World Political Debate Team

[St Helens RLFC]

LMAO! Yeah, just mixing it up Dan. Next I'm thinking I might change it to "leading the fight for Islam!" - But then our headquarters may get carpet bombed, so maybe I won't. [/b]

Mrs SHRLFC would no longer then have to complain about the house being untidy...



Excellent idea!

 

[Ripper]

John Keys for 2008.

 

[getofmeland]

Time to take on Iran!!!

They have Our Troops Now Lets get them Back!!!

 

[Prestwick]

My beef is with our "brave boys and girls" being held.

Whatever happened to "name rank and number"?!

I look forward to Faye Turney being hired by Iranian State TV to present her own Feminist Jihadi Talk Show. Makes me sick.

 

[getofmeland]

Well we dont know what they have threatened to do to her, and you can tell she was told what to say but I know what you mean...

Our SAS will know where they are and they will be waiting just for the word, except Mr Blair ain't got the guts to call that word...

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

Well we dont know what they have threatened to do to her, and you can tell she was told what to say but I know what you mean...

[/b]

It's very, very difficult but yeah, I know what you mean as well. Still, walk a mile in their shoes etc etc

 

[getofmeland]

I personally feel she shouldnt of been there to be totally honest, especially with a baby at home... but thats my view... rather irresponsible if you ask me...

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotemain'>
Well we dont know what they have threatened to do to her, and you can tell she was told what to say but I know what you mean...

[/b]

It's very, very difficult but yeah, I know what you mean as well. Still, walk a mile in their shoes etc etc
[/b][/quote]

Irrelevant. You think they're enduring anything worse than any other British Serviceman captured in Korea or elsewhere in the past? The difference between these guys who have been captured and the average British or Commonwealth squaddie captured in Korea or Vietnam (if you're an ANZAC) is that the North Koreans or Vietnamese wouldn't think twice about harming their PoWs. Right now Iran has the eyes of the world looking at them and if it transpired that if they abused their...detainees in any way physically because they had the temerity to refuse to appear on TV to admit guilt then they would lose any kind of credibility in the Arab world and the world at large (especially with their backers in Russia and China).

But here we have the so called finest of HMS Cornwall basically jumping through any hoop that the Iranians are offering them! I don't think the Iranians have had to offer the threat of violence or severe punishment at all in this case,

The fact is that the media have been up in arms about her and her predicament. The whole point about equalisation of the sexes in the Royal Navy (as trumpeted by the feminists, etc) is that Women should be treated exactly the same as their male shipmates, etc.

But this whole fiasco, with the media trumpeting every part of her private life makes a complete mockery of this whole concept as she is the whole star of this screw up.

Another annoying aspect of this is how easily the Royal Marine Commandos just rolled over and gave up and how HMS Cornwall (which was quite close) did bugger all to help. If those were Paras in those boats, the Iranians would have to wrest those British rifles from their owner's cold dead hands.

Someone dropped a serious bollock, whatever happened, next time I think every time a Royal Navy party goes to inspect a boat, the mothership will probably despatch a Lynx chopper armed to the brim with Sea Skua missles and any other weapon they can load on there. There is no way they'd let the Iranians pull off another coup like this again.

 

[O'Rothlain]

Firstly :bana: "World Political Debate Team" back in effect! We shoulda won the Best Thread nomination!

Secondly, I'm very sick of this whole middle east thing. We should just pull out, close our borders to their citizens and embargo the hell out of them. Yes, we'd pay more for petrol (or as I'd normally say, Gas), but we'd surely be paying less in taxes to support this sort of enormonstorous war.
They're like the class clown...the more attention you pay to them, the more they carry on. Just ignore them and let them f___ about in the sand.

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

Firstly :bana: "World Political Debate Team" back in effect! We shoulda won the Best Thread nomination!

Secondly, I'm very sick of this whole middle east thing. We should just pull out, close our borders to their citizens and embargo the hell out of them. Yes, we'd pay more for petrol (or as I'd normally say, Gas), but we'd surely be paying less in taxes to support this sort of enormonstorous war.
They're like the class clown...the more attention you pay to them, the more they carry on. Just ignore them and let them f___ about in the sand.
[/b]

Erm....it's our fault they are in such a fantastically bad mess, from Israel right through to Iraq. We can't just walk away now.

It'd be morally reprehensible.

 

[Prestwick]

Its hilarious because if you talk to many Turks and they laugh at the Arab World. With good reason though.

 

[wigan_rlfc]

Its hilarious because if you talk to many Turks and they laugh at the Arab World. With good reason though.
[/b]

Turks aren't Arabs though, neither are Iranians.

 

[getofmeland]

NUKE DUBAI!!!

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotemain'>
Its hilarious because if you talk to many Turks and they laugh at the Arab World. With good reason though.
[/b]

Turks aren't Arabs though, neither are Iranians.
[/b][/quote]

True but they straddle the divide between East and West pretty well and they feel an obligation to try and bring a sense of logic and rationalisation to the Middle East.

And it also doesn't stop them from laughing at how the Arabs and the Persians love to shoot themselves in the foot and squabble amongst themselves in their totalitarian regimes sitting on a time bomb of eventually running out of oil, instead of looking at the bigger picture which is what modern Turkey is starting to do now.

 

[O'Rothlain]

<div class='quotemain'>
Firstly :bana: "World Political Debate Team" back in effect! We shoulda won the Best Thread nomination!

Secondly, I'm very sick of this whole middle east thing. We should just pull out, close our borders to their citizens and embargo the hell out of them. Yes, we'd pay more for petrol (or as I'd normally say, Gas), but we'd surely be paying less in taxes to support this sort of enormonstorous war.
They're like the class clown...the more attention you pay to them, the more they carry on. Just ignore them and let them f___ about in the sand.
[/b]

Erm....it's our fault they are in such a fantastically bad mess, from Israel right through to Iraq. We can't just walk away now.

It'd be morally reprehensible.
[/b][/quote]
I don't really see it that way. All of these places were "problem" places long before the West ever got involved. If we can learn anything from the Film 300 it is that the Persians were weird, creepy people. Jokes aside, they have been equally at fault for everything that has ever taken place in their territories. Let's not pretend that they were innocent victims to a greedy west, because at one point the west were innocent victims of a greedy east. We'll never be on the same page as the Eastern world. They are practising middle ages politics in a modern world...we can't help that. Let them slit their own throats. It's either sink or swim for them...if they are as great as they say they are, let them prove it. Let's just get out and leave them to their fully veiled women and camels (maybe not in that order). We honestly do not need the East. The only thing they contribute to modern society is fuel. There are alternative sources and alternative fuels, so let's explore them. I don't want to stereotype the whole of the middle east, but sometimes stereotypes are necessary when analizing a culture. They can't get along with each other, they only see black and white, and they are willing to use very harsh methods to fulfill their agendas. Sadaam was Sadaam because that society allows for Sadaam types. Again, they are using policies which date back to what we term the "Dark Ages." Let them live in the dark.
Yes, our interventions have been a disaster. Sometimes you simply have to walk away and say "My bad." If you keep trying to fix it, you'll keep f'ing it up. We aren't eastern and don't fully comprehend being eastern, so how the heck are we honestly supposed to fix the east? We can't! Have you ever done business with someone from the middle east? Our western business practices and their easter practicess don't mix. What's succesfull there is not succesfull here and vice versa.

 

[RoyalBlueStuey]

Nate, much as I hold you in esteem I just can't agree with you on this one. We can no more absolve our responsibilties to the nations of the middle east than we can to Africa. Countries like Britain and America have sown so now they've got to reap. You can't just spend 100 years interfering then adopt an isolationist policy when it all goes to crap.

Imperial exploitation and naive Kissinger style interventionism means that we can't just walk away.

As a footnote it's easy to sit there and say "Let bomb the savages back into the stone-age and then let them kill each other" but I've heard so many stories about places in the middle east and Iran in particular being absolutely chock-full of the most generous, friendly people you'll ever meet. Everyone I've met who's ever been to Iran say's they are embaressingly hospitable (maybe that's why they won't give our sailors back...they just haven't pampered them enough).

 

[Ripper]

Nate, much as I hold you in esteem I just can't agree with you on this one. We can no more absolve our responsibilties to the nations of the middle east than we can to Africa. Countries like Britain and America have sown so now they've got to reap. You can't just spend 100 years interfering then adopt an isolationist policy when it all goes to crap.

Imperial exploitation and naive Kissinger style interventionism means that we can't just walk away.

As a footnote it's easy to sit there and say "Let bomb the savages back into the stone-age and then let them kill each other" but I've heard so many stories about places in the middle east and Iran in particular being absolutely chock-full of the most generous, friendly people you'll ever meet. Everyone I've met who's ever been to Iran say's they are embaressingly hospitable (maybe that's why they won't give our sailors back...they just haven't pampered them enough).
[/b]

To Quote PJ O'Rourke "Man to Man Arabs are the salt of the earth...but get them in a pack and shove a Koran down them pants and they act like a footlocker full of glue-sniffing civet cats."

 

[O'Rothlain]

Nate, much as I hold you in esteem I just can't agree with you on this one. We can no more absolve our responsibilties to the nations of the middle east than we can to Africa. Countries like Britain and America have sown so now they've got to reap. You can't just spend 100 years interfering then adopt an isolationist policy when it all goes to crap.

Imperial exploitation and naive Kissinger style interventionism means that we can't just walk away.

As a footnote it's easy to sit there and say "Let bomb the savages back into the stone-age and then let them kill each other" but I've heard so many stories about places in the middle east and Iran in particular being absolutely chock-full of the most generous, friendly people you'll ever meet. Everyone I've met who's ever been to Iran say's they are embaressingly hospitable (maybe that's why they won't give our sailors back...they just haven't pampered them enough).
[/b]

I'm not one of those let's nuke them and let them eek out a life sort of persons. At some point we just have to admit that we can't fix it, and the more interfering we do, the more messed up it gets. Are we responsible? Yes. We (America) trained Osama and all his buddies. I don't see a reasonable way that we can, except through diplomacy, help. Are we now going to dispose of every leader we (the west) disagree with? I'd love, personally, for the President of Iran to take a sniper bullet through the eye...he's a half-crazed twat...but can we and should we do it? I don't know.
Loitering around the middle east does no good either. We can't simply be their police. So, if you say we have a responsibility to fix it, what do you suggest? In my opinion the most knowledgeable people have been trying to resolve things for a while and can't do it. I doubt a Nate-Stuey Symposium on Middle Eastern Policy would come to any better conclusion (although we'd probably down a few more beers than the UN). Wasn't a British guy responsible for drawing up all the borders? Not that I'm trying to place blame on the UK...I'm just wanting to make sure I have my facts straight. If anyone has more detailed info on the creation of Modern day Middle eastern states, please share.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Iran have to answer to Team Coalition!

f*** YEAH!

 

[wigan_rlfc]

<div class='quotemain'>
Nate, much as I hold you in esteem I just can't agree with you on this one. We can no more absolve our responsibilties to the nations of the middle east than we can to Africa. Countries like Britain and America have sown so now they've got to reap. You can't just spend 100 years interfering then adopt an isolationist policy when it all goes to crap.

Imperial exploitation and naive Kissinger style interventionism means that we can't just walk away.

As a footnote it's easy to sit there and say "Let bomb the savages back into the stone-age and then let them kill each other" but I've heard so many stories about places in the middle east and Iran in particular being absolutely chock-full of the most generous, friendly people you'll ever meet. Everyone I've met who's ever been to Iran say's they are embaressingly hospitable (maybe that's why they won't give our sailors back...they just haven't pampered them enough).
[/b]

I'm not one of those let's nuke them and let them eek out a life sort of persons. At some point we just have to admit that we can't fix it, and the more interfering we do, the more messed up it gets. Are we responsible? Yes. We (America) trained Osama and all his buddies. I don't see a reasonable way that we can, except through diplomacy, help. Are we now going to dispose of every leader we (the west) disagree with? I'd love, personally, for the President of Iran to take a sniper bullet through the eye...he's a half-crazed twat...but can we and should we do it? I don't know.
Loitering around the middle east does no good either. We can't simply be their police. So, if you say we have a responsibility to fix it, what do you suggest? In my opinion the most knowledgeable people have been trying to resolve things for a while and can't do it. I doubt a Nate-Stuey Symposium on Middle Eastern Policy would come to any better conclusion (although we'd probably down a few more beers than the UN). Wasn't a British guy responsible for drawing up all the borders? Not that I'm trying to place blame on the UK...I'm just wanting to make sure I have my facts straight. If anyone has more detailed info on the creation of Modern day Middle eastern states, please share.
[/b][/quote]


As far as I know the UK was given Palestine as a League of Nations mandate after the break up of the Ottoman empire. During the and immediatley after third Reich a mixture between escaping the Nazi's and Zionism lead to many Jews wanting to set up home in Palestine, the British tried to stop this Illegal immigration but the huge tide of immigrants plus sympathy for the victims of the holocaust lead to the State of Isreal being formed in the Palestine. Theres probably loads of information that I don't know but I hope this helps.