What should be the H Cup qualification system?

[big ginger 8]

It's 3 leagues, 8 teams from each league to make 24 teams. Easiest way to do it.

No teams are hyped more than the Pro12 sides, so that doesn't fly right anyway.

Who hypes the Pro12 teams Munster and Leinster may be the only ones and that's not exactly undeserving hype given there history. The French teams are IMO usually overhyped with mid to lower table teams often considered favorites the odd time vs top Aviva or Pro12 teams.

 

[welshglory]

That's a pretty poor reason Amiga. How many Scottish, Welsh or Italian sides have gotten out of their groups in the whole history of the HC?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't think it should be separated by league they should stick with allocations per country.

This would be difficult to implement but it's plausible if done right.

7 English
7 French
2 Irish
2 Welsh
2 Scottish
1 Italian
1 Amlin Winner
1 HEC winner
1 Next best positioned side in Pro 12.

Would also make Pro 12 more competitive.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Why do the Scot's get a second place, but not the Italians?

 

[welshglory]

Scottish sides are better

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Edinburgh and Glasgow are a lot more competitive than the Italian sides.
It could have Scotland with only one spot but then everyone would be complaining about the Pro 12 getting two extra spots.

 

[Amiga500]

That's a pretty poor reason Amiga. How many Scottish, Welsh or Italian sides have gotten out of their groups in the whole history of the HC?

How far back do you weight history?

If you want to start a coefficient thing like soccer - then that is a slippery slope which will only concentrate money around the few clubs/regions that happened to be in the pound seats when the musical chairs stopped.


In the last year, 1 PremierHype team qualified beyond the groups. What is the case for giving that league any more? If the alternative is going to be a league based system, then evaluate the strength of the leagues right now - and right now it would look like the Pro12 is better than the PremierHype... so I don't see the logic of moving places from the stronger to the weaker (and going away from the country system that has worked to date).


Sometimes change is good. Change for change's sake however is almost always a mistake. I don't see the longer term benefit to rugby in the proposed change.

 

[Peat]

I don't think it should be separated by league they should stick with allocations per country.

This would be difficult to implement but it's plausible if done right.

7 English
7 French
2 Irish
2 Welsh
2 Scottish
1 Italian
1 Amlin Winner
1 HEC winner
1 Next best positioned side in Pro 12.

Would also make Pro 12 more competitive.

That requires 3 turkies to vote for Christmas while neither giving equal representation to leagues, or entirely meritocratic selection - as such, I don't think its plausible.

 

[Teh Mite]

How far back do you weight history?

If you want to start a coefficient thing like soccer - then that is a slippery slope which will only concentrate money around the few clubs/regions that happened to be in the pound seats when the musical chairs stopped.


In the last year, 1 PremierHype team qualified beyond the groups. What is the case for giving that league any more? If the alternative is going to be a league based system, then evaluate the strength of the leagues right now - and right now it would look like the Pro12 is better than the PremierHype... so I don't see the logic of moving places from the stronger to the weaker (and going away from the country system that has worked to date).


Sometimes change is good. Change for change's sake however is almost always a mistake. I don't see the longer term benefit to rugby in the proposed change.

I imagine you'll be pleased as punch in 2 years time when he HEC becomes the exclusive plaything of the Purgatory teams, after the French and English sides f-off and play with the South Africans.

 

[rustynuts]

you guy's just don't get it do you the Heineken cup's sole purpose and why it was setup was/is to allow the best team's in Europe to compete whit one another regularly and by doing this it would increase the standard of the European game and also the six nation's over time. it has done this to great effect. the french and English have gained enormously directly and indirectly from it. now that the Celtic league is dominating the English and french need to up there standards or they will not be able to compete whit the Celtic league i propose that the aviva premiership and top 14 should do the following to increase standards: cut there league's to just 8 team's and raise there budget cap's to about 7 million per team this would further increase the standard of the European club game also Im heartbroken for the welsh club's to see there best player's being sucked up by the rich french club's so i would like to see restriction's put in place to stop this imbalance. and to the idiot's that want to only allow the top 8 team's in the Celtic league place's in the hcup that would probably lead to only one Scottish and Italian team in the hcup every year this would significantly hurt the Scottish and Italian national side's thus decreasing the standard's of the six nation's therefore hurting all the other side's involved including France and England over time. also tehmite's comment is very childish and ignorant none of the other nation's were treating to leave the hcup when the English were dominating no we welcomed it because they were increasing the standards of the European game just like the celtic league is now.

 

[retardedgenius]

tonight there will be potentially NO english sides left in the heiniken cup and 3 pro12 sides so what league is really stronger

 

[Teh Mite]

tonight there will be potentially NO english sides left in the heiniken cup and 3 pro12 sides so what league is really stronger

Dunno, the 2nd string purgatory league sides are never in the HEC.

. also tehmite's comment is very childish and ignorant none of the other nation's were treating to leave the hcup when the English were dominating no we welcomed it because they were increasing the standards of the European game just like the celtic league is now.

try doing your research before gobbing off. The rep of the PRL and Top14 pretty much said to the ERC stop the skewer ot were off. Only the most one eyed felt could possibly believe the competition isn't skewered in the part-time franchises' favour.

 

[smartcooky]

I have never understood why the winner of the Challenge Cup gets a spot in the Heineken Cup. To me its like giving the winner of the Europa League an automatic spot in the Champion's League. It makes no sense.

 

[Glasgow_88]

I have never understood why the winner of the Challenge Cup gets a spot in the Heineken Cup. To me its like giving the winner of the Europa League an automatic spot in the Champion's League. It makes no sense.

Means winning the competition actually means something. Europa League in football seems pointless to me they should be looking to implement the winners entering the Champions League as well in my opinion. Reason English and Italians don't take the Europa League serious because it's pointless to them but add the chance of Champions League qualification and i bet majority those clubs take it serious.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't get/like how the winner of the LV= cup gets a HEC spot.

 

[Teh Mite]

That only applies to the English teams for the same reasons above. Fair comment of the LV is it's worthless otherwise.

 

[psychic duck]

tonight there will be potentially NO english sides left in the heiniken cup and 3 pro12 sides so what league is really stronger

I sense somebody wanting to brag and throw sticks at the English, yet I'm sure you and people like cried and called English arrogant when there were three English teams in the semi finals in 2007

I have never understood why the winner of the Challenge Cup gets a spot in the Heineken Cup. To me its like giving the winner of the Europa League an automatic spot in the Champion's League. It makes no sense.

that has to happen, it does make sense for obvious reasons already stated

I don't get/like how the winner of the LV= cup gets a HEC spot.

do you really care? the winner normally qualifies anyway so it doesn't really ever matter

 

[welshglory]

I sense somebody wanting to brag and throw sticks at the English, yet I'm sure you and people like cried and called English arrogant when there were three English teams in the semi finals in 2007

Well said Duck

 

[smartcooky]

OK.

I thought the Heineken Cup was the European Rugby Championship, the symbol of European Club Rugby superiority, fought out between the best 24 club teams from all the nations in Europe.

The winner of the Challenge Cup may not be a top 24 team, but they have automatic entry, so maybe I was wrong about that.

 

[big ginger 8]

OK.

I thought the Heineken Cup was the European Rugby Championship, the symbol of European Club Rugby superiority, fought out between the best 24 club teams from all the nations in Europe.

The winner of the Challenge Cup may not be a top 24 team, but they have automatic entry, so maybe I was wrong about that.

Aironi and Treviso are worse than a lot of teams in the Amlin. H Cup is more the majority of Europe's top teams. Not entirely certain but I think Biarritz won't qualify unless they win the Amlin.