[2013 TRC] New Zealand vs South Africa in Auckland (14/09/2013)

[Tony Manx]

I'm not saying it's legal or illegal, Victor Matfield and Pierre Spies was never penalised doing that, so why is Bismarck's cpntinuous use of this NOW all of a sudden deemed as wrong??

In the old days, you were not sent off for a tip tackle or for punchinig but it is dangerous play...... What may have happened in the past is no excuse for what happens now or in the future...

The ball carrier who uses his forearm dangerously is a real threat to the safety of the tackler and one can only hope that this is the start of consistent penalising....I have no problem where the carrier holds his free arm against his body into which the tackler hits but where he sticks his elbow out, as happened here, there is always the danger of his elbow, one of the most dangerous parts of the body, will make contact with the head, throat etc of the tackler in a potentially serious way.

 

[Larksea]

shame about the cards, Bismarck's first yellow was obviously questionable/bull**** but when you come back on after a yellow you have to be right on your toes and make damn sure you don't pick up another and lifting his elbow towards another players head/throat Bismarck can only blame himself for that and the red card.

Best team still won, ABs won most areas of the game other than the breakdown at times where the boks were strong a won a number of turnovers.

And in the end the AB's won without McCaw, Carter or Dagg, Barrett was more than impressive. Cane was excellent, but Brodie Retallick was simply awesome, it would be hard to recall a lock having a more impressive individual performance in such a big game. Read had another big game and Messam was impressive in his first game since he was man of the match in the Super final.
Even Todd had a good showing as regular blood replacement for Cane.
While Conrad and Nonu both made bad mistakes at critical times they also both made critical plays to create trys. Play didn't really go Ben Smiths way but he still made some critical/big plays in the game.

kinda a rare game where all the ABs were very good in general. just a few individual errors at times, knock ons. But generally they won the gain line, the all important contact, the set plays and the game.

Going into the last couple of games bonus points are going to become critical for the championship. And it seems the ABs will have to do it without Carter or McCaw.

 

[smartcooky]

The contest at Eden Park 14 September 2013
SA 14 players VS NZ 16 players

New Zealand: 15 Israel Dagg, 14 Ben Smith, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Dan Carter, 9 Aaron Smith, 8 Kieran Read (c), 7 Sam Cane, 6 Liam Messam, 5 Sam Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Tony Woodcock, Romain Poite(ref)
Bench: 16 Keven Mealamu, 17 Wyatt Crockett, 18 Charlie Faumuina, 19 Steven Luatua, 20 Matt Todd, 21 Tawera Kerr Barlow, 22 Beauden Barrett, 23 Charles Piutau

South Africa: 15 Zane Kirchner, 14 Willie le Roux, 13 JJ Engelbrecht, 12 Jean de Villiers (captain), 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Morné Steyn, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Willem Alberts, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Flip van der Merwe, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 1 Tendai Mtawarira.
Bench: 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Gurthrö Steenkamp, 18 Coenie Oosthuizen, 19 Juandré Kruger, 20 Siya Kolisi, 21 Jano Vermaak, 22 Pat Lambie, 23 Jan Serfontein.

All you've done is join to be a troll.

Either contribute to the discussion with something sensible, or fack off!!

 

[Agphobia]

All you've done is join to be a troll.

Either contribute to the discussion with something sensible, or fack off!!

Sure, but not at your bequest. Happen to differ in opinion mate. Is this forum just a cosy clique???
Here's some South African media feedback

http://www.keo.co.za/2013/09/14/all-blacks-beat-springboks/

http://www.sarugby.net/article.aspx?id=2108144

Credit to Jean de Villiers for his modesty and keeping his feet firmly planted on the ground. Looking forward to a cracking game at Ellis Park.
(just seriously ****** off today, sorry for upsetting some of the forum members)

 

[Tony Manx]

Sure, but not at your bequest. Happen to differ in opinion mate. Is this forum just a cosy clique???
Here's some South African media feedback

http://www.keo.co.za/2013/09/14/all-blacks-beat-springboks/

http://www.sarugby.net/article.aspx?id=2108144

Credit to Jean de Villiers for his modesty and keeping his feet firmly planted on the ground. Looking forward to a cracking game at Ellis Park.
(just seriously ****** off today, sorry for upsetting some of the forum members)

Who buys their paper..............not the Kiwis! I have never known a press that does not favour their own national team because hat is what their readership want to hear!

You have only upset forum members, me anyway, by being so ridiculously one eyed......understandable when you feel that your team has suffered an injustice but you were somewhat over the top.

Look forward to many a discussion but on a more reasonable basis please !

 

[Agphobia]

Who buys their paper..............not the Kiwis! I have never known a press that does not favour their own national team because hat is what their readership want to hear!

You have only upset forum members, me anyway, by being so ridiculously one eyed......understandable when you feel that your team has suffered an injustice but you were somewhat over the top.
Look forward to many a discussion but on a more reasonable basis please !

Peace mate. Agree I was over the top. Hoping for a good return game
ciao

 

[Tony Manx]

Peace mate. Agree I was over the top. Hoping for a good return game
ciao

Abientot!

 

[SomeOke]

First yellow on BDP was terrible, second was legit, game was ruined to a degree but we certainly can't say NZ would have lost without it.
In the end the Boks still had a ton of defensive lapses and just could not field the high balls, either from open play or from the restart, Ben Smith was on top of Kirchner every single time and just made him his *****, we were in general put to bed by clever kicks for the most part.
Pienaar had a shocker, some of his passes were just ridiculous as well as his kicking being very inconsistent and a few defensive lapses.

Scrums are hard to comment on as the SA pack only had 8 men for 30 minutes of the game. Line-outs I feel we may have had the ascendancy but the All Blacks out smarted us by diversifying their options and nullifying any advantage we may have had, only conclusive edge we had was in the breakdown.
In the end NZ still the best and probably would have come out on top anyway. In the end the RC is far from over, assuming both SA and NZ get bonus points in the next game it's going to come down to Ellis park and our points difference is 27 ahead at the moment, so as long as we win we're in with a good shot.

Hard to not feel a little bit hard done by, but this may have been the result either way, we have to just put this behind us and look to the future which looks hopeful.

edit: Oh and I didn't think the ref was that bad apart from the one dubious call. I can't remember standing up in outrage more than that once.

 

[Colombia]

Best team still won

When it was 15 v 15, the score was 10-all. This game was inconclusive as to anything except that Poite did not referee well.

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

I felt the game lost its excitement when BDP got red carded, heck even for getting yellow carded the first time, that was total bull****, it was a clean solid tackle. Seems as though you cant be aggressive in rugby anymore. Even SA's game last week against Aus when Hooper put a great tackle on Habana and got carded (what is this game coming to?haha). This win by the ABs is not as satisfying, not in my eyes anyways, as we clearly had the advantage for pretty much the whole of the second half. Anyways enough of that, will be looking forward to the match in ellis park, that game shall decide who the number one team in the world is.

 

[smartcooky]

When it was 15 v 15, the score was 10-all. This game was inconclusive as to anything except that Poite did not referee well.

I know what you're trying to say, but the score was never 10 all?

7-0
7-3
14-3
...

 

[Kapa O Pango]

[h=1]Dan Carter Shoulder Injury and du Plessis controversial sin bin[/h]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Bismarck so unlucky tonight. He was an machine at the breakdown. Boks 'might' of won if Bismarck didn't get the yellow in the first place and red with the issue dealing with Messam neck. Bismarck did an solid tackle, textbook awesome tackle. Shocking decision, stupid call by the ref, awesome tackle by Bismarck.[/FONT]

 

[Colombia]

I know what you're trying to say, but the score was never 10 all?

Take away the 7 pointer NZ scored when SA were down to 14.

At half-time the score was 17-10, i.e. the teams were even without the try scored when South Africa were down to 14.

I have no idea who would have won the game it was an inconclusive test match.

 

[dasNdanger]

He put in a good tackle near the end, and the ref mentioned it saying: "He doesn't usually like to tackle".

Thing about Morne is, when the whole team is playing well, he'll be playing well. But if the competition is even a little bit intense, he struggles. He shines and looks good when we absolutely decimate the other team, yes. But in a match like tonight he looks average. But like I said, for now he is our best option. Goosen is injured and very inexperienced and I doubt that Meyer will ever play Lambie (who is also average).

Yes, that was the comment. I was just wondering if not liking to tackle makes him a less valuable player in the long run. Of course, as you point out, they really don't have many options right now. Thanks for the insight!

I'm a die hard book fan. I have a very full Kindle and 2 whole shelves of novels

Me, too! But I prefer paper. Right now I'm resting my brain by reading the Hamish Macbeth series - nice, easy cozies - while awaiting the next Special Agent Aloysius Pendergast thriller (Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child) - definitely NOT a cozy.

The bipolar is strong in this one...

:lol:


In defense (sorry, I just can't spell it 'defence' because that's what surrounds my yard ), of the noob, passion for the game and for one's team tends to get one fired up and overbearing. I never think of posters like that as 'trolls', just maybe a bit over-reactive. That fella who posted about how terrible rugby is compared to football? Now THAT was a troll.


das

 

[SelimNiai]

Take away the 7 pointer NZ scored when SA were down to 14.

At half-time the score was 17-10, i.e. the teams were even without the try scored when South Africa were down to 14.

I have no idea who would have won the game it was an inconclusive test match.

You can't call it inconclusive.

Yes, the dodgy yellow leading to the red card arguably decided the result but the game still needed to be won by either team. Bad calls happen nearly all the time. If you do down that route then every other game would be inconclusive.

I can think of a World Cup Final, World Cup Semi, at least 2 World Cup Quarters, and a couple of 6 Nations games that have been decided by bad/questionable officiating.

 

[William18]

Take away the 7 pointer NZ scored when SA were down to 14.

At half-time the score was 17-10, i.e. the teams were even without the try scored when South Africa were down to 14.

I have no idea who would have won the game it was an inconclusive test match.

You can't just do that though. The second Du Plessis yellow was legit and I think we scored in the 10 minutes after that. Therefore we deserved our try. I agree that the test match wasn't conclusive in a sense but I was confident that we would have come out on top had it continued 15 vs 15.

 

[dasNdanger]

You can't call it inconclusive.

Yes, the dodgy yellow leading to the red card arguably decided the result but the game still needed to be won by either team. Bad calls happen nearly all the time. If you do down that route then every other game would be inconclusive.

I can think of a World Cup Final, World Cup Semi, at least 2 World Cup Quarters, and a couple of 6 Nations games that have been decided by bad/questionable officiating.

That 16th man is the most important player on the pitch - loved or hated, depending on which team he's playing for.


das

 

[Colombia]

You can't just do that though. The second Du Plessis yellow was legit and I think we scored in the 10 minutes after that. Therefore we deserved our try.

It was still a try scored against 14 men. If you read my initial post, I said it was inconclusive on the basis that the teams were even when it was 15 v 15.

I agree that the test match wasn't conclusive in a sense but I was confident that we would have come out on top had it continued 15 vs 15.

Well then we're on the same page. Hey, there's a rematch at the end of the tournament, all will be revealed then.

 

[dasNdanger]

It was still a try scored against 14 men. If you read my initial post, I said it was inconclusive on the basis that the teams were even when it was 15 v 15.

I think what W18 meant is that regardless of that bad first yellow, the second yellow was legit and so that penalty can't be debated (though the red card can). The second yellow would have happened no matter what, and since the try was scored within the first 10 minutes (we think), then that try can't be debated, either. Now, if it had been scored beyond those first 10, then we could say, 'if du Plessis hadn't been unjustly red-carded, then this try probably wouldn't have happened'.


das

 

[TRF_heineken]

You can't call it inconclusive.

Yes, the dodgy yellow leading to the red card arguably decided the result but the game still needed to be won by either team. Bad calls happen nearly all the time. If you do down that route then every other game would be inconclusive.

I can think of a World Cup Final, World Cup Semi, at least 2 World Cup Quarters, and a couple of 6 Nations games that have been decided by bad/questionable officiating.

True!

But as a Saffa I'm getting rather fed-up at being at wrong end of these bad calls. And usually in very important games!

As a bok supporter I measure the boks only against the All Blacks, and no other team. And this type of result saddens me greatly. As I still don't know where we are against them.

Whatever happens at Ellis Park won't have much bearing to me in all honesty. If we win then great, but then everyone will say altitude played a role in the outcome of the Rugby Championship.

And based on what I read on facebook today, I fear the crowd might have an influence on the outcome too.

So basically I will have to wait another whole year to see how great the Boks are.

As for this match, I thought that up to the first yellow, we were dominating in every regard of the match apart from the scoreline. When BDP went off we lost 2 consecutive lineouts because Ruan Pienaar had to throw in. Then the next scrum we got awarded a penalty against us as it was an 8 on 7 scrum and that is always going to be the case as we had to sacrifice another heavy body on the shape of Willem Alberts, who on his own is 120kg's.