[2014 EOYT] England vs South Africa

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Yarde was out injured for the All Blacks. Good to see him with another shot - though equally would be good to are Watson given a go. Yardes basics have gone out the window in the prem though he still looks lively in attack.

 

[j'nuh]

Are we thinking that Yarde will leapfrog Watson into the XV? I wouldn't be surprised if Watson got the nod, Lancaster and co. seeming to like continuity and all.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Watson is clearly the FB cover - I don't recall ever seeing Yarde play there.

...Having just typed that, I've just read that apparently he is starting with Yarde on the bench :lol: ...doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

May and Watson could cover 15 from the pitch, in theory.
I do think that Yarde will come straight in on the wing, though.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Papers seem confident it's Watson starting.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Bok team to be announced at lunch time today...

 

[The Jones Boy]

best of the rest i suppose...

sorry to say this but I feel very underwhelmed the wc is a year out and we are playing the best teams in the world and we are missing:

Our 2 first choice LH props
Our first choice hooker is moving to france effectively ending his chances of playing for England.
Our first choice TH prop.
Best 2nd row partnership.
The selection of 2 in form half backs (for the love of god pick Ford for at least 1 game!!!)
A settled centre partnership.

I am a big fan of Lancaster and you cannot help injuries but a 3 test tour of New Zealand was a bad idea and has only caused the aura of the All Blacks to grow bigger in the English players mind. Yes we could progress out of our group but without the like of Corbs, Cole and a fly half that can kick getting regular started I feel next year will be a massive disappointment as will be Saturday when the saffers rumble into town looking for blood.

I love it when the excuses come falling on top of each other.
The southern hemisphere teams are missing players, they have played incredibly long seasons behind them and they are still ploughing toward the last matches of their long year.
Northern hemisphere teams are fresh and ready to go with home advantage.
Please give the endless excuses a rest and get on with the rugby.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

To be fair Kruger was never known for his physicality. Our real problem at lock is although we don't lack options, they are all either aging Bakkies/Matfield or very young, Etzebeth, de Jager, Pieter Steph du Toit and Lewies. While all of the latter 4 players I rate highly, realistically they will only really be at their peaks for the 2019 WC being under 23, meaning we will still have to rely on the former for a while longer.

Yeah, Kruger isn't the 'enforcer' type (man, I have to find a better term for that) but he is a class lock ATM, no arguments allowed. As you said, Matfield/Botha are getting on and De Jager is still young and raw. Kruger is in fine form and could complemet Etzebeth well I am sure of it.

I honestly believe that if fit. Etzebeth and Pieter Steph du Toit should be our world cup pairing. They threw pollard into the deep end vs the all blacks an Etzebeth is already a starter. so why not do it with PSDT? I just don't have confidence in Bakkies and Matfield competing on the world stage for the biggest honour at their age.

To be fair, they wanted to do that with PSDT but due to injuries they couldn't.

HM has been vocal that he sees Etzebeth and PSDT as the future for the Boks in the lock position.

And @stormer2010 I disagree with you about Juandre, Kockott and Spedding, but that is a topic for another thread. Juandre had his chance at Lock for the boks, and he was a consistent underperformer. The June Test Series when England visited SA comes to mind. HM already has a core group to work with for next year's WC, and if injuries are kept to a minimum, our team will be one of the best around.

Our best team is definitely not in England at the moment. PSDT, Willem Alberts, Francois Louw, Fourie Du Preez are all guys who would be in the starting team was it not for injury...

It really comes down to - is it worth having one player in the side just for the sake of line-outs and leadership. When this was the case with John Smit I said no, but that was because BdP offered so much more, at this stage I'm happy that Victor starting is worthwhile.

PSdT is still injured and has been injured so long now I've decided to stop calling him an option along with Arno Botha. Two promising youngsters who'll miss out on the RWC beccause of serious injury unless they have massive SR seasons in 2015. But realistically they can't form part of discussion ATM anymore. As for Juandre underperforming for the Bokke 2 years ago, it's true but that was 2 years ago. Can I name another guy who it would've been fair to drop due to underperforming a while back; Habana. He is probably the 3rd name on our teamsheets now. Players change, requirements change. We've been in need of locks and he is a good option, trust me, so too Francois van der Merwe. I've been following Racing Metro and while I agree a lot of players that might perform overseas might not do so in Bok colors in the RC (Juan Smith with his shocker in Arg) but conditions are different in Europe and there have been plaenty of overseas based players who have added value.

Stormer - General Franco is fit and firing.

Oh, I forgotten he had left the Lions already. Thanks for the correction.

There is definitely a tendency to hoary stereotype that has us looking at the Bokke as possessor of massive physicality, right or wrong; but, even with a 'lightweight' Bok team, you expect a physical test. You know they will hit you as hard as they can. Which possibly plays into our hands with so many forwards out and no first rate crash centre - is Fourie fit now?.

Fourie du Preez or Jaque Fourie? Jaque is fit now supposedly, I am of the few that would like too see him in contention. HM has his eye on him and I would guess he is not considere 100% fit or up to the pace yet. FdP still out.

best of the rest i suppose...

sorry to say this but I feel very underwhelmed the wc is a year out and we are playing the best teams in the world and we are missing:

Our 2 first choice LH props
Our first choice hooker is moving to france effectively ending his chances of playing for England.
Our first choice TH prop.
Best 2nd row partnership.
The selection of 2 in form half backs (for the love of god pick Ford for at least 1 game!!!)
A settled centre partnership.

Man, I know how you feel. For SA we could do with our settled back row now as well though at least we don't have a problem at hooker which is probably a more key position. Though we have our form halfbacks ATM consistency is an issue. I suppose the phrase 'be careful what you wish for' is applicable here but I prefer us giving the younguns a go here even if they make mistakes rather than sticking to what we know and it's limitations.. names shall not be named.

The media chatter is that Heineke may start Cobus and Lambie this weekend at 9 and 10, I'm a bit torn on it, won't comment until it's announced.

Wouldn't mind Reinach in for Hougaard. Hougie is very much a confidence player but let him regain his confidence off the bench rather IMO. Giving Reinach a true chance might pay off, he has the goods. Pollard I'd keep but Lambie has been good with his chances of late and I can see dropping Pollard as motivating him rather than hitting his confidence if I read the player correctly.

Bok team to be announced at lunch time today...

Good, I go have lunch now.

 

[Maverick1987]

I love it when the excuses come falling on top of each other.
The southern hemisphere teams are missing players, they have played incredibly long seasons behind them and they are still ploughing toward the last matches of their long year.
Northern hemisphere teams are fresh and ready to go with home advantage.
Please give the endless excuses a rest and get on with the rugby.

Go away otherwise we are getting Nigel Owens on to you again you're playing scotland this week . You have your own thread . So be gone I'm bored of you NZ trolls now ....

 

[goodNumber10]

I love it when the excuses come falling on top of each other.
The southern hemisphere teams are missing players, they have played incredibly long seasons behind them and they are still ploughing toward the last matches of their long year.
Northern hemisphere teams are fresh and ready to go with home advantage.
Please give the endless excuses a rest and get on with the rugby.

He's not making excuses he's reasoning why he thinks England are not going to do well. big difference.

Now, can you either keep it on topic, pack in the idle trolling, or go do it in the NZ vs Scotland thread.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

South Africa

15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jan Serfontein, 12 Jean de Villiers (captain), 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Cobus Reinach, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis,2 Adriaan Strauss, 1 Beast Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Bismarck du Plessis, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Coenie Oosthuizen, 19 Bakkies Botha, 20 Teboho "Oupa" Mohoje, 21 Francois Hougaard, 22 Handré Pollard, 23 Cornal Hendricks


5 Players elevated to the starting XV, 5 dropped to the bench. All understandable if debatable. Underperforming players paying the price though JdV and Le Roux are lucky in this regard.

 

[SomeOke]

Hmmm interesting changes, I'm OK with them actually, Cobus for Hougard I think is a good change, defensively we may have issues but Reinach really offers more in most departments. With that being done, we might as well play the Sharks pairing that is familiar with each other Pollard has been great, but has had some not fantastic games (Arg games and Ire game) and I think some competition can only be healthy.
Lambie probably deserves some starting time at fly-half after being messed around so much. It's very ballsy but could pay off. One thing I will say about Lambie is that he doesn't often have bad games, he can be bang average yes, but very rarely does he single handedly cost the team (except for the odd place kick), he also might be better for these conditions.

Schalk for Mohoje was bound to happen at some point, it needs to be seen if Schalk can put in a good starting performance, where he contributes throughout. Strauss for Bismarck may just be rotation, and I'm not overly bothered Strauss may even be in better form of late.


The one thing to be taken from this is that Heyneke hasn't committed to his starting team yet, and there is still room for tweaking.

 

[goodNumber10]

as an opposing fan i'd much rather Lambie played against us than Pollard.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

South Africa

15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jan Serfontein, 12 Jean de Villiers (captain), 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Cobus Reinach, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Adriaan Strauss, 1 Beast Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Bismarck du Plessis, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Coenie Oosthuizen, 19 Bakkies Botha, 20 Teboho "Oupa" Mohoje, 21 Francois Hougaard, 22 Handré Pollard, 23 Cornal Hendricks

Bad call dropping Pollard in my opinion, he'd be far more suited to beating England than Lambie. It seems like a panic call from Meyer because I can't imagine any other half-back pairing to take South Africa to the World Cup other than Hougaard and Pollard, although I haven't watched any domestic rugby and very little S15 so my knowledge is limited, and this is exactly the sort of game they need and it would have done them a whole lot of good having to try and bounce back from a bad performance like last week. They've gone from having a superior 10 in Pollard to having one at about Farrell's level in Lambie, if not slightly worse, the selection suits England down to the ground and could easily lead South Africa to losing a game they must, and really should, win. (I'm not belittling England but SA were terrible last week and playing to their potential and winning is what I'd expected this weekend)

 

[Mikel92]

Good team for the Boks, strong as ever. Not sure if this is the game I'd be starting Lambie but it's a result of last week perhaps? I like Pollard and Bismarck du Plessis, would have been keen to see them in the 15. That's just me.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Agreed, Pollard and Bismarck I'd have kept. Not sure dropping Mohoje is warranted as he didn't make mistakes and both him and Burger weren't really adding overly much; I'd have gone outside of them if I were looking at brining in something new to the backrow. Hendricks should've dropped out of the matchday 23 completely IMO; what's the point of an out-and-out winger on the bench? Silly IMO. Hougaard making space for Reinach I am neutral on, I think Hougaard needs continuous games but I'd like to see Reinach get game time as well. Both have good running games. I am actually surprised that Hougaard never backed himself with the ball.

 

[SomeOke]

Don't underestimate Lambie, although I too am a bit nervy about dropping Pollard as I said though it's possible HM wants to keep combinations together, so by dropping Hougard he drops the Bulls pairing and promotes the Sharks pairing.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I like Cobus, but I hope he doesn't perform against us.

 

[TheSaffycen]

If we give away a lot of penalties again then I think Lambie could be a better option IMO. Anything within 55m and he could punish us, and England are terrible at chasing a lead.

 

[Guilty]

Game of the week for sure! Really not sure about the wholesale changes to the Boks, a little bit reactive for my liking and every team have off days... Lambie starting could be a big mistake. While I cannot see SA losing two in a row, England are due for a SH scalp so this one will be interesting! Boks by 3?