[2014 EOYT] England vs South Africa

[TRF_heineken]

well it is though. I know that. He uhm. Told me. Plus he wouldn't have told that to some French journalist asking him questions about his integration in the Racing contingent and France in general...there might be 20 South Africans in the world who read that interview. You can play abroad and get selected by the Bokkke.
And the things I've mentioned are fact, things I've seen every weekend for the past year and a half watching Racing. Then whether he's right or not for the Boks is another story, and I only have so much ink left in my quill.

The thing I don't like about Juandre is that he is a greedy guy. He showed so much promise when he was with the Bulls U/20 squad. Some even named him the next Pierre Spies.

Then the year after that he went to England to play for Northampton Saints. Then he came back, got called up to the Boks, and then went to France. He's selfish.

 

[Peat]

Stormer - General Franco is fit and firing.

I just read somewhere that the Ford/Farrell combo only lost twice in five years? Is that true?

Probably. That age group for England was brutally dominant. Has to be questioned how much they played together though, what with Ford being two years younger.

 

[ratsapprentice]

They definitely didn't play in the same team for 5 years straight... Ford only played in the u20's for one season and the u18's for 2.
So even if he played every single game with Farrell outside him he only would have been able to play with him for 3 years.

 

[Patchey]

Yeah, I wasn't convinced they could have played together for five years tbh!?

I guess by being so opposed to Farrell at 12 I am being a tad hypocritical. I've previously said I though a creative 10 with a defensive 12 outside could work, and would have liked to see Barritt play outside Ford or Cips. So if I was to be totally fair minded I'd want to give Fazlet a shot. However, having seen him play 12 at senior level...

 

[Big Ewis]

The thing I don't like about Juandre is that he is a greedy guy. He showed so much promise when he was with the Bulls U/20 squad. Some even named him the next Pierre Spies.

Wowww !!!!!!
...


And I don't think he's selfish personally, some times we don't know all the story and we only have so much information given to us by the internet and we draw conclusions fast and furiously and even in spite of Paul Walker's death an incomplete puzzle can only tell so much and a partially true conclusion can sometimes be wrong. Who knows his conditions, the finances, his aspirations, the weight of his ball sack, who knows these things ? Not us. I think we'd need to be behind the curtains, behind the curtain showers with him in the bathtub in all tranquility to listen to his mouth do the talking from his heart rather than make up our minds based on a mere event-following report of his professional history. Maybe there's more to it, maybe one is heavier than the other...we do not know. All we know is he does definitely dream of playing for the Boks, and it's not like that's impossible given the Boks' policy over oversea players. Do not oversee that point but now back on topic please you're always derailing threads with your strange bizarre digressions England are going to get smashed please thank you.

 

[Peat]

- ITO a drop in physicality due to injury Alberts>Mohoje/Burger, Anyone>Matfield (we have literally 4 front line locks out though Matfield has done very well for a 37/8 year old), Etzebeth2012>Etzbeth2014 (that long injury lay off has not been kind on the lad's explosiveness) FLouw>Coetzee (though Coetzee has the better work rate the accumalitive effect is a noticable drop in go-forward ball and overall dominance in contact) Malherbe/MvdM>JdP and it's not just in the forwards though that's where it's hurt the most but JPP>Hendricks (though JPP is seemingly back in good nick now). JdV keeps being a bit of a liability in defense and while he is captain, many have been wondering whether the inclusion of Frans Steyn at 12 or moving Serfontein back to 12 and bringing in Jaque Fourie, JdJ or some youngster won't close a hole in the midfield and up the presence at least in that area if not our potency on attack as well. The inclusion of Pollard is a big + over M Steyn though while I'm talking physicality.

There is definitely a tendency to hoary stereotype that has us looking at the Bokke as possessor of massive physicality, right or wrong; but, even with a 'lightweight' Bok team, you expect a physical test. You know they will hit you as hard as they can. Which possibly plays into our hands with so many forwards out and no first rate crash centre - is Fourie fit now?

Yeah, I wasn't convinced they could have played together for five years tbh!?

I guess by being so opposed to Farrell at 12 I am being a tad hypocritical. I've previously said I though a creative 10 with a defensive 12 outside could work, and would have liked to see Barritt play outside Ford or Cips. So if I was to be totally fair minded I'd want to give Fazlet a shot. However, having seen him play 12 at senior level...

Fazlet isn't that defensively sure tbh. He likes to shoot up and put the hits in and is great at it, but he can overdo it. He's also got to learn he can't go high on people like Nonu. He's no organiser like Barritt either. There's worse choices (defensively) but I'd never pick him for his defence alone at 12.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

^ Indeed. In fact Fazlet missed the most tackles (4) of anyone on Saturday.

Interesting that when asked for positives, Lancaster said the pack were excellent. He didn't mention the packs and perhaps we can infer his disappointment with the rest. Who though? May and Roko were fine, and eastmond excellent. Barritt not bad, if lacking in impact. My point is that leaves the halfies and Brown - in my opinion Lancaster wasn't happy with any of them and might be considering changes in all three positions but most likely at half back.

 

[Peat]

If he thought the pack went well, I'm questioning what match he was watching. New Zealand's forwards had no problem in their Munster-esque march forwards for Faumaiana's try. How much good ball did we get from our pack? Why did they come onto the ball at pace so rarely?

Don't get me wrong, plenty of good things they did, but plenty to fix as well. Scrum was pretty touch and go until we brought on our sub props as well.

I thought the biggest positive was the wingers' defence. You could clearly see that New Zealand expected to make hay out there and NOPE. Or at least, not through the wingers.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Faumuina's try really was awful to watch.

 

[Patchey]

Maybe I should have said 'conservative' rather than defensive. Certainly his defense is far superior to his attack. But yes, he's no defensive organiser.

Faumuina's try really was awful to watch.

It was a fairly neat summary of why NZ are so good and why we can't beat them though.

 

[goodNumber10]

^ Indeed. In fact Fazlet missed the most tackles (4) of anyone on Saturday.

Interesting that when asked for positives, Lancaster said the pack were excellent. He didn't mention the packs and perhaps we can infer his disappointment with the rest. Who though? May and Roko were fine, and eastmond excellent. Barritt not bad, if lacking in impact. My point is that leaves the halfies and Brown - in my opinion Lancaster wasn't happy with any of them and might be considering changes in all three positions but most likely at half back.

As i said earlier though, what was the outcome of those missed tackles? Did they lead to line breaks or did the ball carrier step back into the cover defence. If you shoot like he does you will get stepped, but the pressure is enough to force a decision often people take the safer option and head back to their support. It's also a natural extension of the Sarries system where the second defender flys out and the 1st steps in behind him.

Agree with you about the half backs, they did struggle on saturday, and i'm a fan of Farrell..

 

[yaboyjj]

England 23 named for the game now.... Roko out, Yarde in is the big news (hip problem). The Hask has stayed with the squad too as precautionary cover for Wood who sat out training today.
http://www.englandrugby.com/news/injured-rokoduguni-out-yarde-squad-for/
Looks like the same team for Saturday though :/ I wonder if Watson gets a start on the wing or remains on the bench as back 3 cover (this seems most likely)

 

[ratsapprentice]

[h=3]England squad to face South Africa[/h] Forwards (14)
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, captain)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Backs (10)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Marland Yarde (Harlequins)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Roko's out injured, trained today but not fit enough for the game apparently. Very annoying.

And on Haskell's inclusion:

"Tom [Wood] is still sore from the weekend and sat out training so we are including five back rows to give us options before we announce the side on Thursday morning.â€

It was a fairly neat summary of why NZ are so good and why we can't beat them though.

Meh... it was more a demonstration of our complete lack of presence at the breakdown.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Very disappointing to see that Roko is out, though I'm very happy to see Haskell potentially in the 23.

 

[yaboyjj]

Very disappointing to see that Roko is out, though I'm very happy to see Haskell potentially in the 23.

Yes me too, gave a good account of himself in defense and would have liked to see what he can do with ball in hand, saying that Yarde did look threatening in the summer and deserves another shot.
I realy hope Haskell can displace Wood- not holding my breath though. Bomber has pretty much flat out said that he wants the same starting 15 this week, a chance of 'redemption' :huh:

 

[j-dawg]

Wowww !!!!!!
...


And I don't think he's selfish personally, some times we don't know all the story and we only have so much information given to us by the internet and we draw conclusions fast and furiously and even in spite of Paul Walker's death an incomplete puzzle can only tell so much and a partially true conclusion can sometimes be wrong. Who knows his conditions, the finances, his aspirations, the weight of his ball sack, who knows these things ? Not us. I think we'd need to be behind the curtains, behind the curtain showers with him in the bathtub in all tranquility to listen to his mouth do the talking from his heart rather than make up our minds based on a mere event-following report of his professional history. Maybe there's more to it, maybe one is heavier than the other...we do not know. All we know is he does definitely dream of playing for the Boks, and it's not like that's impossible given the Boks' policy over oversea players. Do not oversee that point but now back on topic please you're always derailing threads with your strange bizarre digressions England are going to get smashed please thank you.

Does that come with rice?

 

[McTallshort]

best of the rest i suppose...

sorry to say this but I feel very underwhelmed the wc is a year out and we are playing the best teams in the world and we are missing:

Our 2 first choice LH props
Our first choice hooker is moving to france effectively ending his chances of playing for England.
Our first choice TH prop.
Best 2nd row partnership.
The selection of 2 in form half backs (for the love of god pick Ford for at least 1 game!!!)
A settled centre partnership.

I am a big fan of Lancaster and you cannot help injuries but a 3 test tour of New Zealand was a bad idea and has only caused the aura of the All Blacks to grow bigger in the English players mind. Yes we could progress out of our group but without the like of Corbs, Cole and a fly half that can kick getting regular started I feel next year will be a massive disappointment as will be Saturday when the saffers rumble into town looking for blood.

 

[SomeOke]

The media chatter is that Heineke may start Cobus and Lambie this weekend at 9 and 10, I'm a bit torn on it, won't comment until it's announced.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I hope Yarde plays well and not as he has domestically. Roko was pretty solid against the ABs and I hope he is back soon. Glad to see Haskell is in.

 

[Kjartan Pittúr]

I did'nt found Yarde that bad at Quins. Needed some time to settle in, but I didn't understand, why he was left out completely against the AB. Good to see, that he gets another shot.

Besides, all the best to Roko. He's a good lad and played a short time in Germany for Hannover.