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[2013 EOYT] England

Yeah I do agree about Wood. Without him you lose a bit in the contact area, but I think you gain in the balance between 6 and 7 and you improve your pilfering ability.

Also, if Charlie Walker and Matt Hopper keep this sort of form up.... mind you, every single player in a quins shirt is looking like an international standard player the way quins are currently functioning as a unit!
 
With Croft still injured there's an injury-cover place in the EPS. Couldn't Lancaster demote Tom Johnson and promote Wallace?

Since Fraser's injury, he is the only open-side in the Saxons though. Then again, Johnson could be shoe-horned into that. (And ******** to the Saxons; they only play two games a year now.)
 
If you put Wallace in the Gloucester team I can guarantee you he would look worse than Kvesic.

Kvesic is the most wiley English breakdown proponent and has shown that this season, if you actually watch him carefully he always slows opposition ball down.
Saying he's been playing badly isn't really that accurate - he's been the best of a bad bunch along with Stooke.
But you can't really expect a back row to play well when they have to do the donkey work that the front five are failing to do.

He and Wallace are fairly similar in that they are fairly close to the straight up traditional 7.
Kev is quite a bit more powerful however and possibly faster too.
 
I'd have to really question the forwards' coaching at Glaws at the moment...

Don't think Kvesic is quicker than Wallace. He's also not as effective a jackal if you ask me. Throw in Fraser, who I'd consider the best defensively but the worst in attack, and there's an interesting battle down the years. I think one of them will prove to be a good international, at which point I think we lose one of Wood and Robshaw.
 
I sooooo want to post a random comment about Matt Banahan, but it's just too much now, it's just not funny at this point is it ?! :p
like, the stubborn, STUBBORN idiot.
"BUT...BAAANAHAN !?"
 
Kvesic is 1cm taller and 2kg heavier than Wallace - he is by all accounts a freak athlete.

I'd agree with Peat that although there are obvious issues with the quality of the Gloucester players, the coaching seems suspect too.
I disagree he's not as good a jackal, either way I wouldn't say there's much in it though.
 
ratsapprentice said:
Kvesic is 1cm taller and 2kg heavier than Wallace - he is by all accounts a freak athlete.
Click to expand...

Fair enough about his size, but I have to point out that the most powerful 7 over the ball I can think of is David Pocock who is only 16st himself compared to Kvesic's 16.5. Also, additional height doesn't necessarily help jackling ball because of the required body position!
 
Trying to assert a complete distinction between the two is a fools errand (as Gandalf would say!) as the two things are clearly linked - obviously I see now what you meant by power but I for one have been trying to compare Wallace and Kvsesic in terms of their relative 'strength over the ball' as I believe this is the most important thing for a 7 in addition to general wiliness and ability to slow down the breakdown.

I presume you mean therefore that Kvesic is more powerful in the loose and in defence? Which is all very well but surely the reason we're all chomping at the bit for a genuine openside flanker is to have that extra strong jackler in the side - if we just wanted a 7 who tackles his heart out and carries pretty well, why look any further than Robshaw, whose fate i would argue is that he will be underrated by most for eternity? In other words surely Wallace being stronger over the ball is a better point of difference bearing in mind what the current England set-up lacks? You can criticise Robshaw's jackling ability but very little else imo.

Just my thoughts anyway.

Saw an interesting point somewhere about Kvesic and the fact that in the 2011 junior world championship he played against Sam Cane for New Zealand; Since then, Cane has gone on to get 11 caps for New Zealand despite the stronger competition in the position, whereas our boy Kvesic has only got 2 caps, and those were whilst the first choices were taking a rest.

Don't get me wrong by the way, I'm a big fan of Kvesic generally but I don't see a great deal of evidence that he's much ahead of Wallace(if at all) and in any case it's not like good players cant' shine in a poor team; I don't think Kvesic would be using that in defence of his form either to be honest.
 
Strength and Power are clearly defined and certainly not the same thing - strength effects power it doesn't really work the other way around.
They are not interchangeable terms.

If you put Wallace and Kvesic in the same team, I think the only big difference would be their physical presence.
I rate them as being very similar otherwise, with Wallace maybe being a slightly better footballer.

We'll have to agree to disagree about their ability over the ball for now...
To me it looks like Matt is consciously not competing for the ball as much because his team are always on the back foot, he needs to be available to make tackles.
At the beginning of the season he was competing far more than he is now.

I think you are underestimating how poor Gloucester as a team have been this season.
Yes you can stand out in a poor team... but that is very hard to do for a whole season!
 
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