[2013 EOYT] England

[michaelbolton]

I'm struggling to think of any others, to be honest :huh: Well, there's the young guy at Saints whose name completely evades me - one of the Waller's perhaps? Or is it Mercey?
There's Paul Doran-Jones, but he's not at international standard either.

Sinkler got taken apart by Ross Harrison on Saturday, so he's a way off.

Tom Mercey is the Saints guy

 

[Peat]

Really? Why are they numbered 4 and 5 if they line up at 5 and 4 in the scrum?

Dunno, but any fool knows 4 is the tighthead lock and 5 the loosehead. Well, apart from Olyy.

As for tightheads - Rupert Harden was making Saxons squads not so long ago. That's where we are. Nowhere.

Long term, it should be ok - Thomas is promising for his age, there's been a lot of crap written. Ready now? Probably not. Collier, Knight, Brookes, Sinckler... all of these guys could come good. Swainston did well last year for Wasps, Cooper-Woolley is doing well for them this.

Not sure who thinks we're ok at loosehead though. Vunipola still takes quite a few scrum-bummings and Marler has an awful lot to prove. After them, Mullan and Wood haven't exactly spread the good news recently. After that - who?

 

[Patchey]

Corbs is out of the Aus game according to Planet Rugby

 

[Wasps For Life]

I think swainston is an all right prop not brilliant but consistent, better than Thomas for sure.
Mullan is not having the best start to the season but did well yesterday against mulipola

 

[Patchey]

Dunno, but any fool knows 4 is the tighthead lock and 5 the loosehead. Well, apart from Olyy.

As for tightheads - Rupert Harden was making Saxons squads not so long ago. That's where we are. Nowhere.

Long term, it should be ok - Thomas is promising for his age, there's been a lot of crap written. Ready now? Probably not. Collier, Knight, Brookes, Sinckler... all of these guys could come good. Swainston did well last year for Wasps, Cooper-Woolley is doing well for them this.

Not sure who thinks we're ok at loosehead though. Vunipola still takes quite a few scrum-bummings and Marler has an awful lot to prove. After them, Mullan and Wood haven't exactly spread the good news recently. After that - who?

I probably should have said we were doing much better on that side. While losing Corbs is a blow (would be for any team mind you) I'm much happier with the idea of having Mako and Marler as his back ups than having only Wilson/Cole as good options on the other side.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not sure who thinks we're ok at loosehead though. Vunipola still takes quite a few scrum-bummings and Marler has an awful lot to prove. After them, Mullan and Wood haven't exactly spread the good news recently. After that - who?

I know I just sound like a one-eyed loon, but I genuinely think Ross Harrison has what it takes. Already scrummaging at premiership standard at barely 21: Held his own last year at 19/20, and has grown since then (literally, and skill-wise). He's a strong carrier and great at the breakdown too.
Can't remember if I said it here or in an Aviva thread, but I think he'll be better than Henry down the line.

 

[Peat]

I probably should have said we were doing much better on that side. While losing Corbs is a blow (would be for any team mind you) I'm much happier with the idea of having Mako and Marler as his back ups than having only Wilson/Cole as good options on the other side.

Put simply - I am unconvinced that Mako and Fightin' Joe are good options.

 

[Wasps For Life]

Is he under 20's?

 

[michaelbolton]

As for tightheads - Rupert Harden was making Saxons squads not so long ago. That's where we are. Nowhere.

Long term, it should be ok - Thomas is promising for his age, there's been a lot of crap written. Ready now? Probably not. Collier, Knight, Brookes, Sinckler... all of these guys could come good. Swainston did well last year for Wasps, Cooper-Woolley is doing well for them this.

Quite a few young talents and reasonably spread out but none of them proved and definitely not International standard, Balmain at Tigers, Sinckler and Collier at Quins, Thomas at Sale (is Harrison LH or TH?), Swainston and Cooper-Wooley (thought he was Welsh??), Knight at Glos, Brookes and Wilson at Falcons. I could probably do that for looseheads too tbf

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Is he under 20's?

He was was last year ago.

Used to play both sides (played mostly at tighthead for England age-grade to accommodate Cowan-Dickie who was playing loosehead rather than hooker) but settled on loosehead now.

 

[Wasps For Life]

How often is he starting?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

About a 60:40 split Eifion Lewis-Roberts. If Eifion starts Ross will get about 30mins, if Ross starts he'll play 60+mins. Often, if Eifion is being rested, we'll have Croall on the bench and Ross will play the full 80.

 

[Wasps For Life]

Might be one to keep an eye on

 

[Peat]

Quite a few young talents and reasonably spread out but none of them proved and definitely not International standard, Balmain at Tigers, Sinckler and Collier at Quins, Thomas at Sale (is Harrison LH or TH?), Swainston and Cooper-Wooley (thought he was Welsh??), Knight at Glos, Brookes and Wilson at Falcons. I could probably do that for looseheads too tbf

Can you? I can't. With the exception of Harrison, most of our young looseheads are already in the international reckoning or have disappeared off the map. And yeah, Vunipola and Marler should improve with time, and hopefully they'll become finished articles, but if they don't we could be in trouble.

 

[michaelbolton]

I know I just sound like a one-eyed loon, but I genuinely think Ross Harrison has what it takes. Already scrummaging at premiership standard at barely 21: Held his own last year at 19/20, and has grown since then (literally, and skill-wise). He's a strong carrier and great at the breakdown too.
Can't remember if I said it here or in an Aviva thread, but I think he'll be better than Henry down the line.

He has looked quality tbf, and I remember being impressed with him at U20 level. Just a shame he is a loosehead, will be behind Corbs and probably Mako for a while

 

[Wasps For Life]

Is he Saxons material?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Is he Saxons material?

Not to be a... Fuddy. Duddy. But isn't the name 'England SAXONS' racially discriminatory. The NZ Maori certainly are both ITO name and selection criteria so could potentially be more offensive but still I find it interesting it hasn't come up yet. I know most NZers don't mind and I don't either personally (in both cases)- but I was just wondering..

 

[michaelbolton]

Can you? I can't. With the exception of Harrison, most of our young looseheads are already in the international reckoning or have disappeared off the map. And yeah, Vunipola and Marler should improve with time, and hopefully they'll become finished articles, but if they don't we could be in trouble.

I will try but might take me a while and depends what you count as young, Mako, Waller boys, Bower at Tigers (might be a TH cant remember), quite a few props in Tigers academy actually cant comment on whether they are any good but I needed help on this one. Not sure if Cowan Dickie still counts but him and his brother. Mullan, Catt at bath? I now admit that was more of a struggle but the first 3 or 4 choices are more encouarging

 

[Peat]

Not to be a... Fuddy. Duddy. But isn't the name 'England SAXONS' racially discriminatory. The NZ Maori certainly are both ITO name and selection criteria so could potentially be more offensive but still I find it interesting it hasn't come up yet. I know most NZers don't mind and I don't either personally (in both cases)- but I was just wondering..

Suppose you could view it that way, but given that it's mainly a historical term these days, I'd say its no more discriminatory than the Minnesota Vikings.

I will try but might take me a while and depends what you count as young, Mako, Waller boys, Bower at Tigers (might be a TH cant remember), quite a few props in Tigers academy actually cant comment on whether they are any good but I needed help on this one. Not sure if Cowan Dickie still counts but him and his brother. Mullan, Catt at bath? I now admit that was more of a struggle but the first 3 or 4 choices are more encouarging

Both Cowan-Dickies are hookers. The Waller boys I don't rate - don't think they'll make internationals. Mullan, maybe, I like him but he hasn't made the start to his Wasps career people would have wanted. Decent shout on Nathan Catt though, had forgot him. But he's a fair bit older than most of the tightheads I'd mentioned and tbh, kinda in the same position, which is a bit worrying.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Not to be a... Fuddy. Duddy. But isn't the name 'England SAXONS' racially discriminatory. The NZ Maori certainly are both ITO name and selection criteria so could potentially be more offensive but still I find it interesting it hasn't come up yet. I know most NZers don't mind and I don't either personally (in both cases)- but I was just wondering..

Not really.
Unless you find calling the England team "England" - which, as I'm sure you are aware essentially means "Land of the Angles".
Luckily the sort of nationalism we have in this country tends to ignore England's pagan history and focuses solely on it's mythical Christian history (St. George and all that ********).
So we are free to use the "Saxons" name without any controversy.