Welsh squad for the AI's.

dullonien · Sep 28, 2010

By all accounts he's recovering much quicker than expected, and as Cymro has hinted at, will probably be back in time for the AI's. It'll be interesting to see how much gametime he'll get though with Bishop and Jon Davies really pushing hard for a spot. I'd like to see Davies play alongside Hook, as I think Hook can be the Regan King style player that really brings the best out of him. So I'd personally start against Aus (I think that's our first game) with a Davies - Hook combo (unless Hook and Bishop are on fire for the O's) and have Jamie on the bench. I doubt any opposition player would like to see Roberts come onto the field on the 60min mark despirate to regain his starting spot.

Can any Wasps supporter let me know how Powell's getting on? By all accounts (third hand news) he's going really well and the new law interpretations suit his style of play. If that's true, then maybe he'd make a great impact sub at 8.

DuncTheDoodle · Sep 28, 2010

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15. Lee Byrne
14. Leigh Halfpenny
13. James Hook
12. Jonathan Davies
11. Shane Williams
10. Stephen Jones
9. Tavis Knoyle

8. Ryan Jones (Captain)
7. Martyn Williams
6. Dan Lydiate
5. Bradley Davies
4. Luke Charteris
3. Adam Jones
2. Matthew Rees
1. Gethin Jenkins

REPLACEMENTS: T Rhys Thomas, Paul James, Alun Wyn Jones, Sam Warburton, Richie Rees, Dan Biggar, Chris Czekaj

Kenny'd be on the bench, if he isn't injured.

MichaelBoard · Sep 28, 2010

Yeah DunctheDoodle, spot on with that team, on paper that sounds dangerous and is a side any team would be slightly worried about in my opinion. Since Gatland has been at the helm for Wales one thing I can't praise him enough for is the strength in depth that we now have. Just look at all the previous players that we've mentioned in this topic, all probably good enough and worthy of a spot in the Wales squad, theres real depth and quality in Welsh rugby and as a result I think we'll be well equipped for the future when the likes of Shane Williams, Martyn Williams and Stephen Jones retire which at one point I couldn't see passed this but we have some more than capable young players to fill their boots.

MichaelBoard · Sep 28, 2010

Oh and by the way the only thing in that side you picked that I wouldn't totally be sure of is the second row. Not sure who I'd partner with Alun Wyn Jones but for me he'd definitely be starting, whether it be with Goughy, Bradley Davies or Luke Charteris. Although he hasn't exactly been amazing so far in the Magners Leagie, you can't deny how good he performs, and the effort and passion he gives and shows when wearing a welsh jersey, hes a top player.

TRF_Cymro · Sep 28, 2010

Id go with that but there is no way Tavis Knoyle would start over Richie Rees and Mike Phillips ... and Tavis Knoyle is hyped up to much like Biggar, he is not that great.

If Jaime Roberts was not starting then he would get a place on the bench infront of Chris Czekaj.

dullonien · Sep 28, 2010

Who would you drop back to fullback if Byrne were injured Cymro? There's many options in Hook, Halfpenny and Roberts. Personally I'm not a fan atall of Hook at fullback. It's a waste of his talents and he just doesn't have the right kinda game for it. He doesn't hit the line in the way a fullback should. A fullback should run good lines, not just come into the line and act as if they're another centre. I'm also not confident enough in his arial abilities, not that they're bad, just not quite good enough. But the biggest reason I don't want to see Hook shifted back is because I feel he's too important to us in the centre at the moment.

Halfpenny's not quite good enough in the air for me, as he's a little on the short side. He's actually awesome in that regard for his size, but he's lost a few every time I've seen him play at 15.

Roberts would probably be the best suited to move, and I'm beggining to think he should be re-tried either at fullback or wing.

I'd be tempded to keep Czekaj on the bench as wing/fullback cover and have Jamie Roberts on the bench instead of Biggar, with Hook moving to 10 is Jones get's injured. Then again we need to develop another 10, so mayb Biggar or Sweeney should be on the bench and getting a good 20 mins against Aus. Oh I don't know, either way I think Roberts should be on the bench if fit for the reasons I posted last night...

TRF_Cymro · Sep 28, 2010

dullonien said:
Who would you drop back to fullback if Byrne were injured Cymro? There's many options in Hook, Halfpenny and Roberts. Personally I'm not a fan atall of Hook at fullback. It's a waste of his talents and he just doesn't have the right kinda game for it. He doesn't hit the line in the way a fullback should. A fullback should run good lines, not just come into the line and act as if they're another centre. I'm also not confident enough in his arial abilities, not that they're bad, just not quite good enough. But the biggest reason I don't want to see Hook shifted back is because I feel he's too important to us in the centre at the moment.

Halfpenny's not quite good enough in the air for me, as he's a little on the short side. He's actually awesome in that regard for his size, but he's lost a few every time I've seen him play at 15.

Roberts would probably be the best suited to move, and I'm beggining to think he should be re-tried either at fullback or wing.

I'd be tempded to keep Czekaj on the bench as wing/fullback cover and have Jamie Roberts on the bench instead of Biggar, with Hook moving to 10 is Jones get's injured. Then again we need to develop another 10, so mayb Biggar or Sweeney should be on the bench and getting a good 20 mins against Aus. Oh I don't know, either way I think Roberts should be on the bench if fit for the reasons I posted last night...

Personally it would be stupid not to have a Lion fit not in the match squad 22. There are others on the bench who could make way, Roberts is capable of covering 12,13, 11,14 and 15.

Remember Roberts, Hook and Halfpenny have all played there so that be cover plenty. Of course there wont be just Byrne in the squad.

MichaelBoard · Sep 28, 2010

I do agree with what Jonathan Davies said on Scrum V on Sunday, we need another specialist fullback. Although I'm sure the likes of Halfpenny/Hook etc would be good enough cover, however i feel if Hook was shifted to 15 then as has been previously mentioned we'd lose so much creativity in the centre which is very important. I think that when Martyn Thomas returns from that nasty ankle injury and is fit and performing he is the answer. He'd be a perfect backup/number 2 specialist fullback to cover Lee Byrne if he was to get injured.

DuncTheDoodle · Sep 28, 2010

I had just assumed that Roberts was out. He would make the bench in the place of Biggar if he was indeed fit. I felt Charteris and Davies have both played very well so far in the ML, while AWJ hasn't. Knoyle has looked very good for the Scarlets, and offers what both Rees and Philips does. I was against the hype train surrounding him up until a few weeks ago, now I can see exactly what people see in him.

TRF_Olyy · Sep 28, 2010

When is Roberts back? I remember December being thrown about around the time of the surgery, but haven't heard anything since.
I read something this morning where Gatland said he was very impressed with Davies in the Scarlets game on the weekend. I think this weekends Davies vs Bishop encounter could well decide who gets the shirt

TRF_Cymro · Sep 28, 2010

Olyy said:
When is Roberts back? I remember December being thrown about around the time of the surgery, but haven't heard anything since.
I read something this morning where Gatland said he was very impressed with Davies in the Scarlets game on the weekend. I think this weekends Davies vs Bishop encounter could well decide who gets the shirt

When the BBC covered one of the Blues games the other day they did say that he was ahead of schedule and that he would be back by the end of October. So he should be back and available for the AI.

Knoyle only looked good against the Dragons to be fair because the Dragons played poorly, lot of gaps etc. Knoyle awareness is poor with ball in hand and at the base of a ruck. If you watch there are times when he makes a break and he runs away from support and also when he has a chance to pass the ball he sometimes takes ages to do so meaning that quick ball is not there. He also tends at times to take the wrong options. For me if he was to be selected for the AI he would be at best the third choice option behind Mike Phillips and Richie Rees. Lloyd Williams for me looks a better bet in the future of the two.

dullonien · Sep 28, 2010

Tavis Knoyle's very young Cymro so I wouldn't be too harsh on him. I think he's goot a good pass to go along with the physical side of his game, and I think he'll be a great player in a couple of years. But I do agree that he's third in the running at the moment, which in itself is nothing to sniff at! Lloyd Williams and him should provide years of service to Wales. But if you're going to comment about Knoyle not passing once making a break, you should do the same with Lloyd Williams. Williams almost butchered a try against Treviso on the weekend after making a great break then going for the line himself instead of simply passing to Shanklin who was is acres of space. Luckily his flicked pass that went to ground was picked up by Blair and all was well, but Blair could have easily knocked on, and the chance squandered.

dullonien · Oct 4, 2010

So after another round of matches, any changes here?

I think we could see a bit of a shock call in the second row. Gough isn't playing all that well, and was a bit of a penalty machine against the Scarlets. I think Gatland could opt for a bit of a shakeup here by introducing Lou Reed to the squad. I thought he was excellent on Sat night in all facets of play. He's usually the Scarlet's top lineout catcher, and on Sat he carried well and put in quite a few tackles. Worth a shot imo.

I thought Jon Thomas had another decent game at 8, and Rya Jones was ok when he came on. I'm not sure if there's much to choose here, as neither make massive galloping runs, and both aren't that great from the back of a scrum etc. However one player who did show up well in the backrow was Josh Turnbull. I'd personally make room for him in the squad, as he's just the kind of player we need at 6. Would be a massive battle for the blindside shirt between Lydiate, McCusker and Turnbull.

Warberton had a good game against Conacht and I feel he's more important to Wales than he is for the Blues. The Blues have Molitika and Rush to do the donkey work and hard yards, meaning they have space for Martyn Williams in the backrow if they fancy. For Wales however, I'm not sure if we can pass up the chance to include another ball carrier in Warberton at 7, as we lack at 8 like Rush. So whilst Martyn Williams has gotten the nod for the Blues so far this season, I'd still play Warberton ahead of him for Wales.

In the back's, it's pretty much as it was. Knoyle and Phillips both had good games, though I thought Knoyle shaded it on the night. Cooper was ok for the Blues, but his decision making is still shocking at times. The Battle for 10 is hotting up. Jones had the better first half, Biggar the second on Sat. Glad to see Byrne getting back to his old self. He was solid under the high ball, and hit the line extremely well. I know his pass was forward for Fussell's try, but that's a small mistake, the main thing was that he was there to make the try. I was slightly disapointed with Bishop, especially as he didn't have Jon Davies to compete against. Hook didn't have enough time to show if he's straight back up to speed.

DuncTheDoodle · Oct 4, 2010

I thought Mike Philips played well, and as such would probably start him with Rees on the bench for the first game, although I'd give Knoyle a shot against Fiji certainly. Rees provides a bit more fizz off the bench than either of the other two, so should stay there even if he's not playing as well (If, indeed, at all).

Ryan Jones was a huge improvement. JT was playing well, but everyone looked so much more organised when Ryan went to 8. Him not being there has to be part of the reason the Ospreys haven't played that well so far this season. For versitilty alone, JT can have a bench spot. I still think Lydiate is a touch above McCusker, JT and Turnbull when it comes to 6, as he seems to provide the best of both worlds- He's bigger and stronger than all three and just as fast as McCusker. Can't really comment on his work rate, but it seems consistantly as high as anyone elses.

Oh, and Yapp's had a number of shockers now- One more, and I think he could be making way for Bevvington. Bennett or Hibbard could yet force their way in, as well. Huw Bennett's Sidestep on Dan Evans had to be seen to be believed!

I think against SA, I'd go with-

Byrne, Halfpenny, Hook, Davies, Shane; Stephen Jones, Philips; Jenkins, Rees, Adam, AWJ, Davies, Lydiate, Williams/Warburton, Ryan Jones.

Bench- James, TR Thomas, Charteris, J Thomas, R Rees, A Bishop, C Czeaj

Not sure about 7. Wouln't mind either way. Biggar could be on the bench, too, but I felt that Hook or even Shane could offer some cover at 10, (I recall him slotting in for the Ospreys once for about half an hour in a HC game, I think it was against Leiecster a few years ago after a few injuries) and Bish could definatly shaw up the defence in the last few minutes.

dullonien · Oct 4, 2010

That 22 looks about spot on DuncTheDoodle. If Roberts is fit, then I'd have him instead of Bishop.

I was quite surprised with Bennett's performance when he came on v Scarlets. He was very, very good, probably the best I've ever seen him play. A couple more and he'll have forced his way back into the reckoning (although I doubt he's been out of the rechoning to Gatland).

Regarding the 7 position, I'd pick Warberton for two reasons. He needs gametime to show what he's trully capable of on the international scene. Williams needs to prove very little as his performances for the Blues show how age is effecting him. Secondly, as I said before, Wales simply need as many ball carriers as we can, Warberton offers that while Martyn doesn't.

I also feel we need to give some gametime to a backup 10 behind Stephen Jones. Wheather that's Biggar or Sweeney, I'm not fussed, but I feel it's essential to do so, and if the second test v NZ is anything to go by, Gatland thinks so to. I think Sweeney will get the nod for the Blues in the HC, so if he continues to play well there, I'd be tempted to go with him, but I think Gatland will stick with Biggar. For all his weaknesses, the lad is just 20, I think people tend to forget that. A couple of games in the AI's is worth a shot with Stephen on the bench.

DuncTheDoodle · Oct 4, 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrIOMFMk6uw

About 6:30, not 7:30 as the uploader suggests. Wow.

TRF_Cymro · Oct 4, 2010

People are ruling out Martyn Williams likes there is no tomorrow here. Got to say Dull, Martyn has outplayed Warburton when he been given a chance, personally Id do what the Blues are doing with them and have Williams on to start and bring Warburton into the game when the game has opened up.

For me Bennett can do what he wants at the mo, he needs a rocket up his arse, one game does not make him come back into automatic contention. Gatland will pick him but the way it sounds when I read some of the posts about him, he's the next best thing since slice bread.

Going back to Knoyle, I don't care if he's young the way he is hyped by the media, it seems he will be the next Lions number 9. I not really hyped up Lloyd Williams I just said he will be the next thing but he is raw, so until he sorted that out he wont play for Wales. Remember he has played more 7s than 15s! Also I get sick and tired of the Western Mail / Wales on Sunday finding excuses / praising the likes of Knoyle and Biggar when they ain't been that impressive.

cyRil · Oct 4, 2010

Dull, if you mention Lou Reed or Dominic Day once more I am gonna come to Aberystwyth and kick your ******* arse!!!

dullonien · Oct 4, 2010

Good thing I'm not there then

Not a fan dear Cyril?

Cymro, I'm not ruling out Martyn Williams atall. Infact quite the opposite. I feel he's got very little to prove, and could easily slot straight back into the lineup for the 6nations without being involved in the AI's. I'd of course give him some gametime in the AI's, but I'd give much more to Warberton in order to give him time to develop into the role at international level (pitty he couldn't do that in NZ). Both players will be needed during the 6nations and the WC too. What are your opinions about the differences between the Blues and Welsh backrow Cymro? Blues have a very dynamic and balanced backrow with Martyn Williams there, whearas I don't feel the same about the Welsh backrow with Williams there, just feel the balance is better with Warberton.

TRF_Cymro · Oct 4, 2010

dullonien said:
Good thing I'm not there then Not a fan dear Cyril?

Cymro, I'm not ruling out Martyn Williams atall. Infact quite the opposite. I feel he's got very little to prove, and could easily slot straight back into the lineup for the 6nations without being involved in the AI's. I'd of course give him some gametime in the AI's, but I'd give much more to Warberton in order to give him time to develop into the role at international level (pitty he couldn't do that in NZ). Both players will be needed during the 6nations and the WC too. What are your opinions about the differences between the Blues and Welsh backrow Cymro? Blues have a very dynamic and balanced backrow with Martyn Williams there, whearas I don't feel the same about the Welsh backrow with Williams there, just feel the balance is better with Warberton.

It all depends who Wales go with, as you said with a Dynamic backrow aka the Blues then Williams fits in, for Wales he probably not that man, but it depends also on who plays 6 for Wales, if you go Lydiate then id play Williams at 7, if you go JT then id play Warburton.

Welsh squad for the AI's.

International

First XV

Academy Player

Academy Player

Cymro The White

International

Cymro The White

Academy Player

First XV

English Arrogance

Cymro The White

International

International

First XV

International

First XV

Cymro The White

First XV

International

Cymro The White

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