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2014 6 Nations: France vs Ireland (Round 5)

well it's always like that. Ireland are huge favorites in this one. Just in case it isn't clear yet why, like you forgot the reasons or got confused along the way somehow:
France isn't a team, and Ireland are the best attack and defense of the tournament statistically and have only played high level, well executed, tactical and intense Rugby since (almost beating) New Zealand.

"Mas frustrated by scrums protocol":
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9209048,00.html

Has definitely suffered from the new rules...hope he has a good one here, he needs that confidence back. Although Healy will be a problem...
 
I heard the same argument 20 years ago about how our top clubs would topple the national side any day. Same argument in soccer as well. Nothing has changed. Not even the foreigners. Its the club culture.. I know you don't get that..

As an outside observer, the "club culture" in the top 14, seems to be, get the cheque book out, and buy overseas players, so that you can win the Top 14 ... this doesn't promote growth in French rugby, it lessens the opportunities for home grown talent, by restricting the number of available places for Frenchmen at top club level.

Rather than talking about releasing the international players back to the clubs, the clubs should be doing all that they can to bring through young French talent, and to maximize the number of available talent to the national selectors.

This article, for the Australian site, the roar, although a little old (and probably tells us what most of us already know) is here to support my opinion

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/03/23/no-doubt-frances-top-14-is-killing-french-rugby/

France probably has more money to throw into it's Rugby Systems, than any other tier one side, and could significantly strengthen their national side, by just lessening the number of overseas players in their clubs

... anyway, I know this isn't what the thread is suppose to be about, ... I know, Ireland are running hot right now, and I'd like them to win, but I think France will win at home by the narrowest of margins
 
Irish team if rumours are true are POM in at 6, Henderson to bench and Jordi Murphy out of 23. Everything else same as Italy.
 
As an outside observer, the "club culture" in the top 14, seems to be, get the cheque book out, and buy overseas players, so that you can win the Top 14 ... this doesn't promote growth in French rugby, it lessens the opportunities for home grown talent, by restricting the number of available places for Frenchmen at top club level.

Rather than talking about releasing the international players back to the clubs, the clubs should be doing all that they can to bring through young French talent, and to maximize the number of available talent to the national selectors.

This article, for the Australian site, the roar, although a little old (and probably tells us what most of us already know) is here to support my opinion

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/03/23/no-doubt-frances-top-14-is-killing-french-rugby/

France probably has more money to throw into it's Rugby Systems, than any other tier one side, and could significantly strengthen their national side, by just lessening the number of overseas players in their clubs

... anyway, I know this isn't what the thread is suppose to be about, ... I know, Ireland are running hot right now, and I'd like them to win, but I think France will win at home by the narrowest of margins

but the Top 14 is just another money story. It's yet another Lord of The Rings (or the Nibelungun myth to be more historical/authentic) story. Power. It corrupts the hearts of men. Simple as that, and I'm not even being poetic.
It started out as one thing, French clubs. It was also the perfect and necessary setup to develop and later pick young talents for the national team. But it's lost that calling. Because teh monneh. Top 14 clubs will just about buy anything or anyone just to have but a slight chance to make anything out of their season, domestic or H Cup. And they don't care that those 'someones' they buy are blue, black or wear the most enormous afro you've ever seen. It doesn't matter that they're not French. In fact, starting from now with the new agreement they'll be looking for more int'ls.
Of course there are still good players being developed 100% locally, home grown. Toulon even has some fine players they've developed, and given the amount of int'l foreigners there, these French guys do get some decent time, it should be said...

But a good example of French talent being suffocated is one that takes place exactly in that same and very Toulon. Alexis Palisson is done with them, he never ever gets any time and he's moving to Toulouse next year.

Anyways. Let's try to stay on topic: France's unpredictability, ergo invincibility and Ireland losing the ***le in Paris.
 
French are actually capable of winning this. which would seem er^$trùrh*ùgh*ù)'çfé" to anyone. But tis a possibility.
 
but the Top 14 is just another money story. It's yet another Lord of The Rings (or the Nibelungun myth to be more historical/authentic) story. Power. It corrupts the hearts of men. Simple as that, and I'm not even being poetic.
It started out as one thing, French clubs. It was also the perfect and necessary setup to develop and later pick young talents for the national team. But it's lost that calling. Because teh monneh. Top 14 clubs will just about buy anything or anyone just to have but a slight chance to make anything out of their season, domestic or H Cup. And they don't care that those 'someones' they buy are blue, black or wear the most enormous afro you've ever seen. It doesn't matter that they're not French. In fact, starting from now with the new agreement they'll be looking for more int'ls.
Of course there are still good players being developed 100% locally, home grown. Toulon even has some fine players they've developed, and given the amount of int'l foreigners there, these French guys do get some decent time, it should be said...

But a good example of French talent being suffocated is one that takes place exactly in that same and very Toulon. Alexis Palisson is done with them, he never ever gets any time and he's moving to Toulouse next year.

Anyways. Let's try to stay on topic: France's unpredictability, ergo invincibility and Ireland losing the ***le in Paris.

A slightly over the top response my friend.......lets not forget that there are quotas in place which are reducing the number of foreigners now in place! Gaston can again roll out the precise numbers and qualification requirements as cannot be bothered to look back to find them!!!

I would rather the argument that the French International system of bringing on French talent is flawed by years of inability of the FFR to deal properly with the LNR/clubs which is somewhat typical, in my amateurish view, of Parisiens and their dealings with non Parisiens respectively...............u mien i ave two deal withtese cochons!!!
 
A slightly over the top response my friend.......lets not forget that there are quotas in place which are reducing the number of foreigners now in place! Gaston can again roll out the precise numbers and qualification requirements as cannot be bothered to look back to find them!!!

I would rather the argument that the French International system of bringing on French talent is flawed by years of inability of the FFR to deal properly with the LNR/clubs which is somewhat typical, in my amateurish view, of Parisiens and their dealings with non Parisiens respectively...............u mien i ave two deal withtese cochons!!!

... Just finished reading another thread started by Cookie in January (when I was less active) ... it seems that this is another topic that has been done to death, and that I'm 2 months late for :) ... having read all of the said thread, I now have a better understanding of how other think about the strengths and weaknesses of the Top 14, and don't really want to spark another discussion on the topic ... I wish I'd read that thread before posting :)
 
As an outside observer, the "club culture" in the top 14, seems to be, get the cheque book out, and buy overseas players, so that you can win the Top 14 ... this doesn't promote growth in French rugby, it lessens the opportunities for home grown talent, by restricting the number of available places for Frenchmen at top club level.

Rather than talking about releasing the international players back to the clubs, the clubs should be doing all that they can to bring through young French talent, and to maximize the number of available talent to the national selectors.

This article, for the Australian site, the roar, although a little old (and probably tells us what most of us already know) is here to support my opinion

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/03/23/no-doubt-frances-top-14-is-killing-french-rugby/

France probably has more money to throw into it's Rugby Systems, than any other tier one side, and could significantly strengthen their national side, by just lessening the number of overseas players in their clubs

... anyway, I know this isn't what the thread is suppose to be about, ... I know, Ireland are running hot right now, and I'd like them to win, but I think France will win at home by the narrowest of margins

ah here we go again...hadn't heard that one in a while...its back on the waves weheee...another broken record from Down Under. The article is outdated and wrong all the way. Never mind the fact that Pierre Poitrenaud Beauxis Rougerie Poux are long out of the french squad !! Poux has retired from Intl rugby hellooo, the others might just as well
Fritz and Debatty are not too old to play in the next RWC. If anything, Fritz needs to return when he is fit again. He is a warrior. Debatty is barely used in the national side when he should be a regular starter. They will tell you that he is wasted on the national side. I agree. Hey but PSA hasn't figgured it out yet! did you notice as well

There's many outstanding youngsters in their early 20s playing first team rugby who should be in the french squad. I made the case for Tolofua & Gallan of Toulouse among many others. Throw into the mix foreign imports eligible or soon to be (Kokott at Castres) on top of the existing squad and are we struggling to get 30 top internationals?! AH AH AH

I have to hand it to PSA for his ability to sell his bull**** to the media, foreign media in particular. What a salesman, and there's no shortage of buyers out there..
 
A slightly over the top response my friend.......lets not forget that there are quotas in place which are reducing the number of foreigners now in place! Gaston can again roll out the precise numbers and qualification requirements as cannot be bothered to look back to find them!!!

I would rather the argument that the French International system of bringing on French talent is flawed by years of inability of the FFR to deal properly with the LNR/clubs which is somewhat typical, in my amateurish view, of Parisiens and their dealings with non Parisiens respectively...............u mien i ave two deal withtese cochons!!!

of course there's a quota lol, thank God. Or we'd have all foreigners, and possibly the entire All-Blacks and Boks and Samoan and Georgian squads circulating in the Top 14. And as incompetent as the FFR might be, the Top 14 may not lack in competence but they're the ones causing a lot of the issue. They're the ones not interested in collaborating, and they're the ones not giving a crap about agreements when they're made.

ah here we go again...hadn't heard that one in a while...its back on the waves weheee...another broken record from Down Under. The article is outdated and wrong all the way. Never mind the fact that Pierre Poitrenaud Beauxis Rougerie Poux are long out of the french squad !! Poux has retired from Intl rugby hellooo, the others might just as well
Fritz and Debatty are not too old to play in the next RWC. If anything, Fritz needs to return when he is fit again. He is a warrior. Debatty is barely used in the national side when he should be a regular starter. They will tell you that he is wasted on the national side. I agree. Hey but PSA hasn't figgured it out yet! did you notice as well

There's many outstanding youngsters in their early 20s playing first team rugby who should be in the french squad. I made the case for Tolofua & Gallan of Toulouse among many others. Throw into the mix foreign imports eligible or soon to be (Kokott at Castres) on top of the existing squad and are we struggling to get 30 top internationals?! AH AH AH

I have to hand it to PSA for his ability to sell his bull**** to the media, foreign media in particular. What a salesman, and there's no shortage of buyers out there..

Haven't read the article, but they say Fritz is too old for the RWC ?? :D he's our best center with Fofana, 30 yo or not. And Debatty a starter ???? That's flat out blasphemous FrenchFan.


*About PSA and Schmidt*:
there's an interesting ***le on a French website that goes "Schmidt only needed 6 months".
Hadn't thought about it that way...it's true. As French fans we've been sucked into this situation and have been like fish in a bowl for too long. I guess it's the natural survival instinct, we won't let go. We can't just let go, so we patiently resume the ordeal of being supporters of the team.

But all it takes is about 6 months. Heck, Lancaster's effect was almost immediate. They were a young squad and beat everybody but GS winning Wales that first year. They managed a draw in South Africa.

Schmidt turned this Ireland team around and tapped into that potential we honestly didn't know they had. We knew Ireland had a lot of talent, but nobody expected this: giving the AB's multiple heart-attacks and bullying Wales so badly people instantly started to question Gatland ball altogether !...they just put a score on Italy that's only reminiscent of the earlier years of the 6N tournament.

A coach doesn't need "a while" to get his team in shape. Directives, authority, order...all that can be conveyed on the spot.

Philippe Saint-André is just simply a disaster. A disaster.
 
What France desperately need...


Is a New Zealander as head coach ;).
 
ah here we go again...hadn't heard that one in a while...its back on the waves weheee...another broken record from Down Under. The article is outdated and wrong all the way. Never mind the fact that Pierre Poitrenaud Beauxis Rougerie Poux are long out of the french squad !! Poux has retired from Intl rugby hellooo, the others might just as well
Fritz and Debatty are not too old to play in the next RWC. If anything, Fritz needs to return when he is fit again. He is a warrior. Debatty is barely used in the national side when he should be a regular starter. They will tell you that he is wasted on the national side. I agree. Hey but PSA hasn't figgured it out yet! did you notice as well

There's many outstanding youngsters in their early 20s playing first team rugby who should be in the french squad. I made the case for Tolofua & Gallan of Toulouse among many others. Throw into the mix foreign imports eligible or soon to be (Kokott at Castres) on top of the existing squad and are we struggling to get 30 top internationals?! AH AH AH

I have to hand it to PSA for his ability to sell his bull**** to the media, foreign media in particular. What a salesman, and there's no shortage of buyers out there..

Yes, and like I said in my post immediately afterwards ...

... Just finished reading another thread started by Cookie in January (when I was less active) ... it seems that this is another topic that has been done to death, and that I'm 2 months late for :) ... having read all of the said thread, I now have a better understanding of how other think about the strengths and weaknesses of the Top 14, and don't really want to spark another discussion on the topic ... I wish I'd read that thread before posting :)

... well you obviously missed this ... understandable as it's immediately before your post ;) ... like I said, I didn't want to spark another conversation going over the same old stuff
 
France: 15 Brice Dulin, 14 Yoann Huget, 13 Mathieu Bastareaud, 12 Gaël Fickou , 11 Maxime Médard, 10 Remi Tálès, 9 Maxime Machenaud, 8 Damien Chouly, 7 Alexandre Lapandry, 6 Louis Picamoles, 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Pascal Papé, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Thomas Domingo
Replacements:16 Guilhem Guirado, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Rabah Slimani, 19 Alexandre Flanquart, 20 Sébastien Vahaamahina, 21 Wenceslas Lauret, 22 Jean-Marc Doussain, 23 Maxime Mermoz

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9210748,00.html


 
France: 15 Brice Dulin, 14 Yoann Huget, 13 Mathieu Bastareaud, 12 Gaël Fickou , 11 Maxime Médard, 10 Remi Tálès, 9 Maxime Machenaud, 8 Damien Chouly, 7 Alexandre Lapandry, 6 Louis Picamoles, 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Pascal Papé, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Thomas Domingo
Replacements:16 Guilhem Guirado, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Rabah Slimani, 19 Alexandre Flanquart, 20 Sébastien Vahaamahina, 21 Wenceslas Lauret, 22 Jean-Marc Doussain, 23 Maxime Mermoz

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9210748,00.html



another France B side.
 

6 to 11 at the very least should not be playing in those positions and would only keep Picamoles anyway!

Machenaud maybe as second but probably third choice......and I would have Fritz and Fofana other than for their injuries........
 
France: 15 Brice Dulin, 14 Yoann Huget, 13 Mathieu Bastareaud, 12 Gaël Fickou , 11 Maxime Médard, 10 Remi Tálès, 9 Maxime Machenaud, 8 Damien Chouly, 7 Alexandre Lapandry, 6 Louis Picamoles, 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Pascal Papé, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Thomas Domingo.
Replacements: 16 Guilhem Guirado, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Rabah Slimani, 19 Alexandre Flanquart, 20 Sébastien Vahaamahina, 21 Wenceslas Lauret, 22 Jean-Marc Doussain, 23 Maxime Mermoz.

Doussain is on the bench to replace Tales then?! And Mermoz to change places with Fickou who will swap with Basteraux when he comes off?!!

I take it PSA it trying his absolute best to confuse the Irish coaching team! Well I'm f***king confused so it must be working!
 

France: 15 Brice Dulin, 14 Yoann Huget, 13 Mathieu Bastareaud, 12 Gaël Fickou , 11 Maxime Médard, 10 Remi Tálès, 9 Maxime Machenaud, 8 Damien Chouly, 7 Alexandre Lapandry, 6 Louis Picamoles, 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Pascal Papé, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Thomas Domingo
Replacements:16 Guilhem Guirado, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Rabah Slimani, 19 Alexandre Flanquart, 20 Sébastien Vahaamahina, 21 Wenceslas Lauret, 22 Jean-Marc Doussain, 23 Maxime Mermoz

Kayser is out at hooker. Picamoles is playing 6; 7 and 8 are 3rd/4th choices - 9 and 10 aren't 1st choice. Médard is a filler at wing, he shines at FB, we've got at least 4 maybe 5 guys ahead of him. Our centers are fillers.
On the bench, hooker Guirado is a filler, Flanquart shouldn't be there and Mermoz is a filler at 23.

Calling this a B team is a fair assessment and couldn't be categorically rejected. Yet somehow there's still quality per se on paper there.

A few things about all that:

- the scrum:
it seems since Kayser left after the England game our scrum has lost stability. He gave us weight at the middle of the front row we don't get with Szar (although he's better all-around). We've been erratic there.
With Walsh refereeing this one, we better adapt to SH interpretation unlike what we did in Murrayfield, stubborn to get penalties when we should have played ball.

Mas had this to say since the rule change (impact):
"It's been 15 years I've been doing the same thing, and now they're changing it all", complains Nicolas Mas (33 yo, 70 caps). "It's hard to take position. It's like a kid you change his way of doing things. There's an adaptation to be made to the new rules, the refereeing, continues the Montpelliérain. But it's our job."

Or Thomas Domingo:
"The ref has asked us to change our grips/support. It's destabilizing, confusing."

- the half-back pairing:
I think this is yet another new one, could it be, the twelveth since PSA ? Machenaud-Talès. It really should've been Parra-FTD, nothing to lose, but no. Talès handed a difficult task almost straight out of the blue, and our *penalty kicker* will be Machenaud !...

- center combination: it's Fickou's first start for a real big test in Bleus. He's still very young, and I find it gutsy the staff would try him out. But it's not like France plays with any chemistry, so put anyone 2 centers there, they'll play on an island of their own the whole match anyways.

- third row:
* Lapandry (1m95, 101kg) did look good in Scotland, and despite lacking a bit in weight for a guy his height and for a flanker, he's actually played well. 12 tackles, 0 miss. 0 turnover. Won a ball himself at the bdown. Ran a bit. Won 2 lineouts.
* Chouly is alright but he won't make a World XV any time soon. Also a perfect tackler (9/0) in MF but he caused 2 TO.
* Apparently, PSA has a "plan" for the Picamoles-Chouly combination. He said there will be "alerternance" between the two, but couldn't say more about that "plan". Mmmmyeah...

I thought it was very important to include mass and power at the breakdown against a beastial Irish side that will be hungrier than ever on Saturday. Le Roux was back from injury and would've been big....why the fk ??

Overall some pretty bad choices, even given the very limited options available. Especially at 6-7-8-9-10.
 
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