[2014 EOYT] England vs South Africa

[Big Ewis]

Location: Twickenham, London, England
Ref: Steve Walsh (Australia)
Date: November 15th 2014
​

 

[TRF_heineken]

Oh great! another shiitty referee for the Boks!!

One thing is for sure, the Boks will be fired up, mainly because I think HM is still busy reading the riot act since Saturday after the Irish test...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

While I'm, not particulalry fond of Walsh as a ref from a neutral's POV he has been good for us in the past. We're just going to have to be accurate and disciplined. I don't think motivation and intensity will be a problem for this fixture..

Alberts not coming in any time soon? Him and Louw are being missed in Euro conditions. I'd also consider starting JPP ahead of Hendricks on the heavier fields. Might sound stupid but I'd give Hougaard another go.

 

[TRF_heineken]

While I'm, not particulalry fond of Walsh as a ref from a neutral's POV he has been good for us in the past. We're just going to have to be accurate and disciplined. I don't think motivation and intensity will be a problem for this fixture..

Alberts not coming in any time soon? Him and Louw are being missed in Euro conditions. I'd also consider starting JPP ahead of Hendricks on the heavier fields. Might sound stupid but I'd give Hougaard another go.

To be honest, I would keep the team as they were against Ireland. One bad performance shouldn't call for a major overhaul, Our guys were rusty, that was clear as day, and Hougaard's mistakes was purely timing. He tried to speed up the game, but in haste, he made mistakes. Reinach wasn't good either when he came on, and it was his defensive error that caused the Bowe try.

I see there are reports that Jano Vermaak and Pat Lambie might start against England...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'm not suggesting a major overhaul, I am suggesting JPP in for Hendricks. One change at the wing is hardly an overhaul. While you don't want knee-jerk reactions, there should be consequences to poor play; the guys need to know they have to work for their jersey every game. As is:

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JPP also made a big impact coming on against NZ. While Hendricks has done good filling in while JP was injured I think there is no doubt JPP is the better option with conditions heavier under foot. Do we really want to go into another tough match without our strongest XV coming off a loss? All Hendricks did in 60 minutes was drop 2 tackles and make 1.. just.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm not suggesting a major overhaul, I am suggesting JPP in for Hendricks. One change at the wing is hardly an overhaul. While you don't want knee-jerk reactions, there should be consequences to poor play; the guys need to know they have to work for their jersey every game. As is:

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JPP also made a big impact coming on against NZ. While Hendricks has done good filling in while JP was injured I think there is no doubt JPP is the better option with conditions heavier under foot. Do we really want to go into another tough match without our strongest XV coming off a loss? All Hendricks did in 60 minutes was drop 2 tackles and make 1.. just.

Yeah, JPP is in good nick, but to be fair to Hendricks, he didn't get any opportunities against the Irish, He overran a pass, but that was about it.

 

[goodNumber10]

England Squad for the week:

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/lancaster-names-squad-for-week/

Loose-head props
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)

Tight-head props
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
Henry Thomas (Bath Rugby)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)

Hookers
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)

Locks
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)

Back rows
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, captain)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

Scrum halves
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

Fly halves
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)

Centres
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)

Back threes
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Marland Yarde (Harlequins)

 

[Patchey]

Henry Thomas? In contention for a place against South Africa? We're doomed.

Interesting to see Lawes there, he looked pretty spaced out so in a little surprised.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yeah, JPP is in good nick, but to be fair to Hendricks, he didn't get any opportunities against the Irish, He overran a pass, but that was about it.

It might be part of the game plan or defence plan (if so there's a problem right there) but having played on the wing most of my life not getting a single touch of the ball is just inexcusable. Fielding kicks, tackling (on the wing it usually takes time for support to arrive at the ruck and there is opportunity for turn overs ala Habana), coming across to add another man in the line on the other side, all good ways to inject yourself into the game. I simply can't fathom the fact that Hendricks' entire contribution consists of 1 tackle and 3 errors.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Henry Thomas? In contention for a place against South Africa? We're doomed.

Interesting to see Lawes there, he looked pretty spaced out so in a little surprised.

Yeah, Lawes didn't look well at all, even when they showed him sitting on the bench. Maybe they'll do another test later in the week, just to make sure he's okay...

 

[goodNumber10]

this could turn out to be a really good game, both teams pretty solid upfront, both trying to expand their traditional strengths to be more open and attractive... could be a real cracker.

 

[Maverick1987]

this could turn out to be a really good game, both teams pretty solid upfront, both trying to expand their traditional strengths to be more open and attractive... could be a real cracker.

Hope the weather stays good ... Could really bring eastmond, may and roko into the game

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

this could turn out to be a really good game, both teams pretty solid upfront, both trying to expand their traditional strengths to be more open and attractive... could be a real cracker.

One thing is for sure the intensity will be there. Hope both teams can up the accuracy of their execution and we'll be treated to a classic I am sure.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Will be really disappointed if Lawes misses out - he's an experienced player by now and leads by example - not that throwing your self face first into someones knee is a good idea!

Both teams are in a bit of a corner now which should produce a really intense game - the loser will really have to do some soul searching; this wil be the first tour in which South Africa haven't gone unbeaten for.....how long? England now find themselves in a position where, if we lose next week, then even if we beat both Samoa and Australia we can't claim to have made tangible steps forward from 2 years ago results-wise. However, that means beating the worlds second best side. That's what I call a rock and a hard place.

I haven't rewatched the England game so haven't done ratings but for me the problems included:

As predicted, Farrell wasn't sharp at all and didn't add much at all apart from spirit. Ford is the form guy, and sorry to drag this back to the debate about Farrell versus Ford but the latter is now no nearer to having significant international experience to speak of, on top of which we've now lost another game!

Care is the best we've got but I still felt his decision making wasn't good enough. Indecisive at key moments such as in the build up to our butchered 2nd try attempt. Kicking was also poor. I'll say it again, what we need most of all is a scrum half who can run the game first, and run the ball second.

Billy V was alright but lacked influence on the game; pretty much nulified in fact. I prefer Ben.

Tom Woods questionable value: Haskell?

Not giving our wingers any real ball whatsoever.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The Ireland loss, was the first loss HM had since he was appointed as Head Coach for the Boks in the NH.

HM knows how to play in the NH, he used to coach Leicester Tigers for 3 years. I think that the Boks will be a whole different side than the team that pitched up in Ireland. Especially after not playing for more than 3 weeks. A loss is also a good way to bring a team back to earth and to focus.

 

[unrated]

I'm not suggesting a major overhaul, I am suggesting JPP in for Hendricks. One change at the wing is hardly an overhaul. While you don't want knee-jerk reactions, there should be consequences to poor play; the guys need to know they have to work for their jersey every game. .

JPP Should start in wing. At the end of the day we have to be honest. We are now playing on heavier fields in the NH and the as much is i would like to see us playing entertaining running rugby, I believe that we should play more tactical rugby against England (go for goal rather than lineout ). Anyone for Jaque Fourie making a return?

 

[TRF_heineken]

JPP Should start in wing. At the end of the day we have to be honest. We are now playing on heavier fields in the NH and the as much is i would like to see us playing entertaining running rugby, I believe that we should play more tactical rugby against England (go for goal rather than lineout ). Anyone for Jaque Fourie making a return?

In the place of JDV yes!! Jan IMHO was outstanding against Ireland and got us over the advantage line quite a few times.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I'm just glad that after an England game our centres aren't the talking point @HenryChinaski - I think bringing in Haskell (if fit) is the best idea for our pack. Vunipola was nullifed because he was the only real threat with ball in hand, Haskell will add alot of power into the back row. If he's not fit than Ewers could be the option, as physical as the Saffers and he can give go forward ball in any situation.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Agree about Haskell - he's hugely powerful, a strong carrier, great at the breakdown and a strong leader - the only hesitation I have is whether he's in full shape again after his illness - apparently he lost 5 kilos in that week/ But yes I would bring him in without hesitation.

I would also question whether our hedging out bets with regards to Vunipola and Ben Morgan is healthy - it limits our ability to have a flanker with impact on the bench, for example when we're losing out at the breakdown - bringing on Morgan is never going to be the answer; personally although Vunipola/Morgan is a great dilemna to have, I think we need to be brave and choose 1 not 2. Having a Haskell or Kvesic on the bench might have changed the breakdown contest and changed the dynamic of the game.
@TheSaffycen I agree with you about the centres but unfortunately I feel it's more a of a 'jury's out' situation - we didn't have much phase play through the backs which is why there's not much to say about it....Eastmond was great though. Barritt missed an abnormal number of tackles from memory as well?

 

[Icemn]

no way in hell SA is winning this one... that wasnt even Englands 1st team that faced NZ the weekend passed...