Wanted Competitions

[Teh Mite]

LOLS at the use of the word "trying"... i didn't try to use them as an example, I "did" use them as they are the only hard evidence anyone has of the comparison between ITM cup teams and the Northern Hemisphere. And just because they were crap doesn't mean they don't count..
It happened so it does count buddy.
These by the way, are our provincial teams without their All Blacks or NZ Maori representatives. If they had them in their squads the outcome could have possibly been even more embarrassing for the Northerners. So I really think you guys should consider giving our teams more credit than you are.. I'd like to see how the great Leicester Tigers or whoever you choose match up against the B&I Lions without their representative players.

Or even better, the All Blacks.

Tigers and Sarries did that last season. Both beat the Springboks during in the same season the Boks couldnt. I recall a VERY 2nd string looking Munster also hold a 2/3 All Blacks to a couple of points not too long ago also - Should be noted that for the Majority of that game, Munster were the much better team also.

I also remember the Waratahs and Western Force being sent home with their tails between their legs over the past couple of seasons. The only team from one of the tri nations countries to get one over a european club in recent times was when the Stormers beat Saracens.

Maybe it's about time you game the Northern club game a bit more credit instead of announcing how crap the teams up here are just because you feel threatened.

 

[Teh Mite]

Imagine if I used the arguments "they were **** therefore doesn't count", some fancy picture, "they're were an embarrassment", "don't feed the trolls" etc etc regarding the All Black exits from each world cup (bar '87). They aren't arguments are they? it would be just me minimising.

They'd be better then your current offering by sticking your fingers in your ears while singing "LA LA LA LA LA..."

 

[donmcdazzle]

Tigers and Sarries did that last season. Both beat the Springboks during in the same season the Boks couldnt.

Maybe it's about time you game the Northern club game a bit more credit instead of announcing how crap the teams up here are just because you feel threatened.

I think you mean All Blacks not 'Boks'? In which case sort of unfair comparison cause the Springbok team Sarries and Tigers played was vastly different to the Bok side the All Blacks played, plenty of second and third string players involved. Valid counter points though I guess as the midweek Lions teams in 05 weren't the test teams either.

I am not one who is out out to rubbish the quality of northern clubs, in fact I think they're good, lots of quality players involved; much like the ITM cup teams who i believe they are on par with.

 

[Tomsey]

Sorry to interrupt and return to the point of this topic...
Most of the competitions in the world have been listed here already except an Autumn/Spring tour which, would be a good addition to the new game. You could pick a team from either the 6 or tri-nations comps and your chose your opponents from the other hemisphere ie. it you chose to play as the All Blacks you could choose whether to play the home nations at an attempt for a grand slam or include France/Italy at the expense of one of the UK teams. Perhaps the option for midweek tests against club teams aswell...

 

[lynam1104]

I think the AI's would be too easy to be missed all the teams are there already can't be too hard to make.

 

[Teh Mite]

I think you mean All Blacks not 'Boks'? In which case sort of unfair comparison cause the Springbok team Sarries and Tigers played was vastly different to the Bok side the All Blacks played, plenty of second and third string players involved. Valid counter points though I guess as the midweek Lions teams in 05 weren't the test teams either.

I am not one who is out out to rubbish the quality of northern clubs, in fact I think they're good, lots of quality players involved; much like the ITM cup teams who i believe they are on par with.

That was supposed to say 'Blacks'.

Fair enough the they were understrength boks though, but Tigers were even loaning some semi-pro players from the lower leagues for their match. Still earned praise like:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/nov/06/leicester-tigers-south-africa
South Africa's assistant coach Dick Muir said he had never seen a Springbok front five so comprehensively outmuscled: "You can't play this game without any possession. We were poor at the breakdown and poor at set pieces so we couldn't get the game going. We just move on. We came over here with an experiment and perhaps it didn't come off as planned.
"I don't think I've ever seen [a South Africa pack] as bad as that, especially from a coaching perspective. We were given a bit of a lesson at the scrums. Hats off to the Tigers. They were incredibly strong in that department so we've got to go back to the drawing board."

Considering the usual attitude of the SA coaching staff, that's one hell of a compliment. Which is more then certain members on this board would ever do I imagine.

 

[Hurricane Nate]

Finally some good counter points, a pity they took so long. So there are arguments either way so hopefully HB take note and make a decision on all provincial level rugby together and not just include one or the other. I hope they don't play the numbers game and put in all of the NH comps just because they outnumber everyone else but that would be typical. NH already rule the rugby scene 'boardroom' they don't need to rule come rugby video games also haha.

 

[ranger]

Tigers and Sarries did that last season. Both beat the Springboks during in the same season the Boks couldnt. I recall a VERY 2nd string looking Munster also hold a 2/3 All Blacks to a couple of points not too long ago also - Should be noted that for the Majority of that game, Munster were the much better team also.

I also remember the Waratahs and Western Force being sent home with their tails between their legs over the past couple of seasons. The only team from one of the tri nations countries to get one over a european club in recent times was when the Stormers beat Saracens.

Maybe it's about time you game the Northern club game a bit more credit instead of announcing how crap the teams up here are just because you feel threatened.

Your points stand, but they aren't as compelling as they appear..
-The Springbok sides that played those test matches were shocking as mentioned. To say that they were the same side the All Blacks couldn't beat is stretching the truth quite a bit as they were player for player a different team
-The All Black side that played Munster was far from a 2/3rd side. They featured a whole host of one game All Blacks and debutants, it was captained by Piri Weepu who doesn't even captain his own super rugby team.
-There is a reason the Waratah and Western Force tours were called "development tours" the Force XV was captained by an 18 year old and their first five was 17..

Obviously the NH club sides are strong teams, but they aren't way up in the clouds looking down and laughing on the lowly ITM cup level. Some of those sides would give their NH counterparts a good game

 

[Teh Mite]

Your points stand, but they aren't as compelling as they appear..
-The Springbok sides that played those test matches were shocking as mentioned. To say that they were the same side the All Blacks couldn't beat is stretching the truth quite a bit as they were player for player a different team

Like I said: Tigers draughted in on-load semi-pros and used mostly Kids or 2nd/3rd choice players. The team was still called the 'Springboks", but "That doesn't matter"...

-The All Black side that played Munster was far from a 2/3rd side. They featured a whole host of one game All Blacks and debutants, it was captained by Piri Weepu who doesn't even captain his own super rugby team.

Off the top of my head, they included Rococoko, Jane, Weepu, Horsea Gear, Messam, Muliaina, Thorn & Flynn... Awful squad that. Don't

-There is a reason the Waratah and Western Force tours were called "development tours" the Force XV was captained by an 18 year old and their first five was 17..

And they played against various youth squads. And still had their butts handed to them before being packed off. ( I may add reading the old match reports, I'm reminded just how poor the Wanderers team was that thumped the Tahs. Force were considered a pre-season warm-up)

Obviously the NH club sides are strong teams, but they aren't way up in the clouds looking down and laughing on the lowly ITM cup level. Some of those sides would give their NH counterparts a good game

I don't recall ever saying they wouldn't.

 

[ranger]

Your points stand, but they aren't as compelling as they appear..
-The Springbok sides that played those test matches were shocking as mentioned. To say that they were the same side the All Blacks couldn't beat is stretching the truth quite a bit as they were player for player a different team

Like I said: Tigers draughted in on-load semi-pros and used mostly Kids or 2nd/3rd choice players. The team was still called the 'Springboks", but "That doesn't matter"...
Off the top of my head, they included Rococoko, Jane, Weepu, Horsea Gear, Messam, Muliaina, Thorn & Flynn... Awful squad that. Don't
And they played against various youth squads. And still had their butts handed to them before being packed off. ( I may add reading the old match reports, I'm reminded just how poor the Wanderers team was that thumped the Tahs. Force were considered a pre-season warm-up)

I don't recall ever saying they wouldn't.

-That tigers side was Captained by Aaron Mauger, its not as if they were completely depleted, although i have conceded that it was far from their top side. Also, while the side may have had the same name, all the players were different to the one that beat NZ. It doesn't take the shine off the Tigers victory, good on them. But if all the players are different then it really isn't the same side that beat the All Blacks if you see where im coming from.

-That All Black side included Alby Matthewson, Hika Elliot, Ben Franks, Scott Waldrom, Liam Messam and Jamie Macintosh on debut. It was only Hosea Gears 2nd and Corey Janes 3rd All Black game respectively. They played Anthony Tuitivake at centre, Ross Filipo at lock. Brad Thorn and Muliaina played 10 minutes at the end, some of those guys have never played again since that game.. It was still the All Blacks so well done to Munster for getting amongst it, but it was pretty much the worst and least experienced All Black outfit i can remember. To say it was a 2/3rd side is wrong.

-The Northhampton squad that played the Force looks pretty good to me. If that All Black side is 2/3 then that team certainly is. Besides that, the Force beat the Falcons and Saracens.
That Waratahs side is also full of no names. It is the NSW development XV. A country with 2146140 players will have more depth than a country with 84450 players. Australia has never had any depth and thats no secret, they sent their weak academy sides and they lost. That doesn't have much of a bearing on how their top sides would fare.

-You implied it. Or are you saying that some Aviva sides would get toppled by some All-Ireland teams?

 

[Teh Mite]

-You implied it. Or are you saying that some Aviva sides would get toppled by some All-Ireland teams?

Errr... What?

 

[ranger]

I don't expect HB to include the All Ireland League in the game, which is the ITM equivalent.

All Ireland League = ITM cup.
Ergo, If ITM cup teams can match up to their Aviva counterparts, then so can All Ireland league teams.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Didn't Billy Twelvetrees tear SA a new one in that match, despite it being approximately 12yrs old and on his debut*




*may be exaggerated for dramatic purposes

 

[Feicarsinn]

All Ireland League = ITM cup.
Ergo, If ITM cup teams can match up to their Aviva counterparts, then so can All Ireland league teams.

Eh, no it doesn't. The Irish league is an amature affair. Starting provincial players hardly ever play for their clubs, maybe once a season at most, and that's usually when coming back from injury. Crowds are susually in the 100's and the standard of rugby is pretty damn poor. To compare the two leagues is farcical. Silly arguement.

 

[Teh Mite]

It's the step below the provincial teams. That's how it is the equivalent.

If you interpret that as meaning the quality is equal between the pair, that your own stupid fault.

 

[Feicarsinn]

He implied that the quality was the same by saying that if ITM teams can put it up to Aviva teams then so can AIL teams, no?

Don't be so quick to jumping to insults.

 

[Teh Mite]

He implied that the quality was the same by saying that if ITM teams can put it up to Aviva teams then so can AIL teams, no?

Don't be so quick to jumping to insults.

No, he implied that I said that when trying to explain the level of the competitions HB are likely to go for. This started the whole "The ITM is better then the World Cup" exaggeration borefest this thread descended into.

 

[donmcdazzle]

It's the step below the provincial teams. That's how it is the equivalent.

It is hard to compare because super teams are combined provinces, NH doesnt really have the equivalent of that so it's difficult to say what they compare to. If the premiership teams combined somehow and made up 5 teams (thereby condensing the talent) then i think those teams would be the equivalent of NZ super teams. The way NZ rugby is tiered is completely different to the UK and/or Ireland so it's hard to compare them directly. I think a better way is to look at the overall calibre of player and quality of play and look at it that way rather than thinking both 2nd or 3rd or whatever tier of rugby are equal.

 

[donmcdazzle]

No, he implied that I said that when trying to explain the level of the competitions HB are likely to go for. This started the whole "The ITM is better then the World Cup" exaggeration borefest this thread descended into.

A bit of an exaggeration in itself because no one said it was better than anything; just that was the equal of the premiership.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Sigh, I don't think I really want to be a part of this thread.