combination with 2 games under the belt which is as much as we can hope for I suppose injuries considered. I like the 23 you name here (again that * of *injuries/availability considered that I keep hammering on) but I would be pleasently surprised if HM starts the likes of Oosthuizen, Pollard and De Jager etc over the more 'established' players; it's seemingly just not in his coaching DNA

 

[TRF_heineken]

I said as much and if Boshoff and Goosen aren't 100% then there is no reason to risk them with Pollard avaiable I agree. I can very much see HM start Goosen and bench Pollard though; it suits his MO; Goosen already has been in the fold for a while (even if injury has limited his game time for the bokke) and Pollard is the long-term option while HM probably won't cap Boshoff as he doesn't dish out caps if he can help it and has 3 currently capped 10's in Steyn, Goosen and Lambie and Pollard in the next in line and I see him on the bench as HM has started only a few on their debuts though Pollard has had enough pressure games to warrant a start for sure.


There might not be any links yet but for sure there is political pressure and it is a reality in SA. But, yes, no concrete facts makes discussion a little bit difficult.

We are in agreement here.

I do bring up Arno Botha's case, yes; someoone has to! As a Bulls supporter it should be you man! But seriously, he needs to get back to fitness as he reminds me of a young Juan Smith and even though we have quality back-up it would be nice to have our best team competing rather than the constant stop-gap team even if we are managing.

It doesn't help we keep on talking about him when he's out for the year. It's just discouraging to talk about players that is unavailable due to injury, and there's nothing we can do. We just have to wish him luck with the rehabilitation.

I really do wish Pienaar won't be available. I wouldn't mind either of Goosen or Pollard starting; I want to see what both can do with good time outside of FdP and our forward pack going forwards. The thing is 10 is not so much the problem at this stage that 9 is. Having these guys play outside FdP is great but what do we have beyond FdP? Pienaar is useless. Hougaard looks lke he has gotten back some form even if he hasn't delivered fully on all the early promise but hasn't had the chance to show what that means for the test team and the others aren't in contention seemingly. So we are in a bit of a mist here.

It's interesting, I think it's actually a good thing that Pienaar is available for this game. as the Super Rugby starts next week for the SA teams, and with the Sharks and Bulls still in contention to make the playoffs, I think it would be ill advised to let him call up guys now, just for one game, when the local teams are all getting back into the swing of things. If this makes any sense?

I'd be surprised if he shuffles the centers yes even if this is a makeshift combination at least it is now a combination with 2 games under the belt which is as much as we can hope for I suppose injuries considered. I like the 23 you name here (again that * of *injuries/availability considered that I keep hammering on) but I would be pleasently surprised if HM starts the likes of Oosthuizen, Pollard and De Jager etc over the more 'established' players; it's seemingly just not in his coaching DNA

It would be a nice 23, not that I think it will be the team...

 

[Gena_ZA]

It's front page news in the Pretoria Beeld today

Sorry it's in Afrikaans - http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2014-06-23-kies-n-swart-bokke

 

[TRF_heineken]

It's front page news in the Pretoria Beeld today

Sorry it's in Afrikaans - http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2014-06-23-kies-n-swart-bokke

Thanx Gena

I went to see if Beeld's english affiliates has something about this in English, but there's nothing I can find, not even on Sport24.

I wonder why that is, because Beeld is part of the Media24 group... Maybe they want the Afrikaans speaking people to get angry first, and then slowly let it die down before getting the English people also involved.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

It's front page news in the Pretoria Beeld today

Sorry it's in Afrikaans - http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2014-06-23-kies-n-swart-bokke

Just gets my blood pressure up.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Just gets my blood pressure up.

... and not in a good way...

I'm sure it Solidariteit won't leave it like it is. They said they will take this matter to the Constitutional Court. And I think it would be a very easy case for them to win, based on the right to equality. and that BEE doesn't apply to this area of work.