2013 British and Irish Lions

[nickdnz]

Croft and Stevens suprise me. Surely Morgan/Robshaw would be a considerably better pick than Croft - while I'd take Alex Corbisiero or Paul James over Stevens...

Most disappointed Christian Wade won't be there. Overall I don't think this Lions team is amazing. Certainly beatable.

 

[Feicarsinn]

The left at home team:

15) Foden
14) Visser
13) Hook
12) Twelvetrees
11) Zebo
10) Wilkinson
9) Laidlaw
8) Morgan
7) Robshaw
6) Ferris
5) Launchbury
4) Ryan
3) Ross
2) Strauss
1) Jenkins

Any chance?

 

[irelandfan123]

The left at home team:

15) Foden
14) Visser
13) Hook
12) Twelvetrees
11) Zebo
10) Wilkinson
9) Laidlaw
8) Morgan
7) Robshaw
6) Ferris
5) Launchbury
4) Ryan
3) Ross
2) Strauss
1) Jenkins

Any chance?

Jenkins went
Throw Sheridan in there

 

[g6mcg]

Overall, a bit disappointed. I feel like Gatland has picked players on the back of previous form. Croft, Lydiate, Gray...neither of the first two have been back long enough to really merit automatic selection, and Gray has been meh altogether as far as I've seen.

Croft is surely a tactical choice, in that he offers something different, and I suppose the same could be said for Gray. Lydiate is the most glaring one, not that he isn't a fine flanker, but he's been out injured, and from what I understand hasn't shown much since returning. That may well be due to fitness, but does it make sense to take someone in the hope they regain match fitness when there are two other very good blindsides (Brown and Robshaw)?

 

[irelandfan123]

Lions tour manager Andy Irvine has explained that Jonny Wilkinson felt he wasn't physically up for it, which may explain his non-selection.

"The truth is Jonny wasn't up for it. He ruled himself out,"Irvine told BBC Radio 5 live.

"He told Warren that he feels his body isn't in the right shape to complete a tour like this. I admire his honesty and integrity."

Wilkinson may still be available should he be required as a replacement later on.

Seen this on rugby dump

 

[dullonien]

Bit surprised with the squad tbh. I wouldn't have picked any of the following:

- Sean Maitland. Just don't like the fact that in less than a year he's moved to Scotland and now is on a Lions tour.
- Owen Farrell. Average player. Even if Wilkinson ruled himself out, I'd prefer Biggar.
- Conor Murray. Decent player, but in the same mould as Phillips, but not as good.
- Matt Stevens. Poor player imo, prone to giving away stupid penalties.
- Dylan Hartley. I'd have Best and Owens ahead of him. Suppose he offers a stable lineout if the other two capitulate in this area.
- Richie Gray. Off form.
- Tom Croft. In such a competitive position, not sure he's shown enough. He may be going well for Leicester, but he was shown up against Wales.
- Dan Lydiate. Lack of matchtime after injury.

Also, Jenkins over Sheridan is a disgrace.

I think the only disgrace is Toulon picking Sheridan ahead of Jenkins. Toulon obviously pick automatically on strength, hence Russow over Armitage on the weekend. Jenkins showed in the latter half of the 6 nations that he's still a class above.

while I'd take Alex Corbisiero or Paul James over Stevens...

I'd guess Stevens has been taken as a tighthead. Corbisiero is exclusively a looshead, while James should only be considered a looshead for the lions.

 

[munstermuffin]

What does Richie Gray actually add he had a good 6 Nations last year and still living majorly off that hype.
My non touring XV.
15. Foden
14. Visser
13. Barritt
12. Twelvetrees
11. Zebo
10. Wilkinson Madigan possibly Burns/Flood take pick
9. Care
1. Sheridan (in form of his life)
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. Hines/Launchbury
6. O'Mahony
7. Armitage
8. Morgan

All good enough in my eyes add in Laidlaw, Robshaw, D'Arcy (had good season), Jenkins and few others and not bringing French players then leave Phillips at home like ok he won't be in playoffs but why punish lads doing well at club

 

[g6mcg]

Rumours Hogg is being considered as the reserve 10. The squad does look somewhat imbalanced - very well covered at 15 (Maitland), and 13 (Hogg, Bowe, North), but lacking around 10/12. Does make you wonder if it would have been worth bringing Hook/Madigan/Twelvetrees at the expense of one of the 15s.

 

[munstermuffin]

Was said by 1 of coaches Hogg selection was swung by his ability to cover 10

 

[psychic duck]

I think the only disgrace is Toulon picking Sheridan ahead of Jenkins. Toulon obviously pick automatically on strength, hence Russow over Armitage on the weekend. Jenkins showed in the latter half of the 6 nations that he's still a class above.

No offence dullonien, but this is rubbish. Sheridan has been far better than Jenkins in Toulon colours, so you can't blame Toulon for picking him ahead of Gethin. Sheridan and the Toulon scrum was giving the Lions tourist props trouble, then Gethin came on and gave away penalties. Also Armitage has been in the Toulon lineup all season in big games as well, you can hardly judge that on one game. Your comment is a big disservice to Sheridan and big overestimation of Jenkins.

Contrary to what some say Jenkins has had chances at Toulon and has been frankly poor and been really struggling in the scrum. The scrum he was involved with last season with the Cardiff Blues also got regularly mullered every match, and now he has Hayman aside and Botha behind so there is no excuse. His performances have been consistently poor for Toulon, and you can't criticise and call it "a disgrace" that Toulon are picking the player who is not getting shoved about by Cencus Johnston or Giorgi Jgenti and others. He also struggled in November and to be honest, other than the Italy match, I don't think he was all that great in the 6 Nations either. Paul James was extremely unlucky not to get picked ahead in the 6 Nations.

 

[Thingimubob]

Was said by 1 of coaches Hogg selection was swung by his ability to cover 10

Since when can Hogg cover 10? :huh: Has he ever played a pro game there, let alone an international? I suppose at a pinch both him and Halfpenny could become emergency 10s (Halfpenny steps into the 10 role a lot for both the Blues and Wales, and of course had an excellent 10 min spell there vs England in 2012 when Priestland was in the bin) however that can only be a stop gap measure if injuries get dire during a match.

Also @ psychic - I dunno, I agree with dull Admittedly I haven't seen a huge amount of toulon playing this season, but definitely remember Sheridan having more problems vs the Blues when he came on than Jenkins did. And against Scott Andrews of all people... Not saying that it all should be based on that alone obviously, but way Ive always seen it is Sheridan is probably the stronger scrummager, but Gethin offers more in the loose, and maybe Toulon prefer to have Sheridans style than Jenkins

 

[munstermuffin]

That's who I meant above when I said Jenkins in left out list. Paul James. It rare I agree with Duck but he 100% right there. And did I read Armitage had slight injury and that was why he was on bench in HEC semi. The French really rate him over there and he's consistently up there with Toulons fans as contender for player of year

 

[munstermuffin]

Since when can Hogg cover 10? :huh: Has he ever played a pro game there, let alone an international? I suppose at a pinch both him and Halfpenny could become emergency 10s (Halfpenny steps into the 10 role a lot for both the Blues and Wales, and of course had an excellent 10 min spell there vs England in 2012 when Priestland was in the bin) however that can only be a stop gap measure if injuries get dire during a match.

Agreed I thought 13 and out was his positions. But that's what was said and been honest apart from Sexton the rest of them aren't great tactically kicking which is a worry

 

[psychic duck]

That's who I meant above when I said Jenkins in left out list. Paul James. It rare I agree with Duck but he 100% right there. And did I read Armitage had slight injury and that was why he was on bench in HEC semi. The French really rate him over there and he's consistently up there with Toulons fans as contender for player of year

Exactly. He was in the contenders for Top 14 player of the year last season and had played virtually every big match up to that point and if you have the back row options Toulon have you are going to rotate anyway. I wouldn't read too much into one match, after all their strategy hardly didn't work anyway.

 

[g6mcg]

Agreed I thought 13 and out was his positions. But that's what was said and been honest apart from Sexton the rest of them aren't great tactically kicking which is a worry

I think he may have played age-grade rugby at ten, but pretty certain he hasn't for Glasgow. Didn't taking two tens in 2009 end with Hook being called up to replace a back three injury?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hmmmmmmmm.
Not terrible, not brilliant.
Changes I'd make:
]Sean Maitland --> Simon Zebo (or if we're wanting a Scot then Tim Visser)
Jonathan Davies --> James Hook
Ben Youngs/Conor Murray --> One of them for Laidlaw
Matt Stevens --> Mike Ross
Dylan Hartley/Tom Youngs --> One of them for Rory Best
Richie Gray --> Joe Launchbury
Tom Croft --> Kelly Brown or Tom Wood or Johnnie Beattie or Chris Robshaw

My test squad:

1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. Wyn-Jones
5. Parling
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton (C)
8. Heaslip
9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Tuilagi
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Halfpenny

Hartley, Healy, Cole, POC, O'Brien, Youngs, Farrell, Hogg

 

[SelimNiai]

Hmmmmmmmm.
Not terrible, not brilliant.
Changes I'd make:
]Sean Maitland --> Simon Zebo (or if we're wanting a Scot then Tim Visser)
Jonathan Davies --> James Hook
Ben Youngs/Conor Murray --> One of them for Laidlaw
Matt Stevens --> Mike Ross
Dylan Hartley/Tom Youngs --> One of them for Rory Best
Richie Gray --> Joe Launchbury
Tom Croft --> Kelly Brown or Tom Wood or Johnnie Beattie or Chris Robshaw

My test squad:

1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. Wyn-Jones
5. Parling
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton (C)
8. Heaslip
9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Tuilagi
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Halfpenny

Hartley, Healy, Cole, POC, O'Brien, Youngs, Farrell, Hogg

I agree with all of this.

 

[Jbobo]

- Sean Maitland. Just don't like the fact that in less than a year he's moved to Scotland and now is on a Lions tour.
- Conor Murray. Decent player, but in the same mould as Phillips, but not as good.
- Matt Stevens. Poor player imo, prone to giving away stupid penalties.
- Dylan Hartley. I'd have Best and Owens ahead of him. Suppose he offers a stable lineout if the other two capitulate in this area.
- Richie Gray. Off form.
- Tom Croft. In such a competitive position, not sure he's shown enough. He may be going well for Leicester, but he was shown up against Wales.
- Dan Lydiate. Lack of matchtime after injury.



I think the only disgrace is Toulon picking Sheridan ahead of Jenkins. Toulon obviously pick automatically on strength, hence Russow over Armitage on the weekend. Jenkins showed in the latter half of the 6 nations that he's still a class above..

Completely agree. I would have taken Care instead of Murray and Best, Owens or my Grandma instead of Hartley.

Jenkins is superior to Sheridan and that's why he was picked (plus he actually plays international rugby). I concede it is partly because of reputation, but if Sheridan was not in some good form at the moment, he would not even be on my radar to replace Jenkins.

My Test team at the moment:

1. Healy
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. Wyn-Jones
5. POC
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton (c)
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Roberts
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Halfpenny

Jenkins, Youngs, Cole, Evans, Tipuric, Youngs, Farrell, Hogg

 

[ratsapprentice]

Does anyone know if there are 2 props and a hooker on the bench, or just 1 and a hooker.

2 props.

As far as I know, the 23rd pick can only be prop, they brought it in because teams were selecting props "who could play both sides" on the bench and they just ended up collapsing.

Generally the squad looks like everyone expected, but a couple of the picks are definitely left-field... no real bolters though.
There are bound to be a handful of injuries before the first test, I'm guessing at least 2 or 3 guys will be replaced.

I can't help but feel that Robshaw would have stood more of a chance of being selected had he been playing with a 6 on his back rather than pretending to be a 7.

 

[Peat]

Told you peeps that Crofty had a good chance of going.

Right call on Robshaw imo, wrong call on Lydiate instead of Wood as the replacement.

Matt Stevens, really?

I'm quite underwhelmed tbh.