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2013 America's Rugby Championship

I have to agree with the yank here, I can't understand why you guys wouldn't want to play the Maori here. My only complaint is that it is outside the test window so we will probably not have our strongest possible line up. Also, I have read on another forum, that tickets sales have gone very well and it could be a sell out.

My only concern with the match is, like others, it is outside the test window and prevents us from fielding a truly competitive team. I'm not sure what the value is in having our domestically based players receive an absolute hiding by a team that will be loaded with super 15 allstars. Aside from a potential short term cash windfall, what does this do to grow the game in Canada? A sold out stadium, a nationally televised match and we are going to get our a***s handed to us. The uninitiated go away saying "geez, we're pretty crappy at rugby. What time does the hockey game start". being uncompetitive does nothing to promote the sport in Canada.
 
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Here is just a sample comparison of lineup for Nov 3rd

1 Ben May
2 Hika Elliot
3 Ben Afeaki
4 Nick Crosswell.
5 Tom Donnelly
6 Victor Vito
7 Taneru Latimer
8 Elliot Dixon
9 Frae Wilson
10 Will Ripia
11 Kade Poki
12 Kurt Baker
13 Tim Bateman
14 Tom Marshall
15 Andre Taylor

Now compare that with the lineup that LG posted for the ARC and add a few injury recovery's maybe a few of the 7's guys and you predict the score line

1. Buydens
2. Barkwill
3. Tieddemann
4. Henry McQueen
5. Jon Phelan (Is he available or overseas?)
6. Nanyak Dala
7. Adam Kleeberger
8. John Moonlight
9. Sean White
10. Liam Underwood
11. Sean Duke
12. Connor Trainor
13. Nick Blevins
14. Ciaran Hearn
15. Connor Braid

The Maori team is just off the top of my head so i'm sure that those more familiar with NZ rugby could put together a more accurate and stronger lineup.
 
My only concern with the match is, like others, it is outside the test window and prevents us from fielding a truly competitive team. I'm not sure what the value is in having our domestically based players receive an absolute hiding by a team that will be loaded with super 15 allstars. Aside from a potential short term cash windfall, what does this do to grow the game in Canada? A sold out stadium, a nationally televised match and we are going to get our a***s handed to us. The uninitiated go away saying "geez, we're pretty crappy at rugby. What time does the hockey game start". being uncompetitive does nothing to promote the sport in Canada.

This....

Also Phelan is overseas Rusty...with Lille. Apparently Crowley is desperately trying to get some of the lower division guys released, maybe if he can get Carpenter or Pritchard we'll at leats have a captain, Hotson would be a huge help at lock as well.
 
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Because it is outside the test window and it doesn't mean anything. I never said anything about playing the game away, just bring a Tier 2 country to Canada to play the match, or heaven forbid one of the Tier 1 nations comes and plays us during the test window. Sorry for being a true rugby fan and caring about actual test matches :rolleyes:

North America gets incoming tests in the Summer. Now you're expecting to get incoming tests in Summer and Fall? Such arrogance.

If you want actual test matches with your best players available, you need matches like the Maori that make money for Rugby Canada. If Rugby Canada can make money off of their tests, they can start paying the clubs to release their players for matches like this and everybody wins.

Also not sure how the random "sorry for being a true rugby fan" applies. Nice non sequitur, though.
 
North America gets incoming tests in the Summer. Now you're expecting to get incoming tests in Summer and Fall? Such arrogance.

If you want actual test matches with your best players available, you need matches like the Maori that make money for Rugby Canada. If Rugby Canada can make money off of their tests, they can start paying the clubs to release their players for matches like this and everybody wins.

Also not sure how the random "sorry for being a true rugby fan" applies. Nice non sequitur, though.

Not being arrogant at all, I have read some of your posts before and I think it is you who are the arrogant one, but I digress!

I am with rustylock on this one, this test does nothing for Canada and the short-term injection of cash this will provide will be offset by the hiding we will receive which will turn off casual viewers which is who we should be really looking to attract. Btw last I looked, we get one incoming test every summer from a celtic nation and then we spend most of our time travelling. We played four tests this summer but that was only because of the pacific nations cup, which thank god we had that otherwise we would have gotten SFA. Last year we played those retarded tests in Wales which also does nothing for our national team or promote Canadian Rugby and we are continually forced to travel to play.
 
Not being arrogant at all, I have read some of your posts before and I think it is you who are the arrogant one, but I digress!

I am with rustylock on this one, this test does nothing for Canada and the short-term injection of cash this will provide will be offset by the hiding we will receive which will turn off casual viewers which is who we should be really looking to attract. Btw last I looked, we get one incoming test every summer from a celtic nation and then we spend most of our time travelling. We played four tests this summer but that was only because of the pacific nations cup, which thank god we had that otherwise we would have gotten SFA. Last year we played those retarded tests in Wales which also does nothing for our national team or promote Canadian Rugby and we are continually forced to travel to play.

So much ridiculousness in this post.

You had 4 home tests this year in the summer (not including the RWCQ). The US had 2. Fiji had 1. Tonga had none. And yet, you're complaining about the lack of home tests and even complaining about noteworthy opponents coming in for a 5th home match. As I said, you're extremely arrogant to expect more given the current conditions.

You also treat the PNC like it's a one-off, which is absurd because it's going to be there every year going forward, paid for the IRB and with the North American teams rarely if ever having to play the PI teams in the PIs.

Then you also have an implied complaint about the quality of opposition coming from Tier 1 sides while simultaneously complaining about the hiding you're going to get from a team that isn't even on the level of those teams.

Take a lap, son.
 
The amount of home games this year was indeed pleasing(though part of this was the PNC's farcical scheduling) and the RWCQ year I have no idea moving forward whether Canada will get to play three of it's four PNC games at home again in fact I consider it unlikely in most years. This influx of tests(plus the Moari game) is a fairly new occurence though as you'll see by the amount of home tests we have gotten before 2012-13.

2013 - U.S.A. (PNC...outside of IRB window), Fiji (PNC), Tonga (PNC), Ireland, U.S.A. (RWCQ), Moari(Non test...outside of IRB window)
2012 - U.S.A., Italy, Georgia
2011 - U.S.A.
2010 - None
2009 - Wales, Ireland, U.S.A.(RWCQ) Russia (A game originally scheduled for Russia, was forced to change venues in Canada as well due to conflicts)
2008 - Scotland A (Non Test...Churchill Cup), Argentina Jaguars (Non test....Churchill Cup), French Barbarians (Non Test)
2007 - Portugal

So going back to 2007, we have played....18 times with our full national side in Canada...of which four were non test matches, five were against the U.S.A.(hardly a ton of travel needed in either direction there)
and one was a match originally scheduled as an away game.
 
It will be very interesting to see the PNC schedule for next season, isn't Samoa suppose to be in it anyway? What I think RC should do is schedule the U.S.A match at B.C. Place Stadium next summer. I do understand the frustration that the Moari match is not in the test window, but I also think that 'beggers can't be choosers.' We need to re-earn our stripes right now by running some of these teams close or beating them before we can start demanding stuff from them. Argentina has gone through that, look how hard it was for them to get regular test matches against top opposition. Also, we should try to get Scotland to play 2 matches against us next June, PNC schedule permitting.
 
You'll get at least 2 and average somewhere around 3 a year in the PNC if I had to guess. Some years, like last, Japan will be a quasi-host and other years it will be quasi-hosted in North America. In fact, with the number of Pacific Islanders in North America (the US in particular) and for travel reasons, it would make more sense for Fiji and Tonga to play a neutral site match in North America and for North America to do the quasi-hosting.

I wouldn't mind seeing us play each other a minimum of twice a year. That would add an extra 1/2 home game per year for each country and we could try to fit it into a test window somewhere. We should also probably have a trophy for it.
 
What is it called and what does the trophy look like?

The Can Am trophy.... canus-press-001.jpg
 
So much ridiculousness in this post.

You had 4 home tests this year in the summer (not including the RWCQ). The US had 2. Fiji had 1. Tonga had none. And yet, you're complaining about the lack of home tests and even complaining about noteworthy opponents coming in for a 5th home match. As I said, you're extremely arrogant to expect more given the current conditions.

See little guy's post below, I didn't feel like digging the numbers but am thankful he did for me, hardly an impressive number when you think from 2012 to 2007 not counting American tests we only had 6 matches at home in a 6 year timeframe.

You also treat the PNC like it's a one-off, which is absurd because it's going to be there every year going forward, paid for the IRB and with the North American teams rarely if ever having to play the PI teams in the PIs.

Who says the PNC isn't a one-off. I have been watching rugby probably before you even knew what rugby was and do you know how many tournaments I have seen come and go that Canada and the USA have participated in? Don't know if you know this but the PNC is not a new idea, a similar tournament was held in the 90's called Epson Cup and lasted for 6 years. Guess what, it was an IRB funded tournament as well but folded due to a number of factors and this list is not exhaustive: cost of the tournament, political instability in the pacific nations, dysfunctional and unreliable unions, etc...

This re-iteration of the old Epson Cup AKA Pacific Rim Championship is nothing new and I will be very surprised if the tournament is still running 5 or 6 years from now. In fact most IRB tournaments don't last more then a few years before they end up folding into something else or get re-shuffled. Epson Cup, Super Powers Cup, Pacific Rugby Campionship, Churchill Cup, Pan American Rugby Championship, Nations Cup, North America 4, etc.... all rugby tournaments that are now either been defunct or have been re-shuffled so much from what their initial intent was that they are pointless.

The only way to stimulate the growth of international rugby is through a proper test match schedule that molds Tier 1 & Tier 2 opposition together and not these meaningless one off games and tournaments that aren't going to last more then a few years. I personally believe that During each test window every Tier 1 nation should be forced to play at least one tier 2 nation. Why does France need to play NZ three times in one summer and then play a one off game against the Auckland Blues? Play a warm up game against Canada and then against the USA, then cross over and play two tests against NZ. Would this not make more sense? Likewise, Canada and the USA should be forced to play lower-ranked sides as well in order to stimulate the growth of the game further down. This sort of system would positively impact rugby across the spectrum and not simply benefit the Tier 1 nations which the present system is totally designed to do.

It has nothing to do with being arrogant norcalbuff, it has everything to do with making international rugby a more competitive and fair environment and right now it is not that.

Then you also have an implied complaint about the quality of opposition coming from Tier 1 sides while simultaneously complaining about the hiding you're going to get from a team that isn't even on the level of those teams.

NZ Maori are a decent side mate, my complaint with this was we booked it outside the test-window which is ridiculously stupid. If we are going to play these matches then they should be in the test window so we can secure the release of our best players because right now we are playing the Maori, which could easily slot into the top 10 of world rugby, with what is essentially our second-string and in certain positions, our third-string side.

Also, one could make that argument that because RWC placement is now determined by world rankings, teams should only be playing test matches. It doesn't do anything for anyone to play someone's B-side because it isn't an official match and doesn't help us at all in climbing the world rankings.

Not trying to be a debbie-downer here norcalbuff but, if you look at my forum join date of July 2004, I have seen a lot of these gimmicky tournaments come and go and remain skeptical as to how viable the PNC and other IRB run tournaments are, long-term.
 
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What is it called and what does the trophy look like?

It's caller the-usa-rugby-program-is-leaving-canada-behind-oh-I'm-talking-out-my-ass-because-the-usa-gave-up-on-the-second-game-and-canada-didn't-really-try trophy.

Personally, I shorten it to the results-are-better-then-promises trophy.

Take a lap, son seeing as you disappeared after the first game despite talking all that crap beforehand.

That was satisfying.
 
It's caller the-usa-rugby-program-is-leaving-canada-behind-oh-I'm-talking-out-my-ass-because-the-usa-gave-up-on-the-second-game-and-canada-didn't-really-try trophy.

Personally, I shorten it to the results-are-better-then-promises trophy.

Take a lap, son seeing as you disappeared after the first game despite talking all that crap beforehand.

That was satisfying.

Was waiting for someone to bring this up :D
 
I have to agree with the yank here, I can't understand why you guys wouldn't want to play the Maori here. My only complaint is that it is outside the test window so we will probably not have our strongest possible line up. Also, I have read on another forum, that tickets sales have gone very well and it could be a sell out.

The North and South stands are both open which has only happened for that and the Ireland game(the North stand by itself was open for Italy and in 2011 for a tiny overflow) which means they are probably around the 14-15 mark at the moment with time to spare, I'm not sure if the 2nd deck west side has been opened if it is that's a good indication of whether they'll get to the 20 K + mark. Some good weather that weekend might push them over, I'm holding out till the last minute but I'm positive Rugby Canada will announce when they break 20K....I'm holding out for the weather, the two rosters etc. I feel the first wave of tickets was a little overpriced though I'm glad I see the North and South stands look a little cheaper.

Also there is mass confusion about this game from much of the casual rugby and sports fan, I've talked to a pile of people about the match and about 75-80% believe it's the full New Zealand All Black side that's visiting, Rugby Canada I beleive is fully in the know on this and is playing right into it by repeatedly calling them the New Zealand Moari All Blacks (how often are they referred to as that in the rugby public?). They have also kept it somewhat on the down low that it isn't in the test window so we might not have our pro's...think I first saw this mentioned by them with the ARC roster announced.
 
Aren't they now called the "Maori All Blacks" ?

That's what I had thought which is why I was surpised at the "New Zealand Maori All Blacks" that Rugby Canada keeps referring to them as....it's subtle I know but I'm sure it's confusing the heck out of the casuals.
 
It is subtle, but I don't think it is a blatant miss information to the public either.
 
The game is going to get a lot of corporate support for sure, which is why Rugby Canada is now in love with BMO Field. They realize that in Toronto corporate support is so strong that they can sell bulk packages of tickets to businesses and all the tickets they sell will be eaten up by employee's, who don't know anything about rugby but are either curious enough to come out and watch given the fact their company gave them the tickets for free, or they can use this as a way to talk business with fellow business people.

Go to a Maple Leafs game sometime at the ACC, 90% of the people in the rink have zero interest in the game and are there to talk business. I wouldn't mind seeing what GM Place can draw for a rugby match :D

On another note, I will probably go to this game, it is a good opportunity to go out and party in Toronto the night before and see some of my buddies!
 
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