[2013 EOYT] England

[iINDOMINUSxx]

4. Attwood
5. Parling
6. Launchbury
7. Wood
8. Morgan/Vunipola

19. Robshaw
20. Kvesic/Morgan/Vunipola

Possibly? I think it would be quite nicely balanced. Personally, I'd have Vunipola to start and Kvesic on the bench, but there's some wiggle room here...

i think it should go like

4. attwood
5. parling
6. kvesic
7. wood
8. morgan

19 launchbury
20. vunipola

 

[j-dawg]

The reason Courtney 'late hit' Lawes doesnt make tight yards is because he is, truthfully, very light for such a tall lock at something around 16 stone. Simon Shaw was Englands last great enforcer (and last great lock in my opinion) and weighed in at around 20 stone! If England want to use Lawes, they should take his weight into account and make it clear to him what his role is. I'd personally have him running himself into the ground with a work rate out of this world using him as a link man and a tackle machine rather than face deep in the breakdown or fringes.

Having said that, I'm quite happy with Parling and Launchbury, although im interested in what Attwood can do.

 

[j'nuh]

Where did you get that Lawes was 16st from? RFU have him as 17.5 stone, his home page has him at 18 st, and wikipedia has him at 18.5 stone?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

He was certainly at lock today and with 20 tackles a try scoring pass, and some good takes in the line out this week (and four steals last week) I am not sure what you are saying in truth?

I probably didn't communicate well. I meant Lawes is more of a 5 than a 4 BUT he doesn't run the lineout like a 5 should so...

Lauchberry plays at 4 in the scrum and lineout at 4
Parling plays at 5 in the scrum and the lineout at 5
Attwood plays 4 in the scrum and 5 in the lineout
Lawes plays 5 in the scrum but 4 in the lineout - (C Day plays the reverse role at the saints)

So yes he is great around the park but until he starts running the saints lineout he won't be considered a 5 for England and until he starts scrumming at 4 for the saints then he shouldn't be considered for a 4 role for England.

Jack of all trades master of none (apart form big hits).

Great player but needs to choose what he is and stick to it.

 

[Peat]

The paragraph that sums all this up as idiocy is this one;



Ummm, Geech? Where did Exeter come from?

If Exeter had never been in a position to get promoted, Baxter would have probably ended up elsewhere and done his magic there. As it is, Geech's idea of reviewing it every five years would have probably seen Exeter get in.

Personally, I can see a lot of upsides to getting rid of relegation. I certainly don't think talking about it is idiotic. And sure, while I can see downsides as well, the main one I can see is competition for competition's sake, and I think that's not a good reason to do anything by itself.

 

[ratsapprentice]

On Lawes:

- The RFU's listing of 111kg (17.4 stone) seems about right to me.
Regardless of his actual weight he is very ropey and powerful but not all that strong.
Which is why he can jump very high and hit very hard - but not be a force in the scrum/maul.

- His selection should only happen if one of these things happen:
--- He is considered to be better than Launchbury.
--- Launchbury is moved to Blindside, and Lawes replaces him as one of the Locks.
--- Attwood is not considered due to injury.

Possible side:

1. Vunipola
2. Youngs
3. Wilson
4. Launchbury
5. Parling
6. Robshaw
7. Kvesic
8. Vunipola
9. Care
10. Farrell
11. Yarde
12. Twelvetrees
13. Trinder/Tomkins
14. Wade
15. Foden/Brown

16. Hartley
17. Marler
18. Cole
19. Attwood
20. Wood
21. Dickson
22. Burns
23. Eastmond

 

[Peat]

I think Lawes' tight impact is better than you give it credit for - but I'm still wary of him, I agree he seems to fall between the two stools and more importantly, I can't remember when he last produced for England. I mean, Launchbury is also between two stools, but he performs. Lawes hasn't put it together and arguably doesn't really have the brain for heads-up rugby.

All of that said - its a pretty good day when you can just shrug and go "Lawes, meh, if there's an injury I guess".

 

[ratsapprentice]

more importantly, I can't remember when he last produced for England. I mean, Launchbury is also between two stools, but he performs. Lawes hasn't put it together and arguably doesn't really have the brain for heads-up rugby.

My thoughts exactly.

Also of note is the Tigers' scrum - they are intent on not hooking.

They apparently only won 55% of their own scrums against Treviso according to the stats!?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...aches-for-England-coach-Stuart-Lancaster.html

Good article by Brian Moore. He makes a good point that Young is not hooking the ball for Leicester because the pack are just driving over the ball. Hartley for Northampton is hooking the ball; so Hartley has to start for England if Tom Youngs does not know how to hook the ball still.

 

[j-dawg]

Where did you get that Lawes was 16st from? RFU have him as 17.5 stone, his home page has him at 18 st, and wikipedia has him at 18.5 stone?

I swear it came up on the Northhampton game yesterday as 16 stone something? I may be wrong on this, but he is a natural ectomorph body type, which doesn't bode well for tight situations like scrums, mauls etc.

 

[Big Ewis]

hey just a quick question: does everyone in the UK understand the "stone" measuring system ? Like, does absolutely everyone have a notion of the 'stone' unit ?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Yes.

Usually only in relation to weighing of people though... you wouldnt measure a car in stone, for example.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yes.

Usually only in relation to weighing of people though... you wouldnt measure a car in stone, for example.

But I would argue that it is even more of a ****ty unit of measurement for people since it does not indicate variance as well as the standard kg; for example someone saying they weigh between 16 and 17 stone is a lot less accurate than someone saying they weigh between 103 and 106kgs for example (and note that I was generous and added an extra 2kgs in the variable there). And just the mere fact that you are using different units of measurement for different objects.. it is just not efficient!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I was going to ask anyone who'd seen the game to comment on whether Lawes really was as good as people have said but it sounds like I have my answer already. BBC sport busy jacking off over him. In fact I'm completely fed up with bbc sport news pages - one page the other day was "Northampton 'must beat ospreys'". Completely useless, everyone knows you literally have to win your home games in the heineken cup to have any chance of getting through...

Anyway, with regards to the lock situation can anyone comment on Parling's form of late?
Launchbury is in the form of his life to be honest, and I really can't see him being dislodged.

On lawes, I would say that his carrying has appeared to be better than last season, which could really count in his favour.

Anyway, I'm gutted we don't get another crack at South Africa this autumn.Without that game, success or failure hinges on the Australia game, bearing in mind that we have no chance of beating the All Blacks* and that we should certainly be beating Argentina at home. So without a fourth game, the margins between a successful or an unsuccessful autumn seem very fine indeed. Hansen has said that his New Zealand are 'beatable', which is news to me.

*I know we won last year but they're in top form and we're going to be without tuilagi and corbisiero...

 

[Chikwa]

I was going to ask anyone who'd seen the game to comment on whether Lawes really was as good as people have said but it sounds like I have my answer already. BBC sport busy jacking off over him. In fact I'm completely fed up with bbc sport news pages - one page the other day was "Northampton 'must beat ospreys'". Completely useless, everyone knows you literally have to win your home games in the heineken cup to have any chance of getting through...

Anyway, with regards to the lock situation can anyone comment on Parling's form of late?
Launchbury is in the form of his life to be honest, and I really can't see him being dislodged.

On lawes, I would say that his carrying has appeared to be better than last season, which could really count in his favour.

Anyway, I'm gutted we don't get another crack at South Africa this autumn.Without that game, success or failure hinges on the Australia game, bearing in mind that we have no chance of beating the All Blacks* and that we should certainly be beating Argentina at home. So without a fourth game, the margins between a successful or an unsuccessful autumn seem very fine indeed. Hansen has said that his New Zealand are 'beatable', which is news to me.

*I know we won last year but they're in top form and we're going to be without tuilagi and corbisiero...

Yes indeed Tuilagi was a menace to the AB's.He "bullied Ma A Nonu" who I am sure was looking for a rematch.You ' ll more than likely lose to the AB's and the Wallabies game will be a close game that may go either way.How I wish for the sake of the game of rugby a northern hemisphere team becomes a real challenge to southern dominance!

 

[j-dawg]

Tuilagi and Corbisiero out for all three tests?

 

[ratsapprentice]

But I would argue that it is even more of a ****ty unit of measurement for people since it does not indicate variance as well as the standard kg; for example someone saying they weigh between 16 and 17 stone is a lot less accurate than someone saying they weigh between 103 and 106kgs for example (and note that I was generous and added an extra 2kgs in the variable there). And just the mere fact that you are using different units of measurement for different objects.. it is just not efficient!

Bear in mind it's just an interval of 14lbs and is used as such - in the same way we use feet and inches.
It's actually quite a good unit when used to weigh people - 14lbs is a fairly comprehensive interval in this context.
Most people don't actually weight themselves every week, or even every year!
So knowing that you weight around 13 stone is actually better for the "man on the street" than telling people you weight 85kg; whenyou could have fluctuated quite drastically.

That's the measurement we use though - I've never had any issues with it, but then again I am fairly familiar with lbs, stone and kg so I can compare them without much effort.

Lawes played well. The only things he does better than Launchbury are stealing opposition ball and tackling.
He is probably one of the best technical tacklers in the sport - which is doubly impressive considering how long-levered he is.
But that was true before - and he didn't force his way into the team.
Although his lineout work on his own team's ball is not noteworthy - he has become quite adept at stealing opposition ball.
This talent has been strong but fleeting - only really happening every fourth or fifth game.

In ball carrying, passing, work-rate, reading of the game and most importantly rucking - it's advantage to Launchbury.

Leicester won 10 and lost 9 of their own lineouts against Treviso according to the stats.
Parling apparently won 4 and stole 1.
I only watched the first 20 or so minutes of the match so can't be much more helpful than that.
The scrum didn't seem to do much better either.

Parling is, no-doubt, a good lineout operator.
The trouble is, and this is a recurring theme with England players, that he's been elevated to near-Matfield like status by some.
When in reality he's just good.

 

[Tony Manx]

But I would argue that it is even more of a ****ty unit of measurement for people since it does not indicate variance as well as the standard kg; for example someone saying they weigh between 16 and 17 stone is a lot less accurate than someone saying they weigh between 103 and 106kgs for example (and note that I was generous and added an extra 2kgs in the variable there). And just the mere fact that you are using different units of measurement for different objects.. it is just not efficient!

These Jonny Foreigners and their funny ways.......leave us alone with our imperial measurements!!!!

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Tuilagi and Corbisiero out for all three tests?

Tuilagi is out of all three tests; he tore his peck muscle. Corbisiero had his knee drained of fluid and has 2 weeks of rehab. Hopefully he will be fit for the 1st test v Australia.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Bear in mind it's just an interval of 14lbs and is used as such - in the same way we use feet and inches.
It's actually quite a good unit when used to weigh people - 14lbs is a fairly comprehensive interval in this context.
Most people don't actually weight themselves every week, or even every year!
So knowing that you weight around 13 stone is actually better for the "man on the street" than telling people you weight 85kg; whenyou could have fluctuated quite drastically.

That's the measurement we use though - I've never had any issues with it, but then again I am fairly familiar with lbs, stone and kg so I can compare them without much effort.

Well, sure, you can use what you want of course. It's just that on an international forum.. well at times it feels like you (non-metric users) are running an inside joke or something to that effect at our (the sane world... well at least in terms of units of measurement, SA is a crazy place in most other areas of life) expense .