Wales' Wildcards

[Maverick1987]

How does the 2 player Wildcards work in Wales team guys ?

A lot of talk about it since Faletaus move to bath

Evans touches on it here ....
http://www.skysports.com/share/10094363

 

[TommyVercetti]

How does the 2 player Wildcards work in Wales team guys ?

A lot of talk about it since Faletaus move to bath

Evans touches on it here ....
http://www.skysports.com/share/10094363

I'm assuming possibly if they have full release like North it doesn't really matter, maybe the two wildcard's are over for players who don't?

I would certainly imagine that more likely than Gatland being in a position come the 6N where he can only pick two of North, Roberts, Faletau and Charteris.

 

[SelimNiai]

Or he'll realise that, whilst decent in theory, it hasn't deterred players moving and there are players we can't not pick playing in England/France and scrap the idea

 

[Maverick1987]

Or he'll realise that, whilst decent in theory, it hasn't deterred players moving and there are players we can't not pick playing in England/France and scrap the idea

I guess it will be written in a deal with the regions though and presumably they will want to keep their relationship fairly amicable after the recent rows ....

 

[AzaMatt]

from what i understand (barely) any player who leaves a welsh team to play in another country would now need to be selected as a wildcard if they were to play for wales. so it will be a deterrent from now on as gatland can only pick 3 players outside of wales next season (who left after the whole NDC agreement came to place). where that gets even more complicated is if a player leaves to go to another country but was not offered a national dual contract, then gatland can select them without using a 'wildcard'. so currently the only players that would fall into a wildcard category would be Falatau, Priestland (who is on sabbatical anyways) and Roberts. players who extend their contracts like George North would not need a wildcard if they were not offered a contract with the WRU/regions. its certainly a crazy rule but with the right intentions. it will definitely need to be adjusted in future

 

[Tony Manx]

from what i understand (barely) any player who leaves a welsh team to play in another country would now need to be selected as a wildcard if they were to play for wales. so it will be a deterrent from now on as gatland can only pick 3 players outside of wales next season (who left after the whole NDC agreement came to place). where that gets even more complicated is if a player leaves to go to another country but was not offered a national dual contract, then gatland can select them without using a 'wildcard'. so currently the only players that would fall into a wildcard category would be Falatau, Priestland (who is on sabbatical anyways) and Roberts. players who extend their contracts like George North would not need a wildcard if they were not offered a contract with the WRU/regions. its certainly a crazy rule but with the right intentions. it will definitely need to be adjusted in future

So many exceptions one wonders if it is worth it especially if Gatland has the same option as Jones for special circumstances!!

 

[AzaMatt]

I'm assuming possibly if they have full release like North it doesn't really matter, maybe the two wildcard's are over for players who don't?

I would certainly imagine that more likely than Gatland being in a position come the 6N where he can only pick two of North, Roberts, Faletau and Charteris.

apprently charteris doesnt count as a wild card as he was not offered a deal by a welsh region or the WRU

 

[AzaMatt]

So many exceptions one wonders if it is worth it especially if Gatland has the same option as Jones for special circumstances!!

yea there are so many loopholes, if we had the player population then id love us to go down the same route as the RFU, play in wales to play for wales. however that is never going to happen as we are just too small a country

 

[j'nuh]

Gatland never wanted to stop players from playing overseas completely, because that would hamstring the national team, he just wanted full personal control over moves.

Right now, there's a group of players who count as exceptions because they were at their club before Gatland's Law came in. This group will whittle down over the years, through retirements and moves back to Wales and so on. So I think that the idea is that as this group gets smaller, the number of exceptions that Gatland is allowed to pick personally is going up. (Next year it is going up to three.) It will definitely reduce the number of international players playing outside of Wales though

I'm wondering what it might do for player relations. Effectively, you are granting special treatment to two players and prohibiting the same treatment for everyone else.

 

[AzaMatt]

I'm wondering what it might do for player relations. Effectively, you are granting special treatment to two players and prohibiting the same treatment for everyone else.

i can see how relations might be affected, but can you honestly say that Cuthbert (or pretty much any other player) would object if halfpenny was selected over him as a wild card. like it or not, some players are more important to wales than others, feel bad for the lads but thats professional sport i guess

 

[Maverick1987]

i can see how relations might be affected, but can you honestly say that Cuthbert (or pretty much any other player) would object if halfpenny was selected over him as a wild card. like it or not, some players are more important to wales than others, feel bad for the lads but thats professional sport i guess

It's not so much about that though is it . It's about a player saying "hang on a minute I've done everything asked of me and committed myself to Wales and I'm getting overlooked by a person who blatantly refused the WRU" I'm talking about Faletau vs King now by the way

 

[AzaMatt]

It's not so much about that though is it . It's about a player saying "hang on a minute I've done everything asked of me and committed myself to Wales and I'm getting overlooked by a person who blatantly refused the WRU" I'm talking about Faletau vs King now by the way

King is a great player to be fair, and very versatile. although Falatau is world class, it will be interesting to see whether he is dropped to the bench for some of the six nations to develop alternative options at number 8. at the moment our other 8 options are nowhere near his standard and he surely knows this hence why he has opted to move elsewhere. i wish that was not the case but he obviously realizes gats will still select him.

 

[valley commando]

The rule will be used or not used according to who Gat's wants to pick, that's Gatlands law, it will change dependant on who is where and when they are needed, in truth I think it's more of a veiled threat to stop youngsters moving outside of Wales.

 

[MojoPin]

As many have said, I think the rule applies more to fringe players. If you're not a regular starting XV player you need to be playing in Wales, and if you're up-and-coming then having an NDC or playing in Wales will greatly benefit your chance to get an opportunity with the national squad. One good example is Priestland - he wanted out of Wales but as deputy to Biggar with other NDC players breathing down his neck he knew he would be out of contention.

At the moment it seems we have two solid wildcards:
Jamie Roberts
Talupe Faletau (we assume)

And a lot of 'does-not-apply'/grey area:
Charteris - not offered anything so under no pressure to return
Halfpenny - signed with Toulon before the rule was put in place - BUT if he's offered anything for when his contract expires it could get tricky
Dom Day - not offered anything as far as I know
Matthew Morgan - not offered?
Owen Williams - everyone wants to see him play but he's turned down the Scarlets - remains to be seen
North - was he offered anything to return?
Francis - always been at Exeter so unless he's offered something I guess he's in with a shout, but at the expense of talent playing in Wales?
Moriarty - as above

It'll be interesting to see how this all shifts when the current run of signings comes to a close...

 

[Maverick1987]

As many have said, I think the rule applies more to fringe players. If you're not a regular starting XV player you need to be playing in Wales, and if you're up-and-coming then having an NDC or playing in Wales will greatly benefit your chance to get an opportunity with the national squad. One good example is Priestland - he wanted out of Wales but as deputy to Biggar with other NDC players breathing down his neck he knew he would be out of contention.

At the moment it seems we have two solid wildcards:
Jamie Roberts
Talupe Faletau (we assume)

And a lot of 'does-not-apply'/grey area:
Charteris - not offered anything so under no pressure to return
Halfpenny - signed with Toulon before the rule was put in place - BUT if he's offered anything for when his contract expires it could get tricky
Dom Day - not offered anything as far as I know
Matthew Morgan - not offered?
Owen Williams - everyone wants to see him play but he's turned down the Scarlets - remains to be seen
North - was he offered anything to return?
Francis - always been at Exeter so unless he's offered something I guess he's in with a shout, but at the expense of talent playing in Wales?
Moriarty - as above

It'll be interesting to see how this all shifts when the current run of signings comes to a close...

Keep your hands off Owen Williams !! He's basically a Leicester boy now !

 

[AzaMatt]

Keep your hands off Owen Williams !! He's basically a Leicester boy now !

ive got a feeling he will decide to play for england (international under 20's caps do not count do they?)

 

[Maverick1987]

ive got a feeling he will decide to play for england (international under 20's caps do not count do they?)

They do for wales because you don't have a second team like the Saxons . As for as I'm aware he's committed to Wales

 

[AzaMatt]

They do for wales because you don't have a second team like the Saxons . As for as I'm aware he's committed to Wales

ah i see, i couldnt remember what the situation was. he's still quite young so i cant see him being in any hurry to return to wales in order to play for the national side. although with all the loopholes in gatlands law he could be selected out of the blue whilst playing for tigers anyways, just like tom francis, dom day and ross moriaty were.

 

[dullonien]

They do for wales because you don't have a second team like the Saxons . As for as I'm aware he's committed to Wales

It's a bit more complicated than that. It only counts when Wales U20 play against another union who's nominated their U20 side as their second in line. France is the obvious one.

I'd still expect Williams to want to play for Wales though, so it probably doesn't matter. He's got a great chance in being involved in the 6nations imo.

As for the topic at hand, I think only Roberts and Faletau will count as wildcards, as both had firm offers on the table from a region/NDC, but chose an English club regardless.

Noth had no firm offers from within Wales. The Blues offer for Charteris apparently came after he signed.

Where it could get very interesting is next year if AWJ, Halfpenny and anyone else (e.g. Webb) opt for English/French clubs, as he'll still only have 3 wildcard choices.

Where I see Gatland's law really working well to draw players back is fringe players who are still pushing for international honours. The likes of Matthew Morgan, Bradley Davies etc. when their contracts expire. It'll put pressure on them to return to Wales, because they know they won't be selected as a wildcard ahead of others.

Anyone know if the rule will apply to players who haven't previously played in Wales. If a region offered a contract to say Francis or Moriarty when their current contracts expire, would they have to take Gatlands law into account, or is there another loophole?

 

[Tony Manx]

Everyone knows the "law" will be stretched so that Gatland gets the team he wants regardless... and why not?