2013 America's Rugby Championship

[LittleGuy]

It is subtle, but I don't think it is a blatant miss information to the public either.

Correct....it's just a convenient truth LOL.

I think the ARC should get good support, very good scheduling to ensure maximum capacities, have the Uruguay vs. Canada match on the Friday night, than put the U.S.A. match on the weekday with the possible ***le decider on the line on the Saturday. Tickets were priced correctly as well.

 

[norcalbuff]

See little guy's post below, I didn't feel like digging the numbers but am thankful he did for me, hardly an impressive number when you think from 2012 to 2007 not counting American tests we only had 6 matches at home in a 6 year timeframe.

Why that arbitrary time frame though? What's important is what the test matches look like today and going forward. The IRB has committed to having full test sides tour North America in non-RWC years going forward. That wasn't the case from 2007-2011.

Who says the PNC isn't a one-off. I have been watching rugby probably before you even knew what rugby was and do you know how many tournaments I have seen come and go that Canada and the USA have participated in? Don't know if you know this but the PNC is not a new idea, a similar tournament was held in the 90's called Epson Cup and lasted for 6 years. Guess what, it was an IRB funded tournament as well but folded due to a number of factors and this list is not exhaustive: cost of the tournament, political instability in the pacific nations, dysfunctional and unreliable unions, etc...

This re-iteration of the old Epson Cup AKA Pacific Rim Championship is nothing new and I will be very surprised if the tournament is still running 5 or 6 years from now. In fact most IRB tournaments don't last more then a few years before they end up folding into something else or get re-shuffled. Epson Cup, Super Powers Cup, Pacific Rugby Campionship, Churchill Cup, Pan American Rugby Championship, Nations Cup, North America 4, etc.... all rugby tournaments that are now either been defunct or have been re-shuffled so much from what their initial intent was that they are pointless.

Yes, this is a re-iteration of the Epsom Cup, but again I don't see how that is really relevant.

The only way to stimulate the growth of international rugby is through a proper test match schedule that molds Tier 1 & Tier 2 opposition together and not these meaningless one off games and tournaments that aren't going to last more then a few years. I personally believe that During each test window every Tier 1 nation should be forced to play at least one tier 2 nation. Why does France need to play NZ three times in one summer and then play a one off game against the Auckland Blues? Play a warm up game against Canada and then against the USA, then cross over and play two tests against NZ. Would this not make more sense? Likewise, Canada and the USA should be forced to play lower-ranked sides as well in order to stimulate the growth of the game further down. This sort of system would positively impact rugby across the spectrum and not simply benefit the Tier 1 nations which the present system is totally designed to do.

I agree to some extent but there is no point in forcing New Zealand and South Africa to play Tier 2 sides every year. It doesn't do the Tier 2 team any good to lose by 80 and it is financially hurtful to NZ and SA whose unions need the money to help keep their players from going overseas. It also wouldn't make a lot of sense for us to play Chile and Uruguay on a regular basis as these teams would severely hurt our ability to turn the national teams into profit makers like the Tier 1 national teams.

It has nothing to do with being arrogant norcalbuff, it has everything to do with making international rugby a more competitive and fair environment and right now it is not that.

There isn't enough time in the test windows for what you suggest. You seem to want to play a bunch of Tier 1, Tier 2 and Tier 3 sides in a time frame that simply doesn't work.

NZ Maori are a decent side mate, my complaint with this was we booked it outside the test-window which is ridiculously stupid. If we are going to play these matches then they should be in the test window so we can secure the release of our best players because right now we are playing the Maori, which could easily slot into the top 10 of world rugby, with what is essentially our second-string and in certain positions, our third-string side.

You already have a full test window. So you would either have to drop a full test match or not play this match altogether. Given that you get a full tour and a money making match against the Maori, it's a win-win situation for you guys.

Also, one could make that argument that because RWC placement is now determined by world rankings, teams should only be playing test matches. It doesn't do anything for anyone to play someone's B-side because it isn't an official match and doesn't help us at all in climbing the world rankings.

Not trying to be a debbie-downer here norcalbuff but, if you look at my forum join date of July 2004, I have seen a lot of these gimmicky tournaments come and go and remain skeptical as to how viable the PNC and other IRB run tournaments are, long-term.

RWC placement is only determined by rankings for the teams who finished in the top 3 in their group in the previous RWC. Until you come in top 3 in your group, which you would have last time had France not **** the bed against Tonga, the rankings are meaningless. Once you finish top 3 in your group, you can alter your schedule accordingly.

Regardless, neither Rugby Canada or USA Rugby are in any position to be turning down profitable matches that raise the profile of the national team.

 

[norcalbuff]

It's caller the-usa-rugby-program-is-leaving-canada-behind-oh-I'm-talking-out-my-ass-because-the-usa-gave-up-on-the-second-game-and-canada-didn't-really-try trophy.

Personally, I shorten it to the results-are-better-then-promises trophy.

Take a lap, son seeing as you disappeared after the first game despite talking all that crap beforehand.

That was satisfying.

You missed the entire point of that post. Come back when you learn to read.

 

[norcalbuff]

Was waiting for someone to bring this up

Bring what up? What I was saying there had nothing to do with results today or this year, but rather 10 years down the road. In fact, it was directly after a match where the US lost to Canada by a try.

 

[LittleGuy]

Jaguars squad has been announced...thank you to Paul Tait's blog on getting this up I hadn't found it anywhere on the official sites, there is also an analysis of the side there....http://rugbyworldcup-argentina2023.blogspot.com.br/2013/10/26-man-los-jaguares-squad-named-for.html

Jaguars squad. (Club, Hometown, Position)


Matías Alemanno, La Tablada, Cordobesa Second-row
Facundo Barrea, Córdoba Athletic, Cordobesa Wing
Gonzalo Bertranou, Los Tordos, Cuyo Scrum-half
Juan Ignacio Brex, San Cirano, Buenos Aires Centre
Joaquín Camacho, Buenos Aires C&RC, Buenos Aires Back-row
Juan Cappiello, Club Pucará, Buenos Aires Centre
Martín Chiappesoni, Atlético del Rosario, Buenos Aires Back-row
Matías Díaz, Highlanders, New Zealand Prop
Patricio Fernández, Jockey Club, Rosario Fly Half
Martín García Veiga, Buenos Aires C&RC, Buenos Aires Hooker
Juan Guerineau, Tucumán RC, Tucumán Second-row
Pedro Imhoff, Duendes RC, Rosario Scrum-half
Dan Isaack, Jockey Club, Rosario Wing
Fidel Lamy, Banco RC, Cuyo Back-row
Benjamín Macome, Tucumán RC, Tucumán Back-row
Julián Montoya, Club Newman, Buenos Aires Hooker
Ramiro Moyano, Lince RC, Tucumán Fullback
Matías Orlando, Huirapuca, Tucumán Centre
Francisco Panessi, Jockey Club, Cordobesa Back-row
Guido Petti, Pagadizabal SIC, Buenos Aires Second-row
Sebastián Poet, Atlético del Rosario, Buenos Aires Fly Half
Bruno Postiglioni, La Plata RC, Buenos Aires Hooker
Javier Rojas, Universitario, Tucumán Centre
Roberto Tejerizo, Tucumán Lawn Tennis, Tucumán Prop
Joaquín Tuculet, Unattached, Fullback
Esteban Viale, Marista RC, Cuyo Prop

 

[LittleGuy]

For those wondering, it is a little off topic but we disscussed it earlier in the thread....Rugby Canada just passed the 10,000 mark for the Moari game...I'd say with a month to go, that probably 14-15,000 is a solid targetable number.

 

[rusty_lock]

For those wondering, it is a little off topic but we disscussed it earlier in the thread....Rugby Canada just passed the 10,000 mark for the Moari game...I'd say with a month to go, that probably 14-15,000 is a solid targetable number.

Wow, fantastic number considering it is going to a cold cold night. I just hope we get a few players released early so that our team can be at least a little bit more competitive.

 

[Aspry]

Jaguars squad has been announced...thank you to Paul Tait's blog on getting this up I hadn't found it anywhere on the official sites, there is also an analysis of the side there....http://rugbyworldcup-argentina2023.blogspot.com.br/2013/10/26-man-los-jaguares-squad-named-for.html

Jaguars squad. (Club, Hometown, Position)


Matías Alemanno, La Tablada, Cordobesa Second-row
Facundo Barrea, Córdoba Athletic, Cordobesa Wing
Gonzalo Bertranou, Los Tordos, Cuyo Scrum-half
Juan Ignacio Brex, San Cirano, Buenos Aires Centre
Joaquín Camacho, Buenos Aires C&RC, Buenos Aires Back-row
Juan Cappiello, Club Pucará, Buenos Aires Centre
Martín Chiappesoni, Atlético del Rosario, Buenos Aires Back-row
Matías Díaz, Highlanders, New Zealand Prop
Patricio Fernández, Jockey Club, Rosario Fly Half
Martín García Veiga, Buenos Aires C&RC, Buenos Aires Hooker
Juan Guerineau, Tucumán RC, Tucumán Second-row
Pedro Imhoff, Duendes RC, Rosario Scrum-half
Dan Isaack, Jockey Club, Rosario Wing
Fidel Lamy, Banco RC, Cuyo Back-row
Benjamín Macome, Tucumán RC, Tucumán Back-row
Julián Montoya, Club Newman, Buenos Aires Hooker
Ramiro Moyano, Lince RC, Tucumán Fullback
Matías Orlando, Huirapuca, Tucumán Centre
Francisco Panessi, Jockey Club, Cordobesa Back-row
Guido Petti, Pagadizabal SIC, Buenos Aires Second-row
Sebastián Poet, Atlético del Rosario, Buenos Aires Fly Half
Bruno Postiglioni, La Plata RC, Buenos Aires Hooker
Javier Rojas, Universitario, Tucumán Centre
Roberto Tejerizo, Tucumán Lawn Tennis, Tucumán Prop
Joaquín Tuculet, Unattached, Fullback
Esteban Viale, Marista RC, Cuyo Prop

Good to see some big rugby families, I hope they play as good as their brothers.

Also, nice to see we got one Super Rugby player on our squad

 

[LittleGuy]

Good to see some big rugby families, I hope they play as good as their brothers.

Also, nice to see we got one Super Rugby player on our squad

And three Rugby Championship players. It looks like a decent side, probably the favourites heading in.

 

[canadafan]

Is there a B.C. Winter league thread anywhere? If not, we should have one. Btw Kleeberger was at 12 for CW, apparently.

 

[LittleGuy]

I'll get one fired up soon canadafan...my nets kind of acting a little odd tonight...it took me three tries to respond to you here for some reason. I'm guessing "CDI Premier league general disscussion" would be the best option?

 

[canadafan]

Yeah that would be fine.

 

[rusty_lock]

Big media blitz for ARC ticket sales on local sports talk radio station 1040 AM started yesterday. I really hope they pack that place out. Anyone know the seating capacity?

 

[LittleGuy]

Big media blitz for ARC ticket sales on local sports talk radio station 1040 AM started yesterday. I really hope they pack that place out. Anyone know the seating capacity?

It's been increased to about 5,000 for this years ARC, after last years 3,000 or so proved to be too small to meet the demand. Great news hopefully the matches are well attended.

Finally found a Uruguayan squad list on their official site. Also useful to see the spanish names for positions...I will not be translating LOL.

I spoke to Paul Tait(Melhor Time on here and founder of the great RWC 2023 Argentina blog.) and he says to look out for Duran, Mieres and de Freitas from Uruguay. All in all he said it isn't a very strong side and won't come anywhere near challenging even Canada let alone the Jaguars. Repeating a win against the States would also look doubtful with the full rosters announced.


Uruguay squad

1)Agustín Alonso- Montevideo Cricket (Ala)
2)José Astigarraga- Old Christians (Hooker)
3)Arturo Ãvalo- Carrasco Polo (Hooker)
4)Fernando Bascou-PSG (Ala)
5)Pablo Bueno- Champagnat (Wing)
6)Santiago Core- Old Boys (Centro)
7)Juan De Freitas- Champagnat (Ala)
8)Rodolfo De Mula- PSG (Pilar Izquierdo)
9)Rodrigo De Pazos- Montevideo Cricket (Centro)
10)Alejo Durán- Trébol de Paysandú (Medioscrum)
11)Juan Etcheverría- Old Christians (Pilar Izquierdo)
12)Agustín Indarte- Lobos de Punta del Este (Medioscrum)
13)Francisco Jiménez- Champagnat (Pilar Derecho)
14)Franco Lamanna- Carrasco Polo (Segunda Línea)
15)Diego Magno- Montevideo Cricket (Octavo)
16)Alejandro Nieto- Champagnat (Segunda Línea)
17)Juan Andrés Peña- Seminario (Centro-Wing)
18)Juan Pedro Rombys- Trébol de Paysandú (Pilar Derecho)
19)Mateo Sanguinetti- Los Cuervos (Segunda Línea)
20)Santiago Vilaseca- Old Boys (Octavo)
21)Andrés Vilaseca- Old Boys (Centro)
22)Gastón Mieres- Lobos de Punta del Este (Fullback)
23)Joaquín Prada- Los Cuervos (Apertura-Centro)
24)Santiago Martínez- Carrasco Polo (Fullback)
25)Matías Beer- Old Christians (Segunda Línea)
26)Rodrigo Silva- Carrasco Polo (Apertura)

 

[LittleGuy]

Tieddemann has been named captain of Canada's side....I probably would have gone with Kleeberger but maybe the coaching staff felt differently with him just returning to action in the last couple of months.

 

[canadafan]

Canada A to face Uruguay:

1 Andrew Tiedemann (capt.)
2 Micha Govorchin
3 Jake Ilnicki
4 Hank McQueen
5 Aaron Flagg
6 Callum Morrison
7 Adam Kleeberger
8 Zac Coughlan

9 Jamie Mackenzie
10 Jack Fitzpatrick
11 Joe Dolesau
12 Mike Scholz
13 Conor Trainor
14 Duncan Maguire
15 Adam McQueen

16 Ray Barkwill
17 Doug Wooldridge
18 Ryan March
19 Kyle Baillie
20 Matt Heaton
21 Alistair Clark
22 Sean White
23 Jordan Wilson-Ross

 

[LittleGuy]

Pretty decent side, looks like a couple of newbies getting into action which isn't suprising in what should be the least challenging opponent at the ARC. Fitzpatirick at 10 is intruiging him and A. McQueen are switched fom their normal positions. Love seeing Kleebs back into action.

My guess is Barkwill, Wooldridge and White might start against U.S.A. and Jaguars.

The games are streamed live on the youtube official channels and both English and Spanish commentary will be available. Matches hsould be archived if they are on the youtube channel which is good news.

 

[LittleGuy]

Jaguars side announced for tommorow's game vs. the U.S.A. Good analysis of the lineup here....http://rugbyworldcup-argentina2023.blogspot.com.br/2013/10/joaquin-tuculet-to-lead-los-jagures.html

Jaguares


1- Bruno Postiglioni
2- Martín García Veiga
3- Matías Díaz
4- Matías Alemanno
5- Guido Petti Pagadizabal
6- Joaquín Camacho
7- Martín Chiappesoni
8- Francisco Panessi
9- Pedro Imhoff
10- Sebastián Poet
11- Matías Orlando
12- Javier Rojas
13- Juan Ignacio Brex
14- Facundo Barrea
15- Joaquín Tuculet (capitán)


Suplentes:

16- Julián Montoya
17- Roberto Tejerizo
18- Esteban Viale
19- Juan Martín Gueurineau
20- Fidel Lamy
21- Gonzalo Bertranou
22- Patricio Fernández
23- Dan Isaack


And the American lineup for the game.....


Eagles Select XV | v. Argentina


1. ***i Lamositele
2. Phillip Thiel
3. Shawn Pittman
4. Graham Harriman
5. William Haydock
6. Daniel Barrett
7. Liam Murphy
8. Cameron Dolan
9. Shaun Davies
10. Toby L'Estrange
11. Ed Mills
12. Mile Pulu
13. Chris Chapman
14. Mark Roberts
15. Adam Siddall

Eagles Select XV | Reserves

16. Cameron Falcon
17. Nick Wallace
18. Chris Sullivan
19. Tai Tuisamoa
20. Derek Asbun
21. Chris Saint
22. Peter Moala
23. Tim Maupin

 

[LittleGuy]

Slight adjustment to Canada's lineup, Kyle Gilmour has replaced Kyle Baillie on the bench in the #19 jersey due to an injury....I'm still trying to hunt down Uruguay's squad.

And here it is.....

Uruguay

1 R. de Mula,
2 A. Avalo,
3 F. Jimenez
4 A. Nieto,
5 S. Vilaseca
6 J. de Freitas,
7 F. Lamanna
8 D. Magno,
9 A. Durán,
10 R. Silva
11 P. Bueno,
12 A. Vilaseca,
13 J. Prada
14 S. Martinez
15 G. Mieres.

Bench

16 J. Etcheverría
17 J. Astigarraga
18 J.P Rombys
19 Matías Beer
20 F. Bascou
21 Agustín Alonso
22 A. Indarte
23 S. Core

 

[norcalbuff]

Tolkin is absolutely ridiculous. Apparently L'Estrange performing significantly worse at 10 than a guy who has been playing 7 almost exclusively during the RWCQs wasn't enough. Now he's wasting development opportunities at the ARC on the same freaking guy. Unreal. Wouldn't mind seeing him at 12 but he's a 10 who can't kick and doesn't light the backline on fire. Better be able to do one if you can't do the other. Also a complete lack of vision to play Siddall at 15 when we have two excellent options at 15 in the test side in Wyles and Scully (who apparently is good enough to start for Leicester consistently but couldn't crack the Eagle backline most of the summer thanks to Tolkin's fondness for Seamus Kelly). Would much rather see him get a crack at 10 or 12. Honestly, I'd have fired Tolkin after the RWCQs and brought back Billups or Payne through the RWC.

Argentina to beat us by 25 and Canada to beat Uruguay by 20.