Warm Up Match 5: Maori All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Rotorua)

[mosfeldt]

So angry this morning when I read about the replacements feeling a little better now sounded a good game on the radio.

Take it the ref had a shocker.....

Thought Peyper had one of his better games

 

[Nubiwan]

I am going to throw this out there for the NZ contingent, but I am really interested to see how Beauden Barrett will cope with the Lions line speed and pressure. Be very interesting. I can see him breaking tackles late on, but early in the games, I reckon he might well be the target of some pretty intense scrutiny. Well, he better be. Of course, you cant just concentrate on 10 against the ABS, but if you are able to nullify Barrett, then it takes some phase away from the ABS backs.

Lions have pretty well been able to stifle the opposition at times. Without necessarily winning or looking flash. Some decent opposition too. Going to be interesting to see how much of a step up the ABS provide for them.

Historically 24-12 for the ABS has been the average scoreline over the Lions. I see no reason to expect much different. Words I could well eat in 7 days time.

 

[MikeTheNative]

You haven't much chance with a midfield of 12. Won't pass 13. Can't pass.
I'm being harsh on Te'o - he's shown a strong offloading ability and the lack of passing is probably just the terrible support play. I'm not being harsh on Davies.

All centres have strengths and weaknesses I don't see why you pick a 12/13 combo that has the same of both. ALB and Williams are big lumps mind so your probably not going to run through them, that's why I think JJ should start.

 

[Nubiwan]

Players whose stock has risen:

Teo
Davies
(Not convinced that as a pair they have the right balance in attack, but individually both good and Warrenball being what it is they'll start I reckon)
Itoje
Furlong but he's nailed on already
POM

Stock has fallen:

Rob Howley
Rob Howley
Murray but he's nailed on already
Laidlaw and Biggar
Rob Howley

Not too convince by Howley then? Just my guess.

 

[Nubiwan]

I don't think it was genius, but the Lions played to their strengths today and it more than shut down a very creative team. They also played the conditions well. The pack is near ready. Thought Owens and George both really nailed the shirt down.

Are we holding back some backs moves to try and surprise the ABs. That might be the Lions coaching plan, but it's risky.

Last line "but its risky" is a f3cking beauty mate.......

 

[Reiser99]

Thought Peyper had one of his better games

If that's one of his better games then oh dear, because he was pathetic.

 

[Nubiwan]

Does anyone else not find it so cringey when Greenwood asks the NZ players to "tell the viewers back home how good these lions players are" - he's just resisting to say "they're going to get battered mate"

F3ck, I am just glad I do not have to listen to Northern Hem commentators. They generally butcher rugby games. The lads down under are a treat to listen to.

 

[Nubiwan]

So angry this morning when I read about the replacements feeling a little better now sounded a good game on the radio.

Take it the ref had a shocker.....

Radio mate? Its 2017.

 

[mosfeldt]

If that's one of his better games then oh dear, because he was pathetic.

Well him having a better game is the equivalent of drinking 10 pints of Guinness and not having runny, very smelly poos the next morning, just smelly poos.

 

[McTallshort]

Radio mate? Its 2017.

Do you know how much SKY sports is?! Plus the kids will only want to watch Moana which means watching another bloody Haka. Much better to go to the bottom of the garden with the radio.

Anyway followed the 93 series on the radio at some god forsaken time in the morning and enjoyed it.

 

[Nubiwan]

Do you know how much SKY sports is?! Plus the kids will only want to watch Moana which means watching another bloody Haka. Much better to go to the bottom of the garden with the radio.

Any followed the 93 series on the radio at some god forsaken time in the morning and enjoyed it.

That's just depressing me mate. More than the Lions inability to convert a line break. Sign of a die hard top fan nonetheless. You couldn't find an online feed? I reckon you just wanted to be tucked away in your shed for a couple of hours..... Come on - fess up.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

another really enjoyable game. the maori tried really hard and did a lot good, the lions were just far better.

 

[McTallshort]

That's just depressing me mate. More than the Lions inability to convert a line break. Sign of a die hard top fan nonetheless. You couldn't find an online feed? I reckon you just wanted to be tucked away in your shed for a couple of hours..... Come on - fess up.

Ok i admit it 2 hours away from the mad house is always welcome plus sometimes it's nice to listen to games on the radio and the wifi doesnt reach the bottom of the garden which is nice.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

As Lions fans, what can we really gather from that? Another makeshift opposition, with no games under their belts to speak of, but littered with a who's who of NZ provincial rugby, and one or two All Blacks (past, present, future). To be perfectly honest, the Maori put in a worse performance than the NZ Barbarians. They looked and played rather like the Lions did in their opener. 15 lads just chucked together last Wednesday. This Lions team, in contrast, has the luxury of 2-4 games of high intensity under their belts, and it showed. Lions benefiting from the rigours of 4 very tough previous contests.

Again, the Lions got out really strong from the kick off. Putting 10 or so phases together and come away with 3 points. They sure do restart well from their kick offs.

I mentioned how much I liked Kerr Barlow in a previous post, and tonight showed some of the reasons why he's just not a test option for the ABS. Ill discipline, was unnecessary, and rather cost his side 14 points. Not that it made much difference. There are some truly fine players in this Maori line up and they were all basically shut out. NMS indeed. 2 touches that I recall. Snuffed out otherwise. No small feat.

The real negative again is the Lions inability to convert tries inside the red zone. Certainly off long breaks by their backs. They just do not arrive at the resultant breakdown with enough intensity, and the best outcome has been 3 points from penalties.

You can probably bet several of the Lions will have secured test spots from this outing, when in truth, the opposition was in all fairness, the poorest we have come up against. You can now bank on Sexton and 1/2P for test spots, and I am not sure this game is the one they should be judged on, to be honest. Lions have had harder games on this tour.

The sort of game I would rather hoped we would have put together against all our previous opposition in the end, but been under much much more intense pressure from the opposition. The Lions were structured, disciplined, dominant, and clinical in the forwards. Some great line breaks and power running at times from centre, but nothing flash outside.

Essentially, that should be our starting pack for the test. Murray will be halfback. (Laidlaw will not see the bench IMHO - his passes are lame ducks). Sexton will now be 10, but really, it was his easiest game, and he's not coped when under pressure all that great. His last two games he's still played well. T'eo has really looked the part at 12. Can't see who is better. I think Davies will get the "welsh" vote from Gatland, when Joseph probably might have a case in more trying contests. Bit of a coin toss. Davies was good tonight, all the same. Wingers and Fullback, I am still not impressed at all. Tonight also secures 1/2Ps "welsh test nomination". Watson has been our best wing and fullback running threat. Compared to his last Lions tour, George North has underwhelmed.

Our inability to finish off chances is the biggest disappointment still. Tonight's match rather made it look like it is all coming together for the Lions, but the opposition was at sixes and sevens, and Lions were able to totally dominate them. Bodes well for a test against the ABS who will not have had this level of intense games behind them. Licking our lips for next Satdee? Perhaps. It might be our best chance to get a win, I would suggest.

I agree with a lot of this.

It doesn't say a whole lot for the game against the all blacks.

-I think the maori weren't particularly good on defence.
when the lions used the backs they were effective, but the defence wasn't great. they will have an opportunity against the all blacks midfield defence though.
one thing i disagree with you about is davies. i actually think he has attacked better than joseph. sure, he doesn't have the footwork, but he has the timing and the angles and the communication with his insides nailed a lot better than joseph (from this tour).

-the maori made mistakes and they gave away penalties, leading to the lions having all the possession.
yes, the lions were good at maintaining possession and creating pressure.
but i don't think the all blacks will feel the same pressure, though i do think they will feel some.
and i don't think the lions will be able to keep possession as easily against the all blacks. the all blacks will be able to catch the lions behind the gainline more often, and create the occasional turnover.

-the scrum was good against the maori. the maori were always going to struggle here. the maori scrum is nowhere near as good as the all blacks. i'm not saying the all blacks will win the scrum, its just hard to draw conclusions form this game.

-the lions mauls were very effective. it only takes a small difference in defensive ability to make a big difference at maul time, because it's all about momentum. the all blacks are much more likely to stop the momentum. i'd expect the lions will still use this as a weapon, it will just be less effective than it was tonight.

-the lions defence was very good.
yep, but the maori didn't really have the ball carriers to get go forward ball. retallick will make a big difference.
the all blacks coaches will have worked out some good tactics too.

there is no doubt the lions are a good team, it's just hard to judge quite how good at this stage.

north has done absolutely nothing good. unfortunately no-one else has either. maybe daly gets the start and north comes off the bench.

farrell has to start at ten i think, as defending barrett is key to success for the lions.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Well certainly wasn't pretty, but pretty much suffocated the NZ Maori. Back play was poor though. Just seem clueless. Whether that's coaching (looking at Howley and Farrell) and lack or skills (Te'o and Davies are there for their size and defence) or combo of both - Lions don't look like scoring tries, other than through the forwards.

honestly, i think it is more to do with not needing to use the backs. you can' stay the backs can't attack if they weren't given the ball and, when they were, they made the right decision to make it over the gainline, take contact, and maintain possession.

 

[Nubiwan]

I agree with a lot of this.

It doesn't say a whole lot for the game against the all blacks.

-I think the maori weren't particularly good on defence.
when the lions used the backs they were effective, but the defence wasn't great. they will have an opportunity against the all blacks midfield defence though.
one thing i disagree with you about is davies. i actually think he has attacked better than joseph. sure, he doesn't have the footwork, but he has the timing and the angles and the communication with his insides nailed a lot better than joseph (from this tour).

-the maori made mistakes and they gave away penalties, leading to the lions having all the possession.
yes, the lions were good at maintaining possession and creating pressure.
but i don't think the all blacks will feel the same pressure, though i do think they will feel some.
and i don't think the lions will be able to keep possession as easily against the all blacks. the all blacks will be able to catch the lions behind the gainline more often, and create the occasional turnover.

-the scrum was good against the maori. the maori were always going to struggle here. the maori scrum is nowhere near as good as the all blacks. i'm not saying the all blacks will win the scrum, its just hard to draw conclusions form this game.

-the lions mauls were very effective. it only takes a small difference in defensive ability to make a big difference at maul time, because it's all about momentum. the all blacks are much more likely to stop the momentum. i'd expect the lions will still use this as a weapon, it will just be less effective than it was tonight.

-the lions defence was very good.
yep, but the maori didn't really have the ball carriers to get go forward ball. retallick will make a big difference.
the all blacks coaches will have worked out some good tactics too.

there is no doubt the lions are a good team, it's just hard to judge quite how good at this stage.

north has done absolutely nothing good. unfortunately no-one else has either. maybe daly gets the start and north comes off the bench.

farrell has to start at ten i think, as defending barrett is key to success for the lions.

Indeed, what can we judge from a game when the opposition just wasn't up to the examination as previous sides have been. Lions are slowly improving their game nonetheless. My guess is it secured Lions test spots regardless. You are probably correct on Davies. My point was that he's going to start anyway. Same with Sexton. Sexton was decent tonight, against probably our weakest opponents. Agree on Farrell too, but I think this game just moved his best chance of a test start out to centre. No way he will start the first test. I'd be very surprised.

Apologies too all who read my drivel, but I just cannot get past the one eyed nature Gatland seems to possess throughout this Lions campaign. Stick my house in 1/2P getting a start, and he's kicked 6 goals from 30 yards on this tour. OK - he was a bit better tonight, but he carries no immediate threat otherwise.

For instance, will AWJ get a lock spot next weekend? I bet he doesn't start the next match.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I am going to throw this out there for the NZ contingent, but I am really interested to see how Beauden Barrett will cope with the Lions line speed and pressure. Be very interesting. I can see him breaking tackles late on, but early in the games, I reckon he might well be the target of some pretty intense scrutiny. Well, he better be. Of course, you cant just concentrate on 10 against the ABS, but if you are able to nullify Barrett, then it takes some phase away from the ABS backs.

Lions have pretty well been able to stifle the opposition at times. Without necessarily winning or looking flash. Some decent opposition too. Going to be interesting to see how much of a step up the ABS provide for them.

Historically 24-12 for the ABS has been the average scoreline over the Lions. I see no reason to expect much different. Words I could well eat in 7 days time.

the crusaders completely nullified barrett but the all blacks will have a plan. 24-12 sounds about right.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Radio mate? Its 2017.

Nothing wrong with the good old wireless!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I thought POM did a good job as captain today.

 

[Truth]

I am going to throw this out there for the NZ contingent, but I am really interested to see how Beauden Barrett will cope with the Lions line speed and pressure. Be very interesting. I can see him breaking tackles late on, but early in the games, I reckon he might well be the target of some pretty intense scrutiny. Well, he better be. Of course, you cant just concentrate on 10 against the ABS, but if you are able to nullify Barrett, then it takes some phase away from the ABS backs.

So many factors to consider with this but I think I can bring up the main points. Barrett is quick of the mark and is very agile, you can't just rush up on him and then miss because thats when Barrett starts running past people. It has to be effective pressure which brings me to my next point - it has to be legitimate. Defenders anticipating that pass to come out of the ruck and onto Barrett, need to time that. A line rushing up too late obviously leaves some space behind them for a chip and chase which I have seen Barrett do for himself. You got to put on effective pressure and you got to do it for as long as Barretts on the field. Thing is if you do contain him, Hansen will see that and probably bring on Cruden. To answer your query, I think he can cope with the pressure as he's played enough tests but putting pressure on him is easier said then done.