[2013 TRC] Australia vs. South Africa in Brisbane (07/09/2013)

[Jaguares]

Former All Black strongman Richard Loe says the Boks' Eben Etzebeth had it coming when bitten by an Argentinean recently:

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/NZ-hard-man-blasts-Etzebeth-20130902

Cheers

 

[ABs2011]

Though I like what our Kiwi posters are saying I think they ignore one crucial point and that is we don't travel as well as them and Aus is a much more 'foreign' place to us than them. Still think (or is it hope?) we SHOULD win..

Yes, if I were SA I would be worried about this game for that reason. From someone watching from the sidelines though I would have thought SA should win, mainly because OZ look so poor of late. But I agree, anytime SA has to travel and play in OZ (not to mention all the extra travel they have had to do) it will be a tough game for them.

The thing is though OZ were pretty rubbish against us, and pretty rubbish against the Lions too, who, I don't think were very good themselves. On top of that, my Kiwi perspective is that (other than a fired up French side) SA are the biggest dangers in world rugby. Their forwards are always formidable and if they can win that battle I think they will beat the ozzies reasonably comfortably. IMO if SA could find a quality attacking 10 they would be 2 x the team though

 

[Draggs]

Folau, Cummins, Ashley Cooper, Leali'ifano, O'Connor, Cooper, Genia; Slipper, Moore, Kepu, Simmons, Horwill, Fardy, Hooper, Mowen; Faingaa, Sio, Alexander, Doulglas, Schatz, White, Toomua, Mogg.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

I hope you're all wrong, just like last year. too quick to write off the Wallabies after losing to the All Blacks.

Link has made several changes including Folau to FB, cooper in and cummins to the wing, which should inject some more energy into the back line.

 

[Dizzy]

Former All Black strongman Richard Loe says the Boks' Eben Etzebeth had it coming when bitten by an Argentinean recently:

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/NZ-hard-man-blasts-Etzebeth-20130902

Cheers

Havent clicked on the link but this is what I was saying on the other thread. You cant throw stones from a glass house man. So what, you're supposed to be able to stangle someone and expect nothing of it?.. It's sad that the Argentineans are being labelled as "foul-players" and the media hype has been whether the All Blacks think the Argies are going to set out to cause disruption with foul play. When the reality is that, they weren't the ones going out there against South Africa with foul intent... If Etzebeth hadn't have taken his forearm across the throat of Senatore, "intentionally" I might add, then there wouldn't have been a reaction.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

On the Deans issue, he is a fine coach. He was given ample opportunity and did well with the Wallabies, but it was just time to change the guard.

Lets imagine for a minute that the All Blacks don't exist, deans would have taken us to number 1 in the world rankings and possible won a world cup, however I still think he would have been replaced at the end of 2015 regardless of the result.

If I can make any criticism of him, it appears like he tried to manage the players as if they were good old fashioned kiwi blokes and that probably would have worked with the All Blacks, horwill, mowen, Ashley-cooper, lealiifano etc. but when you try to apply that to JOC, beale and cooper, it's never going to work.

Also, if I remember correctly, a lot of kiwis were making comments about how good it was that deans was coaching Australia because he'd never be good enough to coach the all blacks, he had his chance as john Mitchell's assistant and blew it.

and of course our media is going to come out with campaigns like "this is our year" and "it's time to take back the bledisloe" it's the media FFS...
imagine how awesome it would be if foxsports came out with a campaign "lets bend over and get fisted from across the ditch for the 30th year on a row, it's time to pander to the All Blacks again" i'm sure kiwis would love to see that but it wont happen anytime soon, our media has to portray optimism for our team even though deep down we all knew it was going to be close to impossible.

 

[Dizzy]

On the Deans issue, he is a fine coach. He was given ample opportunity and did well with the Wallabies, but it was just time to change the guard.

Lets imagine for a minute that the All Blacks don't exist, deans would have taken us to number 1 in the world rankings and possible won a world cup, however I still think he would have been replaced at the end of 2015 regardless of the result.

If I can make any criticism of him, it appears like he tried to manage the players as if they were good old fashioned kiwi blokes and that probably would have worked with the All Blacks, horwill, mowen, Ashley-cooper, lealiifano etc. but when you try to apply that to JOC, beale and cooper, it's never going to work.

Also, if I remember correctly, a lot of kiwis were making comments about how good it was that deans was coaching Australia because he'd never be good enough to coach the all blacks, he had his chance as john Mitchell's assistant and blew it.

and of course our media is going to come out with campaigns like "this is our year" and "it's time to take back the bledisloe" it's the media FFS...
imagine how awesome it would be if foxsports came out with a campaign "lets bend over and get fisted from across the ditch for the 30th year on a row, it's time to pander to the All Blacks again" i'm sure kiwis would love to see that but it wont happen anytime soon, our media has to portray optimism for our team even though deep down we all knew it was going to be close to impossible.

Crack me up hahahaha.... I definitely agree with you. But it's not the media I screw my face at.... It's those three aussie blokes that do the commentary.. No matter what just happened their optimism doesn't disappear, its as if it gets stronger as the game goes on.. I remember watching the RWC Semi on FoxSports and the very first kick from Cooper went out on the full and I remember they were saying something like,.. oh thats nothing, it'll have no pressure on Cooper at the begininng of the game,... Then to the try, "OOOOHHHH he's out!!......" Then the replay of the try.... Silence....

 

[ABs2011]

Folau, Cummins, Ashley Cooper, Leali'ifano, O'Connor, Cooper, Genia; Slipper, Moore, Kepu, Simmons, Horwill, Fardy, Hooper, Mowen; Faingaa, Sio, Alexander, Doulglas, Schatz, White, Toomua, Mogg.

I like the team, but it will be no good if the OZ tactics don't change to complement the team they have named. Within reason the back three, in particular Folau, and also Cooper need to be given free rein to run when their instincts tell them to! Let's hope Genia can get back to his form of old with his old mate outside him as well!!

 

[ABs2011]

I hope you're all wrong, just like last year. too quick to write off the Wallabies after losing to the All Blacks.

Link has made several changes including Folau to FB, cooper in and cummins to the wing, which should inject some more energy into the back line.

You could well be right mate! Hence why this is one of the games of the tournament for me. It is hard to tell sometimes with the ABs how much of the poor play of the opposition is down to the good play of the ABs. OZ showed patches of good rugby v the ABs. They held on to possession well early, put pressure on the ABs at the breakdown, and scored points early. BUT I just don't understand their tactics....Why kick so much ball away?? More than that, their kicking was woeful so the combination of the two was disastrous. Run the ball, get the confidence up of the likes of Mogg, Folau, Cooper, O'Conner - that's when OZ are a real dangerous side!!

Good luck InsaneAsylum. For the sake of the ABs - and a rather large multi I have riding on the ABs this RC, I'm cheering for the Wallabies as well!! I like your well reasoned posts too by the way!

 

[jessta]

Crack me up hahahaha.... I definitely agree with you. But it's not the media I screw my face at.... It's those three aussie blokes that do the commentary.. No matter what just happened their optimism doesn't disappear, its as if it gets stronger as the game goes on.. I remember watching the RWC Semi on FoxSports and the very first kick from Cooper went out on the full and I remember they were saying something like,.. oh thats nothing, it'll have no pressure on Cooper at the begininng of the game,... Then to the try, "OOOOHHHH he's out!!......" Then the replay of the try.... Silence....

Yup they must be some of the most biased and ignorant commentators in world sport. Rod kafers the only decent one who knows what hes talking about. Greg martin I cant stand, I would love to hurl abuse at him

 

[jessta]

I like cummins! Very solid consistent player which is rare in australian rugby

 

[TRF_heineken]

Springbok Team:

1. Beast Mtawarira
2. Bismarck Du Plessis
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Flip van der Merwe
6. Francois Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen

9. Ruan Pienaar
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jean De Villiers (c)
13. JJ Engelbrecht
14. Willie Le Roux
15. Zane Kirchner

16. Adriaan Strauss
17. Guthro Steenkamp
18. Coenie Oosthuizen
19. Juandre Kruger
20. Siya Kolisi
21. Jano Vermaak
22. Pat Lambie
23. Jan Serfontein

So 3 changes to the team.

Habana back to his Blindside wing spot. Willie on the other Wing with Kirchner at fullback.

Well at least our back 3 are diverse...

HM playing it safe with keeping Lambie on the bench in case Morne gets injured...

 

[donmcdazzle]

There has to be a better fullback in SA than Kirchner, I refuse to believe he is the best you guys have?!

 

[TRF_heineken]

There has to be a better fullback in SA than Kirchner, I refuse to believe he is the best you guys have?!

He isn't.

Willie Le Roux and even Pat Lambie are both better. But because of lack of form and many injuries at fly half, Lambie is used as a back-up fly half rather than Fullback.

Willie is moved to wing in place of Bjorn Basson, who has been a bit off.

While Zane did have a good season with the Bulls, his one-dimensionality and aimless kicking has been one of the key reasons everyone dislikes him. That said, he's got a pretty good record of scoring tries against Aus. And his one-on-one tackling is pretty good.

As for other fullbacks, who aren't part of the touring squad, we have plenty of guys who are equal to/better than Zane:
Louis Ludik - Although, he's been used as a centre now
SP Marais - Played for the Kings and is now with the Sharks
Gio Aplon - Why he isn't in the squad is anyone's guess (maybe size)
Hell, I'll even throw in Frans Steyn. Even him being overweight, unfit and looking like a hobo is a better fullback than Zane...

 

[nickdnz]

Gio Aplon - Why he isn't in the squad is anyone's guess (maybe size)
Hell, I'll even throw in Frans Steyn. Even him being overweight, unfit and looking like a hobo is a better fullback than Zane...

Gio Aplon must be the most underrated outside backs in South Africa rugby. One of the few guys who can just step people consistently.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Gio Aplon must be the most underrated outside backs in South Africa rugby. One of the few guys who can just step people consistently.

Yeah, and his predecessor Cheslin Kolbe is even better.

But they both have a tendency to not defend very well.

If I look at the Bok team for this weekend, I see that it's strengthened for its defensive side. Bismarck, Flip and Zane are very good tacklers and defenders. I predict that this is going to be a grind it out kind of gameplan by the Boks

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yeah, and his predecessor Cheslin Kolbe is even better.

But they both have a tendency to not defend very well.

If I look at the Bok team for this weekend, I see that it's strengthened for its defensive side. Bismarck, Flip and Zane are very good tacklers and defenders. I predict that this is going to be a grind it out kind of gameplan by the Boks

Not predecessor but yeah I agree Kolbe is Aplon with even a little more bite. For WP though I want to see us experiment in Currie Cup with Kolbe at 9 seeing as we have lost 2 9's and we have Taute at 15 who I think will be a better fit; I have a problem with our back 3 being so tiny. Kolbe has played 9 in the past and he has what it takes; pace off the mark to take those small gaps, the pass and kick and in broken play.. well he can step an entire team and he's somewhat suspect defence can be mitigated at 9 where I'd want to see him play a sweeper role ala FdP. Not the right thread but a WP/Stormers backline of 9Kolbe, 10Catrakilis, 11Aplon, 12JdV, 13Howard, 14De Allende, 15Taute would be quite a handful IMO (20Schreuder, 21Van Aswegen, 22De Jongh).

 

[TRF_heineken]

Not predecessor but yeah I agree Kolbe is Aplon with even a little more bite. For WP though I want to see us experiment in Currie Cup with Kolbe at 9 seeing as we have lost 2 9's and we have Taute at 15 who I think will be a better fit; I have a problem with our back 3 being so tiny. Kolbe has played 9 in the past and he has what it takes; pace off the mark to take those small gaps, the pass and kick and in broken play.. well he can step an entire team and he's somewhat suspect defence can be mitigated at 9 where I'd want to see him play a sweeper role ala FdP. Not the right thread but a WP/Stormers backline of 9Kolbe, 10Catrakilis, 11Aplon, 12JdV, 13Howard, 14De Allende, 15Taute would be quite a handful IMO (20Schreuder, 21Van Aswegen, 22De Jongh).

Haha, yeah sorry, predecessor was the wrong word, that happens when you type while busy with a client on the phone...

Taute is the missing link to the bok back 3. If he's eventually ready again, he, Willie and Habana will be deadly!!

 

[nickdnz]

Not predecessor but yeah I agree Kolbe is Aplon with even a little more bite. For WP though I want to see us experiment in Currie Cup with Kolbe at 9 seeing as we have lost 2 9's and we have Taute at 15 who I think will be a better fit; I have a problem with our back 3 being so tiny. Kolbe has played 9 in the past and he has what it takes; pace off the mark to take those small gaps, the pass and kick and in broken play.. well he can step an entire team and he's somewhat suspect defence can be mitigated at 9 where I'd want to see him play a sweeper role ala FdP. Not the right thread but a WP/Stormers backline of 9Kolbe, 10Catrakilis, 11Aplon, 12JdV, 13Howard, 14De Allende, 15Taute would be quite a handful IMO (20Schreuder, 21Van Aswegen, 22De Jongh).

But looking at Kolbe, surely taking away all that space is just going to limit him. The guy was tearing things up in the JWRC - but I think moving him to halfback is simiolar to what happened to Shane Williams, which clearly wasn't where you could get the best out of him.

 

[TRF_heineken]

But looking at Kolbe, surely taking away all that space is just going to limit him. The guy was tearing things up in the JWRC - but I think moving him to halfback is simiolar to what happened to Shane Williams, which clearly wasn't where you could get the best out of him.

You are forgetting that he's South African... he's anyways limited... When it comes to space