2014 6 Nations: England vs Wales (Round 4)

[Peat]

Billy is a million times more consistent than Morgan, though.

Not in an England shirt he isn't. Morgan has never been less than good for England - and as long as that continues, I couldn't care less about club form.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I remember some crap performances from Morgan, though I do agree for the most part he is very good internationally.

 

[B10]

I would get Ewers on the bench.

Wood and Robshaw are fitness monsters and generally don't need to come off (I say after Wood had cramp on Sat) If they do, move Launchbury to flanker and get Attwood on.

I like Morgan but I'm not convinced he can perform with the intensity we need from our number 8 for 80 mins.

Ewers is a work in progress but he is brutal and a great physical option against Wales for 20 mins or so. Ewers over Dickinson because he's much younger and we generally not going to need to use our 3rd choice number 8 that often. Might aswell let Ewers get the oppertunity now as I reckon after 2015 WC he will push Morgan hard for 2nd choice number 8 if he carries on developing as he is.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Dickinson ain't exactly ancient - could easily make the 2019 RWC (would be about 33 by then? Considering Easter is 35 and still going strong...) - think Dickinson is in the better form, currently, and played better for the Saxons too.

That said Ewers is a specimen, and I'd have no issues with him being around the England squad.

 

[Patchey]

I can see Ewers and/or Dickinson going to NZ and playing int he first test and midweek game(s) but there no chance IMO of them making the squad in two weeks time. Maybe a call up to get them involved in the system, Lancaster loves that and it seems to be working, but I think previous selection shows there is usually a clear hierarchy in the squad for any giver series/tournament. Kvesic is next and I'd put a tenner he'll be on the bench for Wales if fit.

Depending on what we need from the Italy game a new 8 might get blooded. If its a case of needing five tries to win the championship on points difference then maybe not, but if things aren't so close or, heaven forbid we have no chance of winning, a little experimentation might occur.

Is Tom Johnson still in the squad?

 

[B10]

hmmm yes but Lancaster gave Easter the boot when he was 32.

I rate Dickinson though and wouldn't have a problem with him on the bench. Much rather that than having to move Wood to 8.

I watch Exeter a bit though so a bit biased and Ewers has huge potential.

 

[B10]

I can see Ewers and/or Dickinson going to NZ and playing int he first test and midweek game(s) but there no chance IMO of them making the squad in two weeks time. Maybe a call up to get them involved in the system, Lancaster loves that and it seems to be working, but I think previous selection shows there is usually a clear hierarchy in the squad for any giver series/tournament. Kvesic is next and I'd put a tenner he'll be on the bench for Wales if fit.

Depending on what we need from the Italy game a new 8 might get blooded. If its a case of needing five tries to win the championship on points difference then maybe not, but if things aren't so close or, heaven forbid we have no chance of winning, a little experimentation might occur.

Is Tom Johnson still in the squad?

You are more than likely right but I think it will be a mistake. Our game plan and personal lends to having a proper 8 on the bench.

Johnson is in the squad and Lancaster already quoted naming him and Kvesic as options to come in for Billy.

I actually think Johnson will be the selection for the bench as he can come on at 8 without having to move Wood. I actually don't mind Johnson, he gets some unfair stick on here IMO.

 

[Angolvagyok]

You are more than likely right but I think it will be a mistake. Our game plan and personal lends to having a proper 8 on the bench.

Johnson is in the squad and Lancaster already quoted naming him and Kvesic as options to come in for Billy.

I actually think Johnson will be the selection for the bench as he can come on at 8 without having to move Wood. I actually don't mind Johnson, he gets some unfair stick on here IMO.

I've just slated Johnson a little on the 6 nations thread, but it's nothing against him as a player, it's memories of last year when we just didn't look great for the tournament as a whole. Amazing to think there's only 6 guys from the last game starting this one.

You're absolutely right when you say we need a proper 8 on the bench, we're really lucky to have Morgan and Billy around now.

I'm leaning towards Kvesic. With Lancaster giving Wade, Yarde, Burrell, Nowell and May game time it suggest he's getting a little braver with selection and blooding guys with 2015 in mind. Think he knows enough about Johnson and lies him as a squad player, fair enough.

Can't wait to see what the lineup is in NZ, but that's for another thread.

 

[B10]

Johnson hasn't actually played in the 6 nations before. He played 3 tests away in South Africa including his debut and handled himself quite well against the brutal Boks, and also a couple of 2012 Autumn internationals.

 

[Tmartin995]

I reckon that Johnson may get the nod on the bench as he's a better carrier than Kvesic (it seems to be between those two following Lancaster's words). Johnson carries really well particularly in the wide channels for Chiefs and is a work horse around the pitch.

That being said I may be a little bit biased and haven't really seen Kvesic aside from the Argentina tour (where his defence was terrific) and a few games for Gloucester where he's been on the back foot.

 

[Angolvagyok]

Johnson hasn't actually played in the 6 nations before. He played 3 tests away in South Africa including his debut and handled himself quite well against the brutal Boks, and also a couple of 2012 Autumn internationals.

Yeah, it was Haskell/Croft last year, I thought Johnson had played a bit, my bad, but my point still stands, the balance that they've got at 6-7-8 looks too good to mess about with. It's just what we do when the subs start coming on that's interesting.

 

[Thingimubob]

Lack of Welsh supporters here... possibly waiting a week to start the banter Wales vs France thread was pretty quiet too from our Welsh contingent

 

[Peat]

hmmm yes but Lancaster gave Easter the boot when he was 32.

That was due to Easter's personality and professionalism, not his age and talent. Or at least so I believe. We could still do worse than him based on what he does on the pitch.

 

[McTallshort]

Easter will never play for England while Lancaster is running things. He as Saxons coach was very close to some of the younger players in the WC squad and whatever was said when they returned home caused Lancaster to drop arguably the premierships form 8 without a second thought.

 

[Patchey]

Well despite a little romantic streak wanting me to see him return to demolish the Welsh back row with his stern gaze I'm more than happy for his to stay at Quins instead.

Regarding Kvesic, if 36 and Morgan can be selected for the match day 23 then I don't think the argument that Kev hasn't been playing well enough applies. Morgan has been largely anonymous for most if the season and 36 hasn't been at his best. May is really the only one of Glaws' contingent who has been on top form this season.

 

[Crapspray]

Wasn't it the "There's thirty grand down the drain." comment after England lost the Grand Slam in 2011 that came out during the inquisition following the world cup?

I don't think number 8 is a problem now anyway. Two very good, young players in the EPS with Dickinson and Ewers below. Easter is up there, but I'd rather Vunipola and Morgan get the place. They've got the potential to be (and are) far better players.

When it was Dowson in 2012 then maybe, but not now.

 

[Patchey]

Wasn't it the "There's thirty grand down the drain." comment after England lost the Grand Slam in 2011 that came out during the inquisition following the world cup?

I don't think number 8 is a problem now anyway. Two very good, young players in the EPS with Dickinson and Ewers below. Easter is up there, but I'd rather Vunipola and Morgan get the place. They've got the potential to be (and are) far better players.

When it was Dowson in 2012 then maybe, but not now.

I think it was after the RWC Quarter-Final but yeah, that was supposedly it.

I've always wondered what Cueto did to get dropped. He is basically Lancasters ideal winger.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

and whatever was said when they returned home caused Lancaster to drop arguably the premierships form 8 without a second thought.

To be fair Easter's form, at least for England, at the time was poor.
Massively upped it since then, though.

I've always wondered what Cueto did to get dropped. He is basically Lancasters ideal winger.

I can understand it, due to his age/the amount of young backs we had to choose from - however (in my Sale tinted glasses) he would've been ideal to keep around for at least a season or so more. Believe he got replaced by Strettle? Cuets can play 11, 13 and 15 to a very high standard and is a model professional. Would've been good to have him around just as a mentor to younger lads. That said he was struggling with a knee injury for the majority of that season, so his form had dropped off a fair bit (compare his try scoring record last season to this).

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I think we're very lucky to have such depth at 8. I can't emphasise enough how much of a fan I am of Morgan. Thing is Morgan is actually as good a carrier as Vunipola because he has some wheels. The other thing is I think because weight wise he's not as monsterously built as Vunipola, teams don't prepare for him in the way they do Vunipola. You often see as many as 3 men trying to tackle the latter. Ben Morgan doesn't seem to merit special attention in the eyes of opposition defences, where perhaps he should dn the other hand you could say that Vunipola makes more room for others by being seen as this special monstrosity.
I am more than happy for Morgan to get the start against the Wales, whilst simultaneously gutted that Billy is out.

Regarding Kvesic. It's hard to respond when presented with such compelling stats. The obvious thing to say is that stats aren't the whole story etc etc..
@ Rats : Can I extrapolate from that that you would prefer Kvesic to be playing instead of Robshaw? The headline stats appeal more to the styles of some players than of others.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Nope. Robshaw has improved massively over the Autumn and now the 6N - he's doing as much work as before, but he's managed to improve the quality of his contributions.
He's looking in much better condition too - slightly sharper.

I'd look to give him the opportunity to oust Wood.