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[2013 EOYT] France

Sorry Big Ewis but since the World Cup we've lost 11 out of the 18 matches played so forgive me if I'm not as positive as you

But don't take this the wrong way, I still love France and can't wait to see them play but I'm allowed to be a little disappointed in them at the moment
 
I just need a win man!! please just give me a win! Just one will do! I forgotten what it feels like!
 
Sorry let me rephrase that 1st comment,
We've only won 7 out of the last 18 games 

I understand, and not to be the redundant moralistic uplifting village idiot, but though that stat is a reality, and has its consequences and meaning (and is no stat France should ever show), you can't use it in absolute terms.
They include: one bad campaign in the 2012 6N, a complete, horrible underestimating of the Argies B that summer (before putting 50 on them the next test) and then a huge accident on the road with that Wooden Spoon in '13. And our efforts in NZ, though we came back with 0 win, were very respectable.
I'm guessing that 7 of 18 stat doesn't include the two draws with Ireland.

I mean sure the stat is aaaaaawful for a side like France, but it's happened during a total rebuilding process (new coach, new players..) and a time where we lost track of how to win (2013 6N) and then the worst possible tour (3 matches IN New Zealand) - all those things are apparently necessary for us to wake up, and I don't look at the overall stat but rather the separate stages of our tests post-2011 RWC.
 
I do really love your optimism Big Ewis and I agree with a lot of what you say. France has, is and always will be a formidable team and they are well due a win! let's hope we pull a good old fashion beautiful french win against the All Blacks on the 9th!
 
I do really love your optimism Big Ewis and I agree with a lot of what you say. France has, is and always will be a formidable team and they are well due a win!  let's hope we pull a good old fashion beautiful french win against the All Blacks on the 9th! 

I see where you're coming from, France has sucked overall since the RWC, but on paper there's a potential that will not remain dormant the whole way, we'll wake up all of a sudden, you know how it is...probably in the least expected match...
but PSA may not be all that bad of a coach, it's hard to know with France really what's wrong. Whatever it is, the worst hasn't happened yet. We've just come off a RWC Final we should've won, or officially lost by 1 point, and things are looking pretty good for 2015. In fact, we've got so much depth and new blood on the team it's becoming a problem. We ought to pick a final lineup and keep playing it.

But yes, potential is potential, and it's nice to have potential but one day of course we need to realize that potential. My only concern (but not fear) is how long it's going to take for us to finally get on the right path. I'm not asking that we win 95% of our games, but at very least use all we've got and channel those strengths into good form.
For God's sake how many teams have our scrum, a Picamoles, a Nyanga flanker who can side-step like a back, a Fofana at center, a Bastareaud or Debaty off the bench ?? we have unusual talent throughout our entire roster almost...
we'll get there soon though. It's inevitable. Maybe the All-Blacks coming to town will do us the greatest good.
 
What are the French players' physical conditioning like? On the Rugby Club, on Sky Sports, Pat Sanderson and Shane Horgan were commenting that it isn't good and that is what is letting the French teams down in the Heinekin Cup. Is this a problem of Top 14 teams?

The French team,IMO, has shown their Jekyll and Hyde split personalities last November and so far in 2013; brilliant or diabolical. Never an inbetween. That is what makes them fascinating and you can never write them off. For a French fan it must be very frustrating.
 
What are the French players' physical conditioning like? On the Rugby Club, on Sky Sports, Pat Sanderson and Shane Horgan were commenting that it isn't good and that is what is letting the French teams down in the Heinekin Cup. Is this a problem of Top 14 teams?

The French team,IMO, has shown their Jekyll and Hyde split personalities last November and so far in 2013; brilliant or diabolical. Never an inbetween. That is what makes them fascinating and you can never write them off. For a French fan it must be very frustrating.

Didn't see the Rugby Club this week unfortunately but I have to agree with them. You can arguably get away with it in the Top 14 but European ties are completely different. Especially away from home.

As for France, you just never know with them do you. If they turn up they are capable of beating most sides in world Rugby in my opinion. Some real strike threats throughout the side, who if can actually be bothered to show up with cause problems. They are just an impossible team to predict.
 
Saint Matt, if you've got access to a Skysports subscription just go to on demand and you'll find Thursday's episode of the Rugby club on there.
 
I agree with both of you gentlemen. France is very feminine. Impulsive and irregular.

I don't know about French conditioning and the HC particularly, but conditioning was clearly a huge problem before and at the beginning of the pro era. PSA was astonished, shocked even with the conditioning of the English players when he coached there for some time. So typically French and English: the former relies on his natural ardor and ability, the latter works hard and regularly and gets the results.

As of late though, the only thing I can say (no idea about Premiership and Top 14 conditioning tbh.....) is national side wise, we do have our typical "excuses":
Top 14 calendar way too packed (players often elude to that, or make a remark about it in interviews even..), most of the time very little preparation time for tours or tournaments.
If that could be taken care of (of course it won't, because only one thing talks: money, and well before national pride and priority...), I would never ever use an "excuse" for France. But they're facts, and do influence the outcome. One Rugby match isn't a bicycle trip in the forest, and a national side's players playing 10 or more games a year than another side's players unfortunately makes a difference...

This will forever haunt me...the inconsistency because France are psychologically fragile I don't mind as much, as long as they're rested and fresh. But my guys being tired against a fresh team, I can't accept. The worst example of this is of course FRA AUS 2010. I keep bringing it up on this forum, but 16-13 France to start the second half. Long story short (looooooooooooooooooong story): we stayed at 16. They went up to 59. It was the last game of the year, late in November. I can never, ever accept that France for whatever reason aren't physically ready for an international match, and I don't care if it's "just an Autumn International".
 
My little experience and hear say on the fitness in France is that it is not up to the UK or SH standards and that overall the life style is such that they will not be as fit as those players in the Birtish Isles or Southern Hempsiphere.

However, I would readily bow to the experience that Gaston has based on his experience as a rugby player and now an official with Montpellier and hope he comes on and gives his views and experiennces?
 
I do not think that the fitness problem is there at all, what many people from the UK do not understand is the significance of the Bouclier de Brennus. The French league is fought to the last breath as this is the only Cup that has to be won. The H Cup is a bonus but has a lot less importance than the Bouclier, the very fact that the the Top 14 has 2 more teams than the Rabo or the Premiership, +2 relegation spots (4 more games per season) makes for very tough matches, after 10 days of TOP 14 there are 5 points separating the top 9 teams I know there is the English Welsh cup thing but it is nowhere near the same intensity. The French teams play too many matches at a very high calibre, and therefore when it comes to Internationals the bodies are tired, during these Autumn Internationals all players will get a weeks holiday bar the ones participating who will get time off later, but a week is nothing. I see players week in week out and after 10 days of intense rugby some are knackered and the injuries become more apparent when the body is tired. This is a very difficult situation because the clubs are backed by wealthy sponsors who also want results and nobody wants to go into the Pro D2 as it is very competitive and you do not always come straight back, only Brive managed this last season it's a rare thing to bounce straight back into the TOP 14.
The lifestyle in the South of France is one of the best in the world as far as health goes, there are roughly 22,000 people over 100 yrs old in France and they live mostly in the South admittidly there do not all play Pro rugby but that suggests a very good life style, since rugby turned Pro the troisieme mi temps is out of the window, a lot of the guys do not drink at all. The National team is another matter i for one think the coach is at fault, not the players, but they do take some blame for their poor performances, eg Mickalak playing at 10 when in poor form and never playing 10 for his club, or selecting a huge range of players over the last 3 yrs and France still do not have a 1 to 15 national team ready for the next WC with only a few exceptions. to summerise the TOP 14 takes far too much out of the players, if you saw the matches this weekend alone, you would start to understand the problem. Voila there's my 3 penneth on the situation.
 
I do not think that the fitness problem is there at all, what many people from the UK do not understand is the significance of the Bouclier de Brennus. The French league is fought to the last breath as this is the only Cup that has to be won. The H Cup is a bonus but has a lot less importance than the Bouclier, the very fact that the the Top 14 has 2 more teams than the Rabo or the Premiership, +2 relegation spots (4 more games per season) makes for very tough matches, after 10 days of TOP 14 there are 5 points separating the top 9 teams I know there is the English Welsh cup thing but it is nowhere near the same intensity. The French teams play too many matches at a very high calibre, and therefore when it comes to Internationals the bodies are tired, during these Autumn Internationals all players will get a weeks holiday bar the ones participating who will get time off later, but a week is nothing. I see players week in week out and after 10 days of intense rugby some are knackered and the injuries become more apparent when the body is tired. This is a very difficult situation because the clubs are backed by wealthy sponsors who also want results and nobody wants to go into the Pro D2 as it is very competitive and you do not always come straight back, only Brive managed this last season it's a rare thing to bounce straight back into the TOP 14.
The lifestyle in the South of France is one of the best in the world as far as health goes, there are roughly 22,000 people over 100 yrs old in France and they live mostly in the South admittidly there do not all play Pro rugby but that suggests a very good life style, since rugby turned Pro the troisieme mi temps is out of the window, a lot of the guys do not drink at all. The National team is another matter i for one think the coach is at fault, not the players, but they do take some blame for their poor performances, eg Mickalak playing at 10 when in poor form and never playing 10 for his club, or selecting a huge range of players over the last 3 yrs and France still do not have a 1 to 15 national team ready for the next WC with only a few exceptions. to summerise the TOP 14 takes far too much out of the players, if you saw the matches this weekend alone, you would start to understand the problem. Voila there's my 3 penneth on the situation.

well said. Thanks for that paragraph. And not even a single exclamation mark, I'm really impressed !! :p
Yes, life is "cool" in the South. I notice it every summer when I go to Draguignan (town in the Southeast, 40min from Nice and Cannes...). It's not like people are asleep all the time, but when ppl work they take their time. They talk a lot, laugh around, the atmosphere is very relaxed. Nothing like Paris, I bet the oldest person in Paris is 70 yo right now !! Stress, stress, stress.
And then it's a common fact that fairly wealthy ppl from Paris or the North or Alsace (German border) retire down south. They're called "snowbirds" in English, like the ppl from Canada or Minnesota who migrate to Florida when they're done working in Northern America. To realize the cliché, my very neighbors in Draguignan are snowbirds from Alsace, a very bourgeois middle-aged couple retired from hard labor and snow :D

Anyways: Saint-André is to blame for sure, at least in part. When you have a quality group of guys, and TERRIBLE results, obviously it's down to the game plan and preparation of those quality players. But I think it'll come along eventually, but I would prefer another coach probably...Galthié, Laporte back ?...I dunno, there were better options out there.
About Pro D2: I read on some mag (can't remember who said it) that the Pro D2 is even tougher than the Top 14. Surely that's not an objective reality, but for someone to even make that comment has its weight in its own right. I THHHHHHINK it was Rémi Grosso from Castres...

And again......again....yes, the French Rugby injustice is horrible, almost moribund. And it won't change because....MONEH MONEH MONEH MOHHHHH-NEHHH !!.......











maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahnehhhhhh !!
 
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In a life many moons ago i have played against Draguignan on a number of occaisions + lots of other teams in the Var, well know for matches not arriving at the full 80 mins, "Bagarres General" lots of them, but that was the morm for most games, even had a few in Stade Mayol.
 
In a life many moons ago i have played against Draguignan on a number of occaisions + lots of other teams in the Var, well know for matches not arriving at the full 80 mins, "Bagarres General" lots of them, but that was the morm for most games, even had a few in Stade Mayol.

hah ! nice ! :D
Funny, I actually met a former Draguignan prop last August. And yeh, he told me about some fights too, lol...you see RCT (Toulon) stickers on every car in the Var ! :p
 
Yes it was not only the fitness/conditioning of the French players which was questioned by Pat Sanderson, Shane Horgan and Will Greenwood but also PSA's selections of players not in their natural positions: not choosing a proper 10, choosing one of the best 12s in Fofana on the wing???!!! In Will Greenwood's word: "what are you doing????":eek:

If PSA can stop faffing about and choose players in their proper positions then France can be a formidable team this Autumn and for the 6N.
 
Yes it was not only the fitness/conditioning of the French players which was questioned by Pat Sanderson, Shane Horgan and Will Greenwood but also PSA's selections of players not in their natural positions: not choosing a proper 10, choosing one of the best 12s in Fofana on the wing???!!! In Will Greenwood's word: "what are you doing????":eek:

If PSA can stop faffing about and choose players in their proper positions then France can be a formidable team this Autumn and for the 6N.

that's not nearly the problem though. Our woes have almost nothing to do with positioning issues, alas, if it were that simple. Huget who played out of position at FB handled it like a pro for e.g., it's all the rest that is to be reviewed. Our guys played extremely hard during the last 6N, but not the right way. We looked clueless against Wales at home, and England on the road and lost both those matches by 10. We looked mediocre at best in Ireland, and we easily could have put more on Scotland but that was good overall. Italy stunned us, and we just didn't have enough time together, every other team had weeks to prepare, not us....never us :p
Playing hard is good, but again, we need to channel our potential in the right direction. We looked clueless last Feb. at times, and thank God for that Fofana try in Twickers, and Tuilagi can thank God himself they actually awarded that try of his own.

The thing is, in all our glorious decaying, we haven't been thrashed by anyone in any recent meeting since the RWC, if not for that disaster in test 2 NZ, but that was just the pinnacle of our current shyttiness, Michalak in all his marvel...I'll repeat that day, many teams would have beaten us. It was almost scary how little plan we had, we were just sort of......out there....playing ball for 80min....
So like I said, we haven't been destroyed by anyone all this time, which couldn't be said about many teams without a game plan. Another team would've been dismantled without a proper game plan, but solely because we have top players at basically every position, we managed to survive and hang in there based on talent alone. "We're running on empty" so to speak.
What a waaaaaaste !!.....what a waste........

We haven't beaten Wales, England or Ireland since the changes (post-RWC)...another loss in Italy, and of course the typical French underestimating in Argentina in 2012 when we lost that first test to Arg. B.

It really shows just how the FFR isn't taken seriously. A national side is sent to NZ without a gameplan and puts up a performance like test 2...
 
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nooooooooooooooooooooooooo now Picamoles is out too !!!!
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_8995974,00.html

Oh boy...thank GOD for our depth, but we're seriously missing some pieces now.
I think we really needed to be full strength if we were going to beat NZ...but on the other hand we came relatively close in test 3, away in NZ, and we weren't nearly a complete squad.

Boy....disappooooooointing.
 
nooooooooooooooooooooooooo now Picamoles is out too !!!!
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_8995974,00.html

Oh boy...thank GOD for our depth, but we're seriously missing some pieces now.
I think we really needed to be full strength if we were going to beat NZ...but on the other hand we came relatively close in test 3, away in NZ, and we weren't nearly a complete squad.

Boy....disappooooooointing.

But is does sound like this is only a precautionary call-up/return call; that he (Picalo) is still to get a full 'prognosis' and MIGHT be available if not for all the games?

At least I hope so; I was looking forward to see the SA loose trio up against stiff competition.
 
Eh? How come Galan has been overlooked? Is Claassen much better?
 
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