2014 6 Nations: Wales vs France (Round 3)

[goodNumber10]

If you are quoting OGara correctly, then he should be going home. And at the rate Racing are going in the league here and if he is really making these statements about how Top 14 rugby he will be on his way back to Munster sooner than he thinks.
And his input in training from talking to people on the ground at Racing is not limited to kicking. He also works with the rest of the team he is essentially an assistant coach.
I take what u said about his words on TOp14 rugby with a pinch of salt because when he sits down with his president to review his coaching contribution to his team and if he has been making disparaging comments on the game here and Lorenzetti hears about it, well good luck to OGara and his cozy little life in Paris.....

O'Gara is not saying anything different to that which a lot of other Top 14 coaches are voicing all the time.

 

[FrenchFan]

O'Gara is not saying anything different to that which a lot of other Top 14 coaches are voicing all the time.

you should watch the Top14 instead of listening to an Irish rookie coach with 6months of coaching under his belt. I saw 3 cracking games Top 14 over the weekend. Watch the Top 14 then you might sound like you know what u talking about

 

[goodNumber10]

you make a lot of assumptions.

What O'Gara says is nothing to do with the quality of games but everything to do with the attitude of French players within the system - lack of willingness to train, to play to any system to observe discipline away from the pitch.

Lot's of coaches have spoken on this, and not just anglophile coaches either.

 

[FrenchFan]

you make a lot of assumptions.

What O'Gara says is nothing to do with the quality of games but everything to do with the attitude of French players within the system - lack of willingness to train, to play to any system to observe discipline away from the pitch.

Lot's of coaches have spoken on this, and not just anglophile coaches either.

I have not made any assumptions. It was not clearly reported what OGara said. If you're going to quote someone then do it properly. In any case, he should focus on what he contributes to the Racing because they are an awful side. And if he wants to keep his job it'd better knuckle down and not make too many comments on the quality of Top 14 play.

 

[Rumpi]

coming from THE perenial underachievers of World rugby that is hilarious. Look at your record in Paris, look at our record in WC compared to yours. Don't make me laugh!

Ah now don't go getting all upset. I just mean under this manager France are terrible. You have some brilliant players but you are playing like a team of strangers, to a terrible system. That is frustrating.

I have huge respect for french rugby, i just dont understand how you keep selecting awful managers and then sticking with them. You have the players to win this 6 nations at a canter. You might still win it but PSA looks out of his depth.

I know our shortcomings well enough, Under achievers? Don't think so, we're just generally not very good. People think our players are better then they are based on a flawed European cup structure where we field teams full of international players against club sides and then we wonder why we win.

 

[FrenchFan]

O'Gara is not saying anything different to that which a lot of other Top 14 coaches are voicing all the time.

I am in Toulouse for a few decades. Haven't heard Noves voicing anything like this before. Noves wouldn't hire OGara as his chauffeur.

 

[goodNumber10]

I am in Toulouse for a few decades. Haven't heard Noves voicing anything like this before. Noves wouldn't hire OGara as his chauffeur.

Well Tolouse is not your average French Club are they? They've been the European standard setters for getting on towards two decades now, they are about as far from your average French Rugby club as Man utd are from a local pub team.

*Edit: Barcelona would have been a better example.

 

[Rumpi]

Dont mind O'Gara lads, he's from Cork, they think they're better then everyone those lads.

 

[FrenchFan]

Well Tolouse is not your average French Club are they? They've been the European standard setters for getting on towards two decades now, they are about as far from your average French Rugby club as Man utd are from a local pub team.

*Edit: Barcelona would have been a better example.

doesnt matter. Noves is more in touch with the game here, in all its traditional & modern aspects, than anyone else I know. Never heard him make that kind of comment.

 

[FrenchFan]

you make a lot of assumptions.

What O'Gara says is nothing to do with the quality of games but everything to do with the attitude of French players within the system - lack of willingness to train, to play to any system to observe discipline away from the pitch.

Lot's of coaches have spoken on this, and not just anglophile coaches either.

the rugby culture is different here did you notice as well. OGara might just be coming to terms with that reality and kissing goodbye to his preconceived ideas about french rugby.

 

[goodNumber10]

bringing this back up, Barkley on the BBC having now joined the scarletts saying it was occasionally unprofessional in France - he was at racing and then grenoble:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26353598

 

[FrenchFan]

bringing this back up, Barkley on the BBC having now joined the scarletts saying it was occasionally unprofessional in France - he was at racing and then grenoble:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26353598

who cares? another foreigner who can't hack it. Another one bites the dust..ah ah ah. What's considered professional in your country might be seen as unpro here as well. You can reverse the situation. As a player Barkley's never been up to the challenge he describes so he is right to go home, he never cut it in Top 14. Fill gap player. Its not for everyone to play here, I agree. We do things differently

 

[goodNumber10]

who cares? Another foreigner who can't hack it. Another one bites the dust..ah ah ah. What's considered professional in your country might be seen as unpro here as well. You can reverse the situation. As a player barkley's never been up to the challenge he describes so he is right to go home, he never cut it in top 14. Fill gap player. Its not for everyone to play here, i agree. We do things differently :d

 

[Big Ewis]

I don't know about "unprofessional" and Barkley doesn't use that term himself in the article there, but it's certainly a lot more competitive just because of all the big names around.
And I think it's got a lot more to do with the character of players; and often their culture; than to adapt as they should and just go on about their Rugby, i.e. the only reason why they're there as "pro athletes", right ?

A guy like Mike Philips who basically feels awful in Bayonne because it's way too different for him as an environment gets drunk all the time and gets fired and barely any time later he gets MOTM in some test match with Wales.
Jamie Roberts has been a non-factor for Racing way more often than not...there are many examples of players not being able to cope with the move to France.

Sexton is another, and he's even shared his lonely feelings his France and how home-sick he got. I think Celtic cultures/folks are so deeply rooted into their land, they're some of the most xenophobic/communitarian people in Europe. My brother has lived in Ireland for about a decade now, and tells me how there's a bit of that "shire community" mentality, where the guy from the next town is a stranger, sorta thing. Very, very wary of all things different and new.

Others have had no problem at all, because the state of mind they had initially was so different: Wilko, Matt Giteau...or because culturally they were much closer: Sergio Parisse.

So I put the blame on the players coming in, and their incapability to cope; rather than a flaw with the system itself.
You go on some remote planet, gotta adapt to the atmosphere so make sure you bring your oxygen helmet along.
If France didn't turn out to be as some guy thought in his mind it would be, that's irrelevant to the place he's going to. That's his issue.

 

[FrenchFan]

I don't know about "unprofessional" and Barkley doesn't use that term himself in the article there, but it's certainly a lot more competitive just because of all the big names around.
And I think it's got a lot more to do with the character of players; and often their culture; than to adapt as they should and just go on about their Rugby, i.e. the only reason why they're there as "pro athletes", right ?

A guy like Mike Philips who basically feels awful in Bayonne because it's way too different for him as an environment gets drunk all the time and gets fired and barely any time later he gets MOTM in some test match with Wales.
Jamie Roberts has been a non-factor for Racing way more often than not...there are many examples of players not being able to cope with the move to France.

Sexton is another, and he's even shared his lonely feelings his France and how home-sick he got. I think Celtic cultures/folks are so deeply rooted into their land, they're some of the most xenophobic/communitarian people in Europe. My brother has lived in Ireland for about a decade now, and tells me how there's a bit of that "shire community" mentality, where the guy from the next town is a stranger, sorta thing. Very, very wary of all things different and new.

Others have had no problem at all, because the state of mind they had initially was so different: Wilko, Matt Giteau...or because culturally they were much closer: Sergio Parisse.

So I put the blame on the players coming in, and their incapability to cope; rather than a flaw with the system itself.
You go on some remote planet, gotta adapt to the atmosphere so make sure you bring your oxygen helmet along.
If France didn't turn out to be as some guy thought in his mind it would be, that's irrelevant to the place he's going to. That's his issue.

yeah its hilarious to hear background noise about "ah they're unprofessional they're this and they're not that gnian gnian" .."french discipline on and off the field blabla" hey Mike Philipps got SACKED by Bayonne for DRINKING. Ah ah ah i love it and did you hear that Francois Holland was shagging an actress on the side, oh my oh my
sure all these anglo saxons POLLUTING our beloved domestic league are here to SHOW us how its done. Did you not know that's why we let them in. We're learning fast. They're going to show us how to play rugby AND how to live on and off the field. We need it like a bullet in the head :lol:

 

[TRF_Olyy]

To be fair this is hardly the first time someone has come out and said that the Top 14 isn't as professional as the other leagues in Europe.
That's not to say the clubs are inherently bad, the success of the sides and players shows that - it's just a comparison made by players who have played in both.

and you can hardly say failing to assimilate into the culture caused Philips degenerate behaviour - he was a grade A tw@t in Wales, it's hardly surprising he was one in France too.

 

[Big Ewis]

To be fair this is hardly the first time someone has come out and said that the Top 14 isn't as professional as the other leagues in Europe.
That's not to say the clubs are inherently bad, the success of the sides and players shows that - it's just a comparison made by players who have played in both.

and you can hardly say failing to assimilate into the culture caused Philips degenerate behaviour - he was a grade A tw@t in Wales, it's hardly surprising he was one in France too.

yes but Philips has always given it his all for Wales. Not....not so much for Bayonne. And it's not even form, like I said that e.g. having a nightmare season in the Top14 and then being MOTM the very next weekend you see him play. Difference, he was wearing red.

About pro/unpro:
the English have always been more disciplined than the French. It's what's allowed them to earn all the qualities/achievements they have that we haven't historically. There's an utter rigor about the English we just can't generate in France, we're much too mercurial, individualistic, and enjoy living far too much.
There's a saying: "in England, people live to work. In France, people work to live", hopefully that makes enough sense translated literally from the Fr.

Of course when guys from the British Isles come over, the change of climate is so sudden, all the differences appear, not gradually but instantly, like a shock. So they'll notice things are different, and I'm sure we're a bit less rigorous with training and the weight rooms in France. I mean just look at the England side and France side, musculature-wise.

But from there to saying it's "unpro" ? We've got names like Giteau, Wilko, Lobbe, Parisse, Jamie Roberts, Sexton, Hosea Gear, René Ranger, Nalaga just to give a sample of the sort of quality whole-globe presence we have, fourteen teams, some excellent coaches (also some foreigners) and a league that relegates teams to second division quicker than you can blink, and money/stakes abound. There doesn't seem, in theory, to be any room for "unprofessionalism" per se.
P.S.: and about that second division, the Pro D2, I've read or heard interviews of many guys saying the ProD2 is tougher than the Top14. Not to be taken literally, but surely that accounts for something, in a certain sense.

 

[FrenchFan]

To be fair this is hardly the first time someone has come out and said that the Top 14 isn't as professional as the other leagues in Europe.
That's not to say the clubs are inherently bad, the success of the sides and players shows that - it's just a comparison made by players who have played in both.

and you can hardly say failing to assimilate into the culture caused Philips degenerate behaviour - he was a grade A tw@t in Wales, it's hardly surprising he was one in France too.

Blame it on the Basque. They held him down and pour the drinks in. Philips was reported enjoying it. Then they sent him to the video session reeking of booze. How unpro.

 

[gaston le gaff]

He will be fine when he grows up!!!!!!! is he related to Gav the dick Henson they could be partners or brothers in idiocy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[goodNumber10]

Sexton is another, and he's even shared his lonely feelings his France and how home-sick he got. I think Celtic cultures/folks are so deeply rooted into their land, they're some of the most xenophobic/communitarian people in Europe. My brother has lived in Ireland for about a decade now, and tells me how there's a bit of that "shire community" mentality, where the guy from the next town is a stranger, sorta thing. Very, very wary of all things different and new.

I dont' really get this from Sexton... i understand being home sick, i've moved a lot. I lived in Paris for 5 years before moving out to Oise, my french is not good, and doesn't need to be for Paris, as like most large cities it's nothing like the rest of the country.

Paris can be difficult purely because of the size of the city, but most people speak english and certainly in shops or restaurants - maybe not your newspaper man or the old lady with the pull along trolly, but you certainly don't need to be fluent to put 95/98 or Gasoil in your car - you pay on card and need never speak a sentance of French.