[2013 EOYT] England

[Prestwick]

As an aside from the toddler talk, I though Brown stood out (again) in a poor Harlequins showing. Even when Quins look dire, this season, he's been a shining light. Good to see him being so consistent with his form.


Also, Dave Seymour chased down a winger, from the opposite side of the pitch, to make a try saving tackle last night.
Now I'm not saying Robshaw couldn't ​do that, but.....

Also also, Cipriani played well (again) and Tommy Taylor had a great game too, especially in the lineout in tough conditions - wouldn't mind seeing him in the Saxons.

I'd vouch for Seymour. He's been turning in performances like that ever since he could walk.

Cipriani and Farrell would be a better mix in the senior squad than Flood. He was good but in recent years (before Farrell showed up) he only showed flashes of what he was capable of. Farrell is solid, can kick his points and is getting better every season with his passing and where he stands. Cipriani is the go to guy to get a back line running and has improved his defence and toughness immeasurably with his stays at the Rebels and now Sale. Always rated Steve Diamond and he really has given Cipriani some tough love and is now reaping the rewards!

I'd back Goode being dropped though. He's been all over the place all season. He's been pushed between full back and fly half and he got pummeled whenever he's gone near that 10 jersey for Saracens. Can't be good for your frame of mind. Besides, we've got Brown in the form of his life and for now it'd be better to give Foden's berth to a new guy and see how he fares.

 

[McTallshort]

I'd vouch for Seymour. He's been turning in performances like that ever since he could walk.

Cipriani and Farrell would be a better mix in the senior squad than Flood. He was good but in recent years (before Farrell showed up) he only showed flashes of what he was capable of. Farrell is solid, can kick his points and is getting better every season with his passing and where he stands. Cipriani is the go to guy to get a back line running and has improved his defence and toughness immeasurably with his stays at the Rebels and now Sale. Always rated Steve Diamond and he really has given Cipriani some tough love and is now reaping the rewards!

I'd back Goode being dropped though. He's been all over the place all season. He's been pushed between full back and fly half and he got pummeled whenever he's gone near that 10 jersey for Saracens. Can't be good for your frame of mind. Besides, we've got Brown in the form of his life and for now it'd be better to give Foden's berth to a new guy and see how he fares.

No he doesnt....

 

[ratsapprentice]

Farrell has improved his passing and positioning... but so marginally and from such a low point that it's still difficult to explain how he's considered so far ahead of everyone else.

 

[Prestwick]

He is though. Farrell has improved immeasurably on last season. If the gains were really so marginal, I honestly don't think Saracens excellent start to the season would have been possible. The thing is, I don't think he's considered "so far" at all. He's got the nod though on the back of his defensive ability and his ability to kick points. His attacking ability is slowly starting to come out and I think thats positive for England.

Get Cipriani and Farrell in the squad and you'll have all the bases covered whatever the situation.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Saracens are an extremely efficient team, who absolutely understand how to maintain dominance throughout our domestic season.
No arguments there. They are an extremely effective team - their game is based on workrate not individual skill.
Do not take that as some sort of admonishment - it's a very good trait and a sign of good coaching.
I have seen no evidence of Farrell having anything other than bottom rung Tier 1 international attacking skills.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

His kicking is very very overrated as well, mainly thanks to Stuart Barnes/Sky Sports.
He's a good kicker, but he's no Halfpenny, and has some shockers. I'd say he's no better than Flood/Ford - Cipriani wouldn't be too far behind, either (he nails touchline conversions but then misses easier ones :lol

 

[Prestwick]

With all due respect I think it takes more than a high workrate to maintain such an excellent start to this season with the most try bonus points and scoring only one less try than current leaders Saints. It is down to individual skill as much as it is the work rate of the pack which sets things up. Farrell has sat flatter this season, far flatter than previously and that has helped immeasurably.

They're certainly not there yet and I think we're gonna see a Saints - Tigers rematch in this years final (only "proper" clubs allowed apparently /sarcasm) but they've turned on the skills this season and the results have showed

Farrell keeps the scoreboard ticking over for England and combined with Barritt is quite the defensive captain. Now we're (hopefully) going to see him open up a bit.

One interesting question is who should be on the wings if Wade and Yarde aren't going to feature? Cameos from some of the younger guys?

 

[ratsapprentice]

With all due respect I think it takes more than a high workrate to maintain such an excellent start to this season with the most try bonus points

They are an extremely effective team - their game is based on workrate not individual skill.

You are vastly overstating how well he has played and completely ignoring the gulf in quality between domestic rugby and international rugby.


Jack Nowell has to play IMO

 

[TRF_Olyy]

One interesting question is who should be on the wings if Wade and Yarde aren't going to feature? Cameos from some of the younger guys?

Anyone.
I'm expecting to Lancaster to go with Strettle and Ashton, though, which makes me feel a little bit sick.

Even if the youngsters (Elliot, Nowell, Walker) get mega stage fright, they couldn't do a worse job than Ashton has done of late. Sounds like hyperbole but Ashton has done absolutely nothing in an England shirt for a while now, his defence is poor and he gives away a penalty every time he looks at a ruck.

They could, equally, go the other way and bring in someone like Cueto and/or Monye (though I think he's injured?) for the 6N to keep the ship steady until Wade and Yarde are back - not sure whether that's a smart idea this close to the WC though, as you want as many players to have at least a bit of int experience in case of injury next summer.

 

[Maverick1987]

I've not got a problem with Farrell playing he's strong , abrasive and very steady with the boot . Only game I can remember for England that he was poor with the boot was vs wales last year . What I do have a problem with is playing Farrell, Barritt and tuilagi all together it's too defensive. We need 1 of these changed Farrell, eastmond and tuilagi sounds much better would probably give Farrell far more time too as eastmond isn't as easy to read as barritt doing the same thing over and over

 

[j'nuh]

I'm okay with Farrell staying for now, as long as we have a creative 11-15. Farrell, May, Twelvetrees, don't know, Nowell, Brown + Burns/Ford/Cipriani/Eastmond, Foden on the bench.

 

[Maverick1987]

I'm okay with Farrell staying for now, as long as we have a creative 11-15. Farrell, May, Twelvetrees, don't know, Nowell, Brown + Burns/Ford/Cipriani/Eastmond, Foden on the bench.

I would really like to see :

B. Youngs
Farrell
May
Eastmond
Joseph
Nowell
Brown

I only went for eastmond and Joseph because they already know each other and maybe won't affect having a lot of uncapped players all at once plus they have been good going forward and defensively for bath of late

Like I said before I don't really mind if barritt plays OC as long as there's a creative IC 36 and barritt were good together against Scotland at the start of the 6N last year

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Really don't think youngs should be starting for england, hes been terrible recently.
Care and Dickson, flip a coin for who starts.
Not exactly awe inspiring but the best we have atm.

 

[McTallshort]

I'm okay with Farrell staying for now, as long as we have a creative 11-15. Farrell, May, Twelvetrees, don't know, Nowell, Brown + Burns/Ford/Cipriani/Eastmond, Foden on the bench.

Wrong this, Your half backs run the game, doesnt matter if your pack is totally on top or you have the most creative backline in the world if your half backs are a crabber (Youngs) or a one dimentional shoveller (Farrell) your wasting your time.

 

[Maverick1987]

Wrong this, Your half backs run the game, doesnt matter if your pack is totally on top or you have the most creative backline in the world if your half backs are a crabber (Youngs) or a one dimentional shoveller (Farrell) your wasting your time.

Wales have won 9 of 10 in the 6N with Phillips and biggar .,,,..

 

[Maverick1987]

Really don't think youngs should be starting for england, hes been terrible recently.
Care and Dickson, flip a coin for who starts.
Not exactly awe inspiring but the best we have atm.

Dickson isn't international quality . IMO he proved exactly bugger all in the AIs

We looked better everytime Youngs came on the pitch plus Youngs form has been better of late he was really poor at the start of the season

 

[McTallshort]

Wales have won 9 of 10 in the 6N with Phillips and biggar .,,,..

Against any of the top 3 sides?

 

[Crapspray]

Dickson isn't international quality . IMO he proved exactly bugger all in the AIs

We looked better everytime Youngs came on the pitch plus Youngs form has been better of late he was really poor at the start of the season

He proved he can get quick ball from the base of a ruck. Without taking three seconds and four steps to give a crap pass to the fly-half.

Wales have won 9 of 10 in the 6N with Phillips and biggar .,,,..

What about outside it? England have won 8 from 10 in the 6N with Youngs and Farrell. The 6N, for all the rivalry, isn't a reliable barometer for any side looking to climb up the rankings. (That is to say, start beating the SANZAR regularly.)

Having decent backs around Farrell would assuage most of his problems, but if we can get Farrell's reliability into someone like Ford or Burns, then it's a no-brainer. We won't do more than pop up into the top three briefly with him in his current state.

 

[Maverick1987]

He proved he can get quick ball from the base of a ruck. Without taking three seconds and four steps to give a crap pass to the fly-half.



What about outside it? England have won 8 from 10 in the 6N with Youngs and Farrell. The 6N, for all the rivalry, isn't a reliable barometer for any side looking to climb up the rankings. (That is to say, start beating the SANZAR regularly.)

Having decent backs around Farrell would assuage most of his problems, but if we can get Farrell's reliability into someone like Ford or Burns, then it's a no-brainer. We won't do more than pop up into the top three briefly with him in his current state.

I still think our best bet is to put Youngs at scrum half

Although it seems our main problems are from IC outwards I don't think we want to start tearing it to pieces we just need a couple of changes the pack can already mix it with the best in the world

 

[Patchey]

I still think our best bet is to put Youngs at scrum half

Although it seems our main problems are from IC outwards I don't think we want to start tearing it to pieces we just need a couple of changes the pack can already mix it with the best in the world

*Endless box kicks to nowhere*