[2014 EOYT] England vs South Africa

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Farrell and barritt had poor tackling games last weekend hopefully that changes.

 

[goodNumber10]

Farrell and barritt had poor tackling games last weekend hopefully that changes.

did they? how so?

Unchanged other than Watson in for Roko.

happy with that.

 

[Patchey]

As expected. Interested to see what Watson does with some real game time.

 

[ratsapprentice]

This is the first game in a long time where I've felt that there is going to be some serious flack heading the England (mainly coaching) team's way if we don't win.

I'm kind of unsure as to how this game is going to go tbh, I'd expect at least one of the teams to seriously up their efforts from last week.
Perhaps even both of them will.

 

[Maverick1987]

Farrell and barritt had poor tackling games last weekend hopefully that changes.

I don't think Barritt had a bad tackling game . He got flattened by Savea once but Savea was basically stopped in the process . Same with Farrell imo I thought the tackling defence was really good actually . Breakdown defence needs some work but that's for another quote

 

[goodNumber10]

This is the first game in a long time where I've felt that there is going to be some serious flack heading the England (mainly coaching) team's way if we don't win.

I'm kind of unsure as to how this game is going to go tbh, I'd expect at least one of the teams to seriously up their efforts from last week.
Perhaps even both of them will.

i feel better now that Lambie is playing 10, not that i think he's rubbish but i think Pollard is fantastic and a game breaker..

 

[Bull]

England:

15 Mike Brown, 14 Anthony Watson, 13 Brad Barritt, 12 Kyle Eastmond, 11 Jonny May, 10 Owen Farrell, 9 Danny Care, 8 Billy Vunipola, 7 Chris Robshaw (captain), 6 Tom Wood, 5 Courtney Lawes, 4 Dave Attwood, 3 Dave Wilson, 2 Dylan Hartley, 1 Joe Marler
Substitues: 16 Robert Webber, 17 Matt Mullan, 18 Kieran Brookes, 19 George Kruis, 20 Ben Morgan, 21 Ben Youngs, 22 George Ford, 23 Marland Yarde

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I can't say I'm happy seeing Wood still in, we have no really physical players who can ensure we control the breakdown. I see England losing the breakdown battle again to SA, despite Roundtree saying they were focusing on it. Also not happy with Farrell at 10, ffs we are not going to have any cover at all if something happens to him before or during the WC. He gets injured and our next FH has single digit caps! I can't think of many teams in the world with such little cover there, eggs and baskets spring to mind. Happy that Watson is in though although neither of our wingers are the biggest physical specimens and I worry we are going to try to use them purely defensively. Neither May nor Watson will shine under those circumstances and even Roko and Nowell, who I consider our best defending wingers, hardly shine if that's all they are left to do.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Also not happy with Farrell at 10, ffs we are not going to have any cover at all if something happens to him before or during the WC. He gets injured and our next FH has single digit caps! I can't think of many teams in the world with such little cover there, eggs and baskets spring to mind.

Well South Africa was in that boat just 2 years ago. And on this EOYT we have 4 FH!! Handre Pollard, Pat Lambie, Johan Goosen and Morne Steyn...

 

[TommiG88]

I can't say I'm happy seeing Wood still in, we have no really physical players who can ensure we control the breakdown. I see England losing the breakdown battle again to SA, despite Roundtree saying they were focusing on it. Also not happy with Farrell at 10, ffs we are not going to have any cover at all if something happens to him before or during the WC. He gets injured and our next FH has single digit caps! I can't think of many teams in the world with such little cover there, eggs and baskets spring to mind. Happy that Watson is in though although neither of our wingers are the biggest physical specimens and I worry we are going to try to use them purely defensively. Neither May nor Watson will shine under those circumstances and even Roko and Nowell, who I consider our best defending wingers, hardly shine if that's all they are left to do.

I'm not happy either, but I've come to know that Lancaster is loyal to his favourites.

I would have even looked at dropping Brown as he has been poor since the 6N and Foden has hit a rich vein of form. However, I'm not the England manager, so what do I know?

Perfect back row wouldn't have Farrell in the team and maybe not on the bench in this form. I think I would have Cipriani over Ford though.

 

[goodNumber10]

Well South Africa was in that boat just 2 years ago. And on this EOYT we have 4 FH!! Handre Pollard, Pat Lambie, Johan Goosen and Morne Steyn...

I think too much is being made of Ford having single digit caps by my English colleagues....

i think Farrell is clearly the first choice 10, why hold back team and player development because you want to give someone else experience - especially against the top 3.

 

[stus768]

I think too much is being made of Ford having single digit caps by my English colleagues....

i think Farrell is clearly the first choice 10, why hold back team and player development because you want to give someone else experience - especially against the top 3.

But he wasn't given a start against Scotland or Italy last year. We are dangerously thin on experience there.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think too much is being made of Ford having single digit caps by my English colleagues....

i think Farrell is clearly the first choice 10, why hold back team and player development because you want to give someone else experience - especially against the top 3.

Well firstly Farrell has done nothing to put him above the competition so why is he getting such a disproportionate amount of game time? If he was far better than the others then it would be understandable but he isn't. It's arguable he isn't even our best choice. We are giving all the game time to a flyhalf who may not even be our best and what happens if he gets an injury? We then go into the world cup with a flyhalf who has had no time in the team and somehow expect them to perform up to the level required? Remember Ashton and Goode were also our clear first choices, do you think they did anything to promote team or player development? Nope, they did a LOT to hold it back though by denying better people their positions. Farrell is doing that now.

 

[Big Ewis]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152573427134825

 

[goodNumber10]

Well firstly Farrell has done nothing to put him above the competition so why is he getting such a disproportionate amount of game time? If he was far better than the others then it would be understandable but he isn't. It's arguable he isn't even our best choice. We are giving all the game time to a flyhalf who may not even be our best and what happens if he gets an injury? We then go into the world cup with a flyhalf who has had no time in the team and somehow expect them to perform up to the level required? Remember Ashton and Goode were also our clear first choices, do you think they did anything to promote team or player development? Nope, they did a LOT to hold it back though by denying better people their positions. Farrell is doing that now.

You may not think he's first choice but they clearly do and that is what matters......

With that in mind he has only 26 caps, so hardly a decades worth of experience, especially for a fly half, but by playing ford you eat into Farrells exposure and end up with two fly halfs with low numbers, and neither with the relevent experience.

Ford is in and around the squad, he gets run on's and will get his starts... and if experience is as imprtant as you all make out then surely against the top 3, when you must get win as everyone here is saying you play your more experienced fly half.

Either pick ford because he's the best or let him sit on the bench - i get that.

 

[TommiG88]

You may not think he's first choice but they clearly do and that is what matters......

With that in mind he has only 26 caps, so hardly a decades worth of experience, especially for a fly half, but by playing ford you eat into Farrells exposure and end up with two fly halfs with low numbers, and neither with the relevent experience.

Ford is in and around the squad, he gets run on's and will get his starts... and if experience is as imprtant as you all make out then surely against the top 3, when you must get win as everyone here is saying you play your more experienced fly half.

Either pick ford because he's the best or let him sit on the bench - i get that.

I disagree. His "run outs" are literally that. SL has a reluctance to take off OF at any stage in the game giving Ford or another 10 a chance of getting international game time. If we lose like we did in NZ over the summer (where we played an attacking brand of rugby) SL will be applauded. Losing closely to a team or losing whilst actually trying something different is still a loss afterall. We lacked defensive cohesion in the summer in the backs, I see it as we either play Farrell at 10 with 2 attacking centres or play a defensive minded centre alongside an attacking fly half. I don't mind seeing Barritt at 13 if we had Ford/Cipriani wearing the 10 shirt. Even having Farrell at 12 could work if you had a quick/strong runner outside of him.

OF hasn't had the game time to be straight into the side in my opinion. Look at NZ, Carter is slowly being integrated back. We should have started with Cipriani or Ford over these AI as the former played in NZ over the summer and showed glimpses of what he's about.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

You may not think he's first choice but they clearly do and that is what matters......

With that in mind he has only 26 caps, so hardly a decades worth of experience, especially for a fly half, but by playing ford you eat into Farrells exposure and end up with two fly halfs with low numbers, and neither with the relevent experience.

Ford is in and around the squad, he gets run on's and will get his starts... and if experience is as imprtant as you all make out then surely against the top 3, when you must get win as everyone here is saying you play your more experienced fly half.

Either pick ford because he's the best or let him sit on the bench - i get that.

You have opposed blooding new players for as long as I can remember. Look at the team Lancaster started with and tell me just how many players are you glad we didn't keep merely because they were the most experienced and how many new players you are glad got proper exposure. Where does Farrell excel? He's not the iceman people like to pretend he is and just resorts to aimless kicking then things get tough. He can't handle pressure at all. He isn't anything special at penalty kicks, he's poor at running, poor at distribution and good at tackling. He can't be relied on to up the tempo of a game or switch things round as he's extremely predictable. He isn't our best Flyhalf and should not be gobbling up all the caps preventing better flyhalves from playing and showing what they can do for England.

When has Ford started a game for England? The best he gets is 10-15 minutes at the end of games that are either already won or lost.

 

[Geordie]

Farrell is a problem.

Fit and on form i can safely yes is a good player...a general in there at 10. he tackles, and kicks etc. though he needs a playmaker outside him.

However at the moment he has not recovered from his summer injury and is blatantly off form. This takes away his bread and butter stuff and makes him an average club player.

Ford or even Cipriani should have been trialled this AI for two reasons...

1) To give us a genuine back up 10...or may even identify that lo behold he's far better than Farrell.
2) To give Farrell a rest. Pointless running the lad into the ground when he's blatantly not fit or in form....

Lancaster then wins all round.

 

[goodNumber10]

You have opposed blooding new players for as long as I can remember.

No. I'm against wasting test match rugby by giving people game time for game times sake. I've always said pick the best player if they are ready, regardless of caps/experience.

Look at the team Lancaster started with and tell me just how many players are you glad we didn't keep merely because they were the most experienced and how many new players you are glad got proper exposure.

See above, a lot of the players under Johnson were past their sell by date, it was time to bring in better players, and i think for the most part that's the approach he took.

Where does Farrell excel? He's not the iceman people like to pretend he is and just resorts to aimless kicking then things get tough. He can't handle pressure at all. He isn't anything special at penalty kicks, he's poor at running, poor at distribution and good at tackling. He can't be relied on to up the tempo of a game or switch things round as he's extremely predictable. He isn't our best Flyhalf and should not be gobbling up all the caps preventing better flyhalves from playing and showing what they can do for England.

I don't disagree, but he is THEIR first choice, and i don't think they should just throw Ford in if they feel Farrell is the better option to give him some experience, certainly not against the 2nd best team in the world.

When has Ford started a game for England? The best he gets is 10-15 minutes at the end of games that are either already won or lost.

why are you asking me?

You seem to think I don't like Ford, or think he's much cop neither of which is true. The point i'm making in all of this is you guys can't have it both ways.

You can't say Ford needs experience but Farrell doesn't - he's only got 24 and has 26 caps he still needs to get that experience, he's only just settling into being an international 10 and he's far from the complete article.

You can't then say pick the best player, but oh, also pick this guy because he needs experience it has to be one or the other and you're all just contradicting yourself..

Now if Farrell is their choice as the best 10 then he deserves the game time, if he isn't then ford deserves to play.

 

[stus768]

You have opposed blooding new players for as long as I can remember. Look at the team Lancaster started with and tell me just how many players are you glad we didn't keep merely because they were the most experienced and how many new players you are glad got proper exposure. Where does Farrell excel? He's not the iceman people like to pretend he is and just resorts to aimless kicking then things get tough. He can't handle pressure at all. He isn't anything special at penalty kicks, he's poor at running, poor at distribution and good at tackling. He can't be relied on to up the tempo of a game or switch things round as he's extremely predictable. He isn't our best Flyhalf and should not be gobbling up all the caps preventing better flyhalves from playing and showing what they can do for England.

When has Ford started a game for England? The best he gets is 10-15 minutes at the end of games that are either already won or lost.

Agree with this. He is lauded as being mentally tough but there is not real evidence to show he is. His kicking out of hand is average to really poor. Although Englands kick chase is dire. I can see no reason to put him at IC. He has little running game is ok at passing, is average to poor at kicking and he is a solid defender. How would he stand out? Only reason to put him there is for goal kicking. Which Ford is not great at.