2013 British and Irish Lions

[Draggs]

Two Dragons
(Dan is still one of us...)

I have to say the player I am most pleased for is Ian Evans. What a player, I bet he never imagined this 2/3 years ago.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

A decent squad I'd change it as follows:

Scott-Davies
Zebo-Maitland
Brown-Lydiate
Farrell-Biggar + Madigan
Murray - Laidlaw
Hartley - Best

My test side:

15. Halfpenny
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. Roberts
11. North
10. Sexton
9. Youngs
8. Heaslip
7. Warburton
6. SOB
4. Parling
5. Jones
3. Jones
2. Hibbard
1. Healy

16. Youngs 17. Jenkins 18. Cole 19. POC 20. Tipuric 21. Phillips 22. Farrell 23. Hogg

 

[big ginger 8]

Can I ask why people are shocked at the Rory Best exclusion. He's been terrible the last few months. As in alot of this team is picked in my opinion on reputation. Irish players alone:
Bowe on what 2/3 games ???
Paulie same as Bowe ???
Kearney and Heaslip aren't on form
Murray and SOB have had decent seasons but are lucky as calls were flip of coin.
Healy and Sexton deserved spots.

Bowe on 2 games 2 tries and an assist but mainly previous form and has shown he can get up to speed quickly and produces on the big stage. Also an excellent guy to have on tour same with POC.

As usual you're exaggerating Best hasn't been terrible and has actually had a few good games. Also better than Hartley.

Heaslip won man of the match in his last game of course he's on form, Kearney's not at his best but with three fullbacks he's the right choice also not bad. I don't understand why so many munster fans seem to be so quick to condemn these two.

O'Brien was probably Ireland's player of the 6N and plays across the backrow.



Anyway my main points of small annoyance.

Maitland-he's a New Zealander and not one who's better or in better form than indigenous players.

Davies-we already have two 13's and I'm not a fan of his mainly because of his lack of a passing game. Would have preferred someone like Beck, Scott or 36. Could prove me wrong.

Murray-too similar to Philips and I'd take Laidlaw as we need someone a third person who can actually play 10.

Croft AND Lydiate-I'd have no problem with picking one but both is a bit worrying for me. They're just both back from injury and Lydiate hasn't played any really tough games. Hopefully it's only a minor worry, tough on Robshaw.

Gray-been poor this season and other locks have been better.

Hartley-not a fan of him think Best would bring more.

Stevens-just him being there maybe Ross would be better but neither would be near the team.

Warburton as captain-he's a good captain I'm sure but he's not guaranteed a spot. Probably currently wouldn't have him in my 23.


Anyway can't wait for it now!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm interested to see what form Jenkins brings into the tour - would 100% start him vs Baabaas to assess.
He was back to his best by the end of the Six Nations, but hasn't shown that for Toulon since - i.e. vs Saracens; Nieto had him under all sorts of pressure and he gave a few penalties away - Smit could've played a part in this as well though as he's a better scrummager than Brits.
Nieto is better than Stevens as well. Stevens was absolutely ruined by Sheridan, giving a penalty away at pretty much every scrum....

 

[munstermuffin]

BG8 I'm not saying Bowe and POC played poor but a large part of there selection is reputation. Heaslip was man of match last weekend but still poor this season and Rory Best is 3rd worst hooker who's played 7 games or more between all 3 leagues with regards darts. No more needed to be said.

 

[Tony Manx]

Heyho the Lions selection....why should we expect any skill in choosing the right squad from someone like Gatland................all the safe choices of "names" rather than "in form" players being picked by a guy who can say when they lose......."I did not take chances and did not expect that to happen"!

Bowe and O'connell...great players but they have hardly played.......

Heaslip one decent game against a crappy Biarritz overcomes a thoroughly useless 6N.....

Roberts and Davies picked as centres when only Davies had anything to hold his head up about in the 6N..... wil not say anyting about the God that is BOD etc etc etc

Anyway, job done so f..... it. Lets get behind them and hope Australia are shaking in their boots!!

 

[psychic duck]

I'm interested to see what form Jenkins brings into the tour - would 100% start him vs Baabaas to assess.
He was back to his best by the end of the Six Nations, but hasn't shown that for Toulon since - i.e. vs Saracens; Nieto had him under all sorts of pressure and he gave a few penalties away - Smit could've played a part in this as well though as he's a better scrummager than Brits.
Nieto is better than Stevens as well. Stevens was absolutely ruined by Sheridan, giving a penalty away at pretty much every scrum....

Perhaps the player at #3 for Wales would have something to do with the difference? Seeing as Jenkins keeps struggling at scrums at either the Blues or Toulon and also got demolished by the Johnston brothers last November (all the latter scrums in the video). Again just look at who was missing ... seems to be a theme. Ii also think Gethin got a bit lucky in the England game with the ref favouring him, Paul James improved it when he came on.

The Aussies will be happy if they line up against Jenkins and Stevens that's for sure. Especially since Gethin was pretty poor out there last June as well.

<iframe width="400" height="225" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RjlXlcnghf4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

 

[dullonien]

Davies-we already have two 13's and I'm not a fan of his mainly because of his lack of a passing game. Would have preferred someone like Beck, Scott or 36. Could prove me wrong.

The problem with Davies is that he's so bloody good at everything else. He seems to always score a try or two out of nowhere, he also had the best defensive stats of any 6 nations centre, and he has a decent boot on him when needed. Just looking at the Scarlets last game against the Blues, he was the difference between the two teams, scoring two try's. I do agree in general though, his passing really isn't up to Lions standard, but if in the process he scores the match winning try it doesn't really matter. My opinion of him really does sway.

 

[big ginger 8]

BG8 I'm not saying Bowe and POC played poor but a large part of there selection is reputation. Heaslip was man of match last weekend but still poor this season and Rory Best is 3rd worst hooker who's played 7 games or more between all 3 leagues with regards darts. No more needed to be said.

Heaslip has been excellent this season it's people who want there number 8s to be making blockbusting runs that think he's been awful. There's a reason he's been nominated for ERC player of the year.

Do you actually have these stats now MM? Also the lineout is not just down to throwing. Best has been very unlucky with the situations regarding Ulster's and Ireland's lineouts. This has heaped pressure on him not helping the throwing. He wouldn't have the same problems with the Lions.

 

[big ginger 8]

The problem with Davies is that he's so bloody good at everything else. He seems to always score a try or two out of nowhere, he also had the best defensive stats of any 6 nations centre, and he has a decent boot on him when needed. Just looking at the Scarlets last game against the Blues, he was the difference between the two teams, scoring two try's. I do agree in general though, his passing really isn't up to Lions standard, but if in the process he scores the match winning try it doesn't really matter. My opinion of him really does sway.

Yeah that's why I put in the end bit. He's pretty frustrating in the way he can change your opinion.

Actually with three 13's and only one 12 obviously one of the 13's will play 12, all have attributes suited for it. Will one be put there who will be put there or will all three be trialled there?

 

[psychic duck]

Heaslip has been excellent this season it's people who want there number 8s to be making blockbusting runs that think he's been awful. There's a reason he's been nominated for ERC player of the year.

Do you actually have these stats now MM? Also the lineout is not just down to throwing. Best has been very unlucky with the situations regarding Ulster's and Ireland's lineouts. This has heaped pressure on him not helping the throwing. He wouldn't have the same problems with the Lions.

"Excellent" is a bit of an exaggeration tbh. What exactly did he do in the 6 Nations? All I noticed was him dropping the ball numerous times against England. Goodness knows how he got to be ERC nominated after just one match with the team 11th in the Top 14.

I don't know how you can say Best "wouldn't have problems with the Lions" when he has been on pretty dire form in 2013.

 

[dullonien]

Yeah that's why I put in the end bit. He's pretty frustrating in the way he can change your opinion.

Actually with three 13's and only one 12 obviously one of the 13's will play 12, all have attributes suited for it. Will one be put there who will be put there or will all three be trialled there?

Davies play's at 12 for the Scarlets, but then there's his passing issues again.

 

[big ginger 8]

"Excellent" is a bit of an exaggeration tbh. What exactly did he do in the 6 Nations? All I noticed was him dropping the ball numerous times against England. Goodness knows how he got to be ERC nominated after just one match with the team 11th in the Top 14.

I don't know how you can say Best "wouldn't have problems with the Lions" when he has been on pretty dire form in 2013.

Yes one game of course that's why he was nominated. He was the only player to make 60+ tackles in the group matches and not miss any and that in a group with Clermont. Of course if you're only watching with a passing interest in particular players. Heaslip isn't in general a "highlight reel" player. He does whatever's asked of him that's why when O'Brien was out he suddenly made the big carrying performance. In a backrow with O'Brien and O'Mahony he had to do a lot of work. Buckets of tackles, hard carries and loads of rucks. He also seems to make a big difference to mauls if he's in them. Not the sort of stuff you notice without watching for it.

I mean the problems apart from throwing regarding the lineout. For Ulster his starting locks and lineout caller both missed large chunks of the season with inexperienced backs ups. With Ireland we only had one jumper who was 6'6", Ryan. Ryan one the most ball of any jumper in the 6N if I'm not mistaken. This gets ****ing obvious allied with very slow movement it's very detrimental. Factors such as these heaped needless added pressure on him. Ask any hooker and they'll tell you it's very difficult to operate with this. These problems are unlikely to occur with the Lions. I'd say his throwing would be better without these pressures. Also his game around the pitch has been fine and he's outplayed Hartley, twice this season.

 

[TNT88]

Chuck Tuilagi on the wing. The Lions have so many good centres, Tuilagi is more one dimensional (good at what he does though).

 

[Peat]

With the Lions, Best wouldn't be throwing to lineouts completely decimated of jumpers time and time again. I can't really complain about him not going, but the lineout liabilities have been far from all his own fault and yeah, he'd have probably been fine down under. Hartley? Dear gods.

Heaslip's been good for Leinster. He's been chronically misused for Ireland. Excellent is an exaggeration though.

Davies is a useful player but similar enough to Tuilagi in a lot of ways and likely tactical use that I'd question the wisdom of both pretty heavily, particularly when it excludes playmaking 12s... although the options kinda fell away at the last on that one.

 

[munstermuffin]

Heaslip has been excellent this season it's people who want there number 8s to be making blockbusting runs that think he's been awful. There's a reason he's been nominated for ERC player of the year.

Do you actually have these stats now MM? Also the lineout is not just down to throwing. Best has been very unlucky with the situations regarding Ulster's and Ireland's lineouts. This has heaped pressure on him not helping the throwing. He wouldn't have the same problems with the Lions.

As I said it just my opinion I don't think Heaslip deserved a spot. Read the stats about Rory Best's lineout online during week so don't have them and Im not saying Best is a poor player or that the lineout is 100% his fault just simply that this may have cost him.

As for Heaslip been nominated for ERC Player of Year - Zebo Brown Armitage Launchbury and Hodgson were nominated and not touring so that point is irrelevant. Farrel was up for World Player of year last year which was irrelevant too.
I think personally lads like Robshaw, Wood and Brown are extremely unlucky as they've been on form same can be said for Launchbury and maybe Donnacha Ryan left out for Gray.

 

[big ginger 8]

As I said it just my opinion I don't think Heaslip deserved a spot. Read the stats about Rory Best's lineout online during week so don't have them and Im not saying Best is a poor player or that the lineout is 100% his fault just simply that this may have cost him.

As for Heaslip been nominated for ERC Player of Year - Zebo Brown Armitage Launchbury and Hodgson were nominated and not touring so that point is irrelevant. Farrel was up for World Player of year last year which was irrelevant too.
I think personally lads like Robshaw, Wood and Brown are extremely unlucky as they've been on form same can be said for Launchbury and maybe Donnacha Ryan left out for Gray.

It is relevant though. You said he was poor this season I was putting it forward as evidence that he hasn't been poor this season.

Also this is the final shortlist:

1. Julien Bonnaire
2. Jamie Heaslip
3. Wesley Fofana
4. Sitiveni Sivivatu
5. Jonny Wilkinson

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

The shittest team in the Rabo (not including Zebre since they're a new team) have more players on the Lions than the team who is in first place. Love it.

Matt Stevens, lmfao. Ross is isnt great but he's a damn better scrummager than Stevens. How many England caps does he have?
Rory Bests call is understandable - but you've got to remember who he's been throwing to, with O'Connell and Muller being injured - and now he'd be throwing to Gray / O'Connell / Parling / Jones. IMO he's the best hooker around the park like Ive said in the past, with the choke tackle and the breakdown especially.

Gilroy or Zebo should be ahead of Maitland - he's only bloody Scottish qualified this year, doesn't look good, especially when we have better home grown talent.

1: Jenkins
2: Hibbard / Hartley / Youngs
3: Jones
4: O'Connell
5: Parling
6: O'Brien
7: Warburton
8: Faletau
9: Phillips
10: Sexton
11: North
12: Roberts
13: O'Driscoll
14: Bowe
15: Halfpenny

Jenkins + Jones to tire the front row in the scrum, Healy + Cole on to add some pace and ball carrying. Same with Tipuric to bring some more pace.
Tuilagi might be more effective at around the 40-60 minute mark against slightly tired Aussies - especially if we want to keep O'Driscoll fit for the next test.

I can't decide on hooker, they all aren't great to be honest.

 

[coonor]

Still think Australia will be licking their licks at the thought of the lineout. It seems that lineout throwing is an aspect that has really dropped in terms of hooker qualities and strength around the park and at the breakdown has become a greater concer for some.

The selection of Maitland is simply unfounded, while the selection of both Croft and Lydiate is narrow minded. Murray is very lucky that he fits Gatlands style of "power".

 

[Tony Manx]

1. Julien Bonnaire
2. Jamie Heaslip
3. Wesley Fofana
4. Sitiveni Sivivatu
5. Jonny Wilkinson

1. Sitiveni Sivivatu
2. Julien Bonnaire
3. Wesley Fofana
4. Jonny Wilkinson
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.



225. Jamie Heaslip