[2013 Premiership] Round 1

[Tony Manx]

I am totally screwed. Currie Cup. ITM. RC. And now Aviva. My DVR is gonna 'splode!!!!!!

However do I choose which matches/competitions to watch? And it's just not right having Biggs not starting for Bath. I need my eye candy!!! (Unless he cut his hair...if so, he can sit on the bench all day!)

One of these days I'm going to stop picking my favorites based on looks (though it sure doesn't stop any of you ol' blokes from drooling over that Ha'penny feller. ;-) )

das

Always good value Das!! Can we tempt you into the Top 14 at all..............plenty of eye candy there for you!!?

 

[dasNdanger]

One of us...

Always good value Das!! Can we tempt you into the Top 14 at all..............plenty of eye candy there for you!!?

I don't get Top 14 on my tellie here. :-( I wouldn't mind watching a buncha Frenchmen playing with the wobbly ball, though. I was quite partial Chabal back in the day.



das

 

[TRF_Olyy]

They do now have a load of good ball carriers in the forwards with Sisi, Garvey, Houston, Fa'osiliva (potentially) added to what they had before.

Very true - they've got some big guys in the tight 5 too (the likes of James, Wilson, Attwood, Webber, Perenise).
The more I think about the more I really like the side Bath have put together. Just have to wait and see whether Booth et al can get the best out of them/apply the right gameplan.
It's a shame that Hooper is their captain as I don't rate him at all, certainly not as good as Garvey, Attwood, Caldwell and Day.

 

[psychic duck]

15. Anthony Watson
14. Semesa Rokoduguni
13. Jonathan Joseph
12. Kyle Eastmond
11. Matt Banahan
10. George Ford
9. Peter Stringer
1. Paul James
2. Rob Webber
3. David Wilson
4. Stuart Hooper ( c )
5. Dave Attwood
6. Matt Garvey
7. Mat Gilbert
8. Leroy Houston

Replacements

16. Ross Batty
17. Nathan Catt
18. Anthony Perenise
19. Dominic Day
20. Alafoti Fa'osiliva
21. Micky Young
22. Gavin Henson
23. Tom Biggs

So has the Bath academy been a bit naff of late? Not a single player there to my knowledge who they have produced themselves.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Devoto and Mercer are injured, and would almost definitely have been picked had they not been.

 

[j'nuh]

So has the Bath academy been a bit naff of late? Not a single player there to my knowledge who they have produced themselves.

Yes, but on the other hand, Irish's has been fantastic.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Wasps and Quins teams are up:

London Wasps team
15 Andrea Masi
14 Christian Wade
13 Ben Jacobs
12 Charlie Hayter
11 Tom Varndell
10 Andy Goode
9 Joe Simpson
1 Matt Mullan
2 Tom Lindsay
3 Jake Cooper-Woolley
4 Joe Launchbury
5 Tom Palmer
6 Sam Jones (captan)
7 Guy Thompson
8 Ed Jackson

Replacements
16 Neil Cochrane
17 Simon McIntyre
18 Will Taylor
19 James Cannon
20 Ashley Johnson
21 Charlie Davies
22 Joe Carlisle
23 Tommy Bell
Harlequins team
15. Mike Brown
14. Paul Sackey
13. George Lowe
12. Jordan Turner-Hall
11. Ugo Monye
10. Nick Evans
9. Danny Care

1. Joe Marler
2. Joe Gray
3. Will Collier
4. George Merrick
5. George Robson
6. Luke Wallace
7. Chris Robshaw (C)
8. Nick Easter

Replacements
16. Rob Buchanan
17. Mark Lambert
18. Paul Doran Jones
19. Maurie Fa'asavalu
20. Tom Guest
21. Karl Dickson
22. Ben Botica
23. Charlie Walker

Wasps is pretty much as I expected - except Chris Bell and Phil Swainston weren't fit, so instead we've got Charlie Hayter and Cooper-Wooley. Also, Launchbury and Palmer get the nod at lock so I was completely wrong on that front.

I'm pretty confident we can compete, especially in terms of the starting line-ups. Where Quins have clearly got the edge is on the bench. Our back-row is one with tons of potential I believe, but less in the way of premiership experience - be interesting to see if we can live with Quins in that area of the game.

Seriously though, somethings seriously wrong with the world when Luke Wallace is starting at 6 and Chris Robshaw starting at 7

 

[j'nuh]

After seeing the squads this weekend:

6. Wood

6. Wallace

6. Sam Jones

...

are we English going down the South African route of naming the fetcher at 6?

Maybe... but nothing explains the Sarries selection of:

6. Billy Vunipola.

Gonna be a sight, Binny hanging onto the side of the scrum.

 

[welshglory]

They're just numbers at the end of the day.
They'll probably be playing left and right with Fa'asavalu replacing Wallace for impact.

 

[welshglory]

Also since when was Wood a fetcher?

 

[j'nuh]

He specialised as a 7 a couple of years ago, his biggest trait being his breakdown work. He's taken on a lot more work and become more of an all-rounder now, but he certainly used to be the main fetcher at Saints (still probably is).

 

[welshglory]

Meh he's a flanker that's all i know.
Grafter is what i'd call him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Sale Side:

Tom Arscott, Phil McKenzie, Andy Forsyth, Jonny Leota, Mark Cueto, Nick Macleod, Dwayne Peel, Eifion Lewis Roberts, Marc Jones, Henry Thomas, Johnathan Mills, Michael Paterson, Dan Braid Captain, David Seymour, James Gaskell
Replacements Tommy Taylor, Ross Harrison, Vadim Cobilas, Kirill Kulemin, Josh Beaumont, Will Cliff, Joe Ford, Rob Miller


Eeeeeerrrmmmmm....
We don't have the props to support that 2nd row - Henry needs all the help he can get, so needs Kulemin or Holmes behind him (I'm presuming Ostrikov is injured, as he should be on of the first names on the sheet otherwise). I would have Paterson at 6 with Seymour on the bench (we have Josh Beaumont, a lock who can cover 8, at backrow replacement).
Seymour and Braid will be a massive nuisance at the breakdown, but without the firepower/support elsewhere they're just going to get smashed off the ball. If Gloucester send Morgan to hit a ruck, we're going to counter with Gaskell?

Backs are good - Cueto and Peel both look on fine form after the pre-season. Cueto has said it's his first full pre-season in a loooooooong time, and he was carrying a knee injury pretty much all of last season, which explained his poor kicking and worse-than-usual-speed. Leota and Forsyth would be my centre partnership going forward. Great to see MacKenzie involved, not sure whether Brady picked up a knock or they're just putting a lot of faith in MacKenzie. Arscott on fantastic form in pre-season.
I'm a little surprised at MacLeod starting - I rate him higher than many Sale fans, but I was expecting Cipriani starting with Ford on the bench.
It's great to see Eifion and Miller back after long injury lay offs, as well.


I'm less optimistic about this game, now - we were blown away by their pack at Kingsholm last year, and I can see the same happening tomorrow. Just don't have the grunt.
Glawster by 10+, with a BP.

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://www.espn.co.uk/blogs/rugby/story/197045.html

Nick Kennedy out until November.

 

[Peat]

Size isn't everything, and you could say that those players would have a whale of a time running circles around Gloucester's lumps.

I think their backline (- tugboat) + bench looks insanely good - get them some good ball and they'll run in tries for fun.

Most of the time this will be fine. I predict against some defences, the drift will be too much, and Bath will simply end up running from one side to another looking for gaps. Yeah, the ball carrying potential of that pack should help alleviate things, but it never does entirely. I would also say the same thing about Gloucester. A lot rests on both Banahan and Twelvetrees to step in and straighten the line - and in the fullness of time, I think Henson will end up starting one of 10 or 12 for Bath, if he stays fit and interested.

Also, I'm with j'nuh, making the tackle 5 yards behind the advantage line isn't good enough, and that could end up putting a lot of stress upon the back row to step in and help, preventing them from getting wide or being in place for turnovers.

Finally, I'm still not entirely convinced Bath will use those backs properly.

 

[j'nuh]

Most of the time this will be fine. I predict against some defences, the drift will be too much, and Bath will simply end up running from one side to another looking for gaps. Yeah, the ball carrying potential of that pack should help alleviate things, but it never does entirely. I would also say the same thing about Gloucester. A lot rests on both Banahan and Twelvetrees to step in and straighten the line - and in the fullness of time, I think Henson will end up starting one of 10 or 12 for Bath, if he stays fit and interested.

Also, I'm with j'nuh, making the tackle 5 yards behind the advantage line isn't good enough, and that could end up putting a lot of stress upon the back row to step in and help, preventing them from getting wide or being in place for turnovers.

Finally, I'm still not entirely convinced Bath will use those backs properly.

I don't think this is true any more. It certainly happened the season before ND arrived, but he's stomped a lot of that out. It happened twice last year from what I remember - against Sale and Biarritz. But for the first half of the season, Glos ground out a number of wins when we lost our strike players (May, Trinder, JSD, Olly Morgan). Glos scored the fewest number of tries amongst the top 8 teams. In particular, we scored fewer and conceded more than Bath! We still got 5th, and that's because we've become more than just an attacking team. We can hammer away, and win by scoring a 3-point multiple. And as far as attacking from side-to-side goes, I think in Morgan and Kalamafoni, with Qera on the bench, we have the strongest carrying backrow in the league. And Burns varies his kicking options. He grubbered a kick for Twelvetrees to jot down just last week. From memory, he did the same for Sharples last year, and there was that chip-and-collect against the Tigers. JSD also creates as much as he finishes, and can create magic out of nowhere.

That's what I think is great about the Glos backline. The fast handling of Burns and Twelvetrees, plus the pace and finishing of May and Trinder punishes a blitz defence, whereas the carrying ability of Kalamafoni and Morgan plus the creativity of Burns and JSD punishes a drift defence. And when neither works, we grind.

Gloucester are experts at breaking down defences... it's the set piece, the ball retention, the number of players which are prone to injury, the simple mistakes, the lack of a tight carrying game, that stops Glos taking it to the next level.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Raining cats and dogs in Newcastle....I quite fancy Newcastle, in that case.
They play well at home in crap conditions.

 

[Peat]

My words are haunted by the spectre of Twickenham last season. Ulster spent a lot of that game running from side to side, despite a bigger backline than either Glaws or Bath, and a back row containing Nick Williams and Iain Henderson couldn't make a purchase in terms of carrying either. I can make excuses for why this didn't happen due to fitness and what not, but a pretty brutal carrying pack could not get through Saracens, not could a crafty backline, and as such we shuttled side to side. To a certain extent, that's a failure of tactics as much as anything, but it is the issue with a backline where just about every player prefers to go around players. I think Glaws might be better off with a young Tindall rather than Trinder, and am intrigued to see how Eastmond/Joseph does on a regular basis. Both Glaws and Bath have very excited backlines, I just think they could be better-balanced.

That said - this is the counsel of perfection, the "What wins trophies" mentality, and most defences will be unable to cope with either backline if presented with good ball. Plus, Burns has a strong territorial kicking game, and Ford does, which is a vital alternative.

 

[Tony Manx]

TRF_OLYY any chance you could add ko times to your excellent fixtures details! Appreciate it!

 

[j'nuh]

My words are haunted by the spectre of Twickenham last season. Ulster spent a lot of that game running from side to side, despite a bigger backline than either Glaws or Bath, and a back row containing Nick Williams and Iain Henderson couldn't make a purchase in terms of carrying either. I can make excuses for why this didn't happen due to fitness and what not, but a pretty brutal carrying pack could not get through Saracens, not could a crafty backline, and as such we shuttled side to side. To a certain extent, that's a failure of tactics as much as anything, but it is the issue with a backline where just about every player prefers to go around players. I think Glaws might be better off with a young Tindall rather than Trinder, and am intrigued to see how Eastmond/Joseph does on a regular basis. Both Glaws and Bath have very excited backlines, I just think they could be better-balanced.

That said - this is the counsel of perfection, the "What wins trophies" mentality, and most defences will be unable to cope with either backline if presented with good ball. Plus, Burns has a strong territorial kicking game, and Ford does, which is a vital alternative.

Stay tuned... a recent rumour has it that Trinder is leaving at the end of the season. Tindall should retire too, so it'll be interesting to see who replaces them.

In any case, Twelvetrees is decently big at nearly 16 st. Makes him one of the biggest starting 12s in the league. And Morgan comes into the backline often. Between them two, you're going to shift some people, with Trinder almost extending the outside back numbers.