2014 Junior World Championship - June 2 to 20

[Ragey Erasmus]

Last year England U20's wins were put down to size as in pretty much every year. There is a point where it begins to wear thin. Size alone does not get you consistant wins with regular player swaps. A good academy system consistently producing high quality young players is what does it. England have been one of the dominant U20 side since the effects of the new academy system began to be felt. Now the England national team is going the same way as young people who have been through the new system are finally reaching the seniors. At what point will size no longer be an excuse for being beaten by England? What do England need to do to earn praise for simply playing better rugby than the opposition?

 

[profitius]

So England were dominant because Ireland were bad defensively now?

...I thought it was because the England lads have better s&c?

The reason they were on the front foot was because of their execution of basic skills at a pace the Irish couldn't live with - not because they were bigger... in fact the England team is on average smaller than the Irish one.

You said the English skills were far better than the Irish skills. I simply mentioned that the English defence and rucking was far superior to Irelands so their players had more time on the ball.

I didn't say anything negative about the English team. Their superior strength and conditioning is a fact, not an excuse. To say theres a massive skills gap between the teams is a bit off. What English players are more skilled than the Irish players? I'm interested in hearing your opinion.

 

[profitius]

It is the default excuse when our u20s lose. That the big bad Opposition team beat our poor slips of lads up. By putting it down to size, we somehow try to fool ourselves that we had the better footballers, which to anyone actually watching the game was clearly not the case.

The same excuse can be heard any time the Dublin hurlers beat a 'traditional' hurling county. Dublin couldn't out hurl them, so it can only be better strength & conditioning. It's a condacending, stubborn & unsporting unwillingness to praise the opposition.

The reality is that Ireland did very well to get out of the group, possibly overachieved truth be told. We were outclassed by a far superior team in the semi final. Could be another tough match v nz.

So we're not allowed to break things down now? England won, England faaaaaaaaar superior. Bitter Paddy. End of story. Close down the forum folks!

 

[goodNumber10]

You said the English skills were far better than the Irish skills. I simply mentioned that the English defence and rucking was far superior to Irelands so their players had more time on the ball.

I didn't say anything negative about the English team. Their superior strength and conditioning is a fact, not an excuse. To say theres a massive skills gap between the teams is a bit off. What English players are more skilled than the Irish players? I'm interested in hearing your opinion.

Is rucking and defence not a basic skill then?

I'd say it was one of the core components to Rugby. Did the Ireland U20 think they were going to a tip competition then?

 

[Rumpi]

So we're not allowed to break things down now? England won, England faaaaaaaaar superior. Bitter Paddy. End of story. Close down the forum folks!

No but give credit where it is due, they were far superior in every facet of rugby against our u20s, to simply put it down to size & conditioning is completely dismissive of the comprehensive nature of their win. Credit where it is due is all any of us as sports fans ask I'd imagine.

 

[profitius]

Is rucking and defence not a basic skill then?

I'd say it was one of the core components to Rugby. Did the Ireland U20 think they were going to a tip competition then?

Rucking yes, defence no.

 

[profitius]

No but give credit where it is due, they were far superior in every facet of rugby against our u20s, to simply put it down to size & conditioning is completely dismissive of the comprehensive nature of their win. Credit where it is due is all any of us as sports fans ask I'd imagine.

I am giving them credit but not getting carried away. I've backed them to win the competition and think they'll beat SA. Rugby isn't as simple as you think it is.

 

[big ginger 8]

Nominees for Player of the year are:

Ringrose
Earle
Pollard
Li

 

[goodNumber10]

Rucking yes, defence no.

what?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Rucking yes, defence no.

Whaaaa? Defence not a basic skill? Good god...

 

[Patchey]

I wish defense wasn't a basic skill, if be a much better rugby player...

 

[Feicarsinn]

Profitius confirmed as Ronan O'Gara

 

[profitius]

The Racing Metro defence coach

what?

Whaaaa? Defence not a basic skill? Good god...

Ah come on lads, its so basic its hardly worth talking about. You'd expect all players to be skilled in defence.

 

[Gena_ZA]

I know of a few international no 10's that would frown on that statement

 

[Joe Goodman]

Looking fwd to seeing the Irish take on the baby blacks, I've just mentored an Irish under 18 for the last 2 years, he's heading to Ulster this summer with good prospects!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The Racing Metro defence coach

Ah come on lads, its so basic its hardly worth talking about. You'd expect all players to be skilled in defence.

You've got to be joking...

 

[profitius]

Whaaaa? Defence not a basic skill? Good god...

You've got to be joking...

Want to add something technical to the debate instead of being shocked?

 

[profitius]

I know of a few international no 10's that would frown on that statement

And ironically 10s are usually the most skillful players on the pitch. Sums up my point perfectly.

 

[profitius]

Looking fwd to seeing the Irish take on the baby blacks, I've just mentored an Irish under 18 for the last 2 years, he's heading to Ulster this summer with good prospects!

Who is that, Joe? The Ireland U18s got to the fira final a few months back. It echoed the JWC semi with England running out easy winners.

 

[Captain Robshaw]

Not sure England's size is much of an issue when they're being compared with the Boks.. What are they feeding those guys?! Also surprised that the NZ test team have been going on about how England are the most physical team they face and not SA (wonder if SA are more of a threat and therefore they don't want to offer them any praise...)