Wales vs New Zealand

[darwin_23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DuncTheDoodle @ Nov 5 2009, 06:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

New Zealand team to face Wales

M Muliaina; C Jane, C Smith, M Nonu, Z Guildford; D Carter, B Leonard; W Crockett, A Hore, N Tialata; B Thorne, J Eaton; J Kaino, K Read, R McCaw.

Reps: C Flynn, O Franks, T Donnelly, A Thomson, J Cowan, S Donald, B Smith.[/b]

Six changes for the AB's from the Wallabies game, with a few surprises. Crockett and Guilford in for the suspended Woodcock and Sivivatu was predictable, as is the selection of Read over the badly out of form So'ioalo, given that Read was the first choice 8 by the end of the tri-nations. Kaino in for Thomson gives the loose forwards a more physical edge over Thomson (but with the loss of Thomson's mobility) - I assume Kaino is there to combat the physicality of Powell and Ryan Jones.

The two big surprises are the inclusion of Leonard over Cowan, and Eaton over Donnelly. When on from Leonard offers another dimension to the AB's attack with his speed from the base of he ruck, however he hasn't been able to play more than a few games in a row as he keeps getting injured, and hence is out of form. As wertas pointed out Cowan is a better passer, defender and kicker than Leonard - while I hope Leonard has a blinder I would feel a lot more comfortable with Cowan starting. Finally Eaton over Donnelly is another strange one give that Donnlelly has performed well in his first couple of games for the AB's - It seems to be a case of seeing whether Eaton is up to this level, and I don't think a test against Wales is the best place to find this out! Eaton's game has actually tightened up over the last few years, so his game is actually more suited for test rugby was when he burst onto the scene 3 or 4 years ago. Eaton will have to have a very strong game given the number of potential test locks sitting back in New Zealand (Ali Williams, Chris Jack, Isaac Ross, Bryn Evans).

 

[darwin_23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (amobokobokoboko @ Nov 5 2009, 08:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Looking decent, but why no Sitiveni Sivivatu or Roko?

Sorry, didn't had a look at the entire topic but Sitiveni had an awesome game last weekend in Toyko.[/b]

Sivivatu has been suspended for a week for a dangerous tackle, while Rococoko is hopeless so didn't even make the touring squad.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juan VdS @ Nov 5 2009, 08:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

:huh:

I wonder why they keep picking Tialata. With only a couple games on his back, Franks has proven worthy of being the starting tighthead.

Let's hope Kaino will not suffer of another brain fart that will lead to several penalties.[/b]

The inside word on Franks is that he has struggled at lineout time, particularly in the timing of the lifting. He's still very young so its something that can be sorted out. Tialata, while not that flash around the park has been doing the basics (Scrummaging, Lineout lifting) very well in his last couple of games.

 

[jawmalawm24]

I would of preferred having Carter on the bench because of him just overcoming his calf injury but than that's nullified because we'd have to put Donald at 10 and he sux balls.

Looks like a strong lineup not too many significant changes but it's gonna be awesome to see Guildford get a go with the All Blacks he already has international experience winning the Rugby World Cup under 20's so he should be alright.

Sivivatu should be out for the rest of tour, that tackle he did was intentional he didn't even look to be going for the ball and it was just stupid and reckless he's lucky to not have been given a red card.

Ben Smith on the bench, I wonder if he gets a game at least than we can hopefully see why the 3 wisemen picked him.

 

[darwin_23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jawmalawm24 @ Nov 5 2009, 10:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I would of preferred having Carter on the bench because of him just overcoming his calf injury but than that's nullified because we'd have to put Donald at 10 and he sux balls.

Looks like a strong lineup not too many significant changes but it's gonna be awesome to see Guildford get a go with the All Blacks he already has international experience winning the Rugby World Cup under 20's so he should be alright.

Sivivatu should be out for the rest of tour, that tackle he did was intentional he didn't even look to be going for the ball and it was just stupid and reckless he's lucky to not have been given a red card.

Ben Smith on the bench, I wonder if he gets a game at least than we can hopefully see why the 3 wisemen picked him.[/b]

Donald may yet start, as Carter not 100% - apparently didn't train with the team today (Donald spent the whole session running at 10). Hopefully he will be fine for the weekend as Donald is a huge step down.

As you say Guilford will not be overawed by the occasion, despite his young age (20) he has quite a bit of experience - he's been playing for Hawkes Bay since he was 17, Hurricanes since 18, and played (and won) two under 20 rwc finals. If the AB's have a bit of a lead Ben Smith will get some game time - he has the same sort of skills as Corey Jane who has be so successful this year for the AB's. If he gets a chance I think he will surprise people with just how good he is - if you can look exceptional at the end of Otago backline you have to be a pretty special player!

 

[Juggernaut]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juan VdS @ Nov 4 2009, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Let's hope Kaino will not suffer of another brain fart that will lead to several penalties.[/b]

Kaino.........brain fart.......several penalties.....WTF??? :huh:

I think it is you that suffers from the brain fart by mistaking Kaino for Thomson.

 

[Juan VdS]

I was talking about the Tri Nations games.

 

[Juggernaut]

so was I.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darwin_23 @ Nov 4 2009, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Nov 4 2009, 10:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope Wales utillise Jamie Roberts better than the way the Blues have been. He's been basically ignored for the Blues in the past few matches, touching the ball once or twice max. Maybe their trying to use him as a decoy, since he's bound to be heavily marked, but he shouldn't be left out of the game! He's the kinda player who can deal with being marked, he'll just go through two instead of one defender . Should be a great battle between him and Nonu in the centre.[/b]

I hope he never touches the ball the whole game - but then again I do support the AB's . In all seriousness I think he is easily the most dangerous player in the Welsh team, however I think he does need to be used correctly. He was so devastating for the Lions as he had O'Driscoll running off him - when the opposition fully committed to tackling Roberts there was space for O'Driscoll, and when they didn't fully commit to tackling Roberts he just broke through himself. Though Shanklin is a solid player at center I think Roberts would benefit in having an elusive player outside him. From set play I'd be tempted to have either Williams or Halfpenny running off his shoulder from depth in the midfield - while the AB's midfield defense is strong physically they (Nonu, Smith) don't have the speed off the mark to defend against players with the acceleration of Halfpenny or Williams if they are put into a half-gap by Roberts.

[/b][/quote]
Good post.

Both teams will probably want to use set piece just to spark things off, and prefer to concentrate on breakdown and turnover chances.

Roberts is a big help for Wales because he'll draw McCaw and still feed the ball back.

A lot of unfamiliar names in the ABs, so maybe Gatland will surprise and just keep driving it up the middle?

 

[darwin_23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Nov 5 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Good post.

Both teams will probably want to use set piece just to spark things off, and prefer to concentrate on breakdown and turnover chances.

Roberts is a big help for Wales because he'll draw McCaw and still feed the ball back.

A lot of unfamiliar names in the ABs, so maybe Gatland will surprise and just keep driving it up the middle?[/b]

What are Wales like at mauling? That is one tactic that the french used very effectively against the AB's at the start of the year, and may be an area the Welsh attempt to target the AB's. Running one off runners around the fringes is usually much less effective against the AB's, particularly with Kaino back in the team - you would be crazy to want to run into him!

 

[Nickdnz]

I was a bit disapointed that Donald was picked over both McAlister and Delany. Eaton over Donnelly is also a strange one. Over all I think that this team is enough to win. I'd like to see Ben Smith play perhaps against Italy, and a few other new faces, but at this point I believe the squad is pretty good.

 

[darwin_23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Nov 5 2009, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I was a bit disapointed that Donald was picked over both McAlister and Delany. Eaton over Donnelly is also a strange one. Over all I think that this team is enough to win. I'd like to see Ben Smith play perhaps against Italy, and a few other new faces, but at this point I believe the squad is pretty good.[/b]

MacAlister has only played about 2 games over the last three months due to injuries - I'm sure if he was match fit he would be selected on the bench ahead of Donald. I'd also prefer Delany on the bench rather than Donald, but the AB selectors seem to have a lot of faith in Donald (for some unknown reason).

 

[dullonien]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darwin_23 @ Nov 5 2009, 03:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

What are Wales like at mauling? That is one tactic that the french used very effectively against the AB's at the start of the year, and may be an area the Welsh attempt to target the AB's. Running one off runners around the fringes is usually much less effective against the AB's, particularly with Kaino back in the team - you would be crazy to want to run into him![/b]

I'd rate out rolling maul as average at best. It's never been a strong point of ours. Although it will probably be used from some linouts, I can't see us using it as a big tactic.

The better option for us will be to use Roberts, Shanklin, Powell and Ryan Jones in midfield to try and get over the gainline and create quick ball. Powell will also have free rign to snipe around the base of rucks, as that's one of his strong points. He has exceptionally quick feet and a great turn of speed, and that's what he needs to get back to, instead of trying to run through people and loose the ball!

Wales won't be chucking the ball around like headless chicken, like we used to. It's not Gatland's way. His game is based around generating quick ball after getting over the gain line. When or if that happens, that's when it will be spread wide to the likes of Williams, Hook and Halfpenny. Untill then, expect a constant pounding from the big lads.

It will be interesting if these tactics will have changed. Towards the end of the last 6 nations, the opposition were finding it easy to defend against. The prime example is that of Worsley tackling everything on or behind the gain line in midfield, nullifying Roberts. That day, and in subsequent games, we didn't seem to have a plan B. I'm hoping we'll mix it up alot more from now on.

For Wales, the linout is crucial. If we can secure good ball from that aspect and disrupt NZ's (down to you Charteris), it would be a great boost. Considering the opposite is likely to happen at scrum time, this would at least even up the set-pieces, giving us an equal share of the ball. Rees had better have his throwing hands on!

 

[danger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Nov 6 2009, 12:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darwin_23 @ Nov 5 2009, 03:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are Wales like at mauling? That is one tactic that the french used very effectively against the AB's at the start of the year, and may be an area the Welsh attempt to target the AB's. Running one off runners around the fringes is usually much less effective against the AB's, particularly with Kaino back in the team - you would be crazy to want to run into him![/b]

I'd rate out rolling maul as average at best. It's never been a strong point of ours. Although it will probably be used from some linouts, I can't see us using it as a big tactic.

The better option for us will be to use Roberts, Shanklin, Powell and Ryan Jones in midfield to try and get over the gainline and create quick ball. Powell will also have free rign to snipe around the base of rucks, as that's one of his strong points. He has exceptionally quick feet and a great turn of speed, and that's what he needs to get back to, instead of trying to run through people and loose the ball!

Wales won't be chucking the ball around like headless chicken, like we used to. It's not Gatland's way. His game is based around generating quick ball after getting over the gain line. When or if that happens, that's when it will be spread wide to the likes of Williams, Hook and Halfpenny. Untill then, expect a constant pounding from the big lads.

It will be interesting if these tactics will have changed. Towards the end of the last 6 nations, the opposition were finding it easy to defend against. The prime example is that of Worsley tackling everything on or behind the gain line in midfield, nullifying Roberts. That day, and in subsequent games, we didn't seem to have a plan B. I'm hoping we'll mix it up alot more from now on.

For Wales, the linout is crucial. If we can secure good ball from that aspect and disrupt NZ's (down to you Charteris), it would be a great boost. Considering the opposite is likely to happen at scrum time, this would at least even up the set-pieces, giving us an equal share of the ball. Rees had better have his throwing hands on!
[/b][/quote]

I think the big problem with Powell is that he just plays too loose, hes a great runner but he effectively reduces Wales to 7 forwards, which is not a good idea considering everyone in the ABs pack bar Wyatt Crocket have been vicious at the breakdown. Wales needs to get the ball before he can run with it

 

[Olyy]

I feel like a kid at christmas, i'm actually that excited for saturday

 

[dullonien]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danger @ Nov 5 2009, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think the big problem with Powell is that he just plays too loose, hes a great runner but he effectively reduces Wales to 7 forwards, which is not a good idea considering everyone in the ABs pack bar Wyatt Crocket have been vicious at the breakdown. Wales needs to get the ball before he can run with it[/b]

Completely agree. I'm sure there are very few people here who would have picked Powell to start, possibly on the bench as impact, but not start. Dafydd Jones has been paying superbly well (back to his 2004 best, where McCaw described him and Charvis as the toughest opposition he's ever played against), and fully deserved to start. He's been simply awesome this season for the Scarlets playing at 7. He's also been a good ball carrier, and would have complemented Martyn and Ryan in the backrow.

Gatland just seems to have a thing for Powell. Even when he was playing well last Autumn, he was still giving away stupid penalties, not getting involved in rucks etc. It was hard to ignore his running game though. But this season, his running game hasn't been that effective, and he's started doing stupid things, like attempt a drop goal from half way, or run with the ball in one hand (not under the arm even), which ended in a knock on. As soon as I got over the 'woooow look at him run' thing, I realised that he doesn't add anything else to the team. As you said, what's the point of a guy who can run if he never get's the ball, because Martyn is getting blown away at the rucks.

 

[bates]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darwin_23 @ Nov 5 2009, 04:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Nov 5 2009, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was a bit disapointed that Donald was picked over both McAlister and Delany. Eaton over Donnelly is also a strange one. Over all I think that this team is enough to win. I'd like to see Ben Smith play perhaps against Italy, and a few other new faces, but at this point I believe the squad is pretty good.[/b]

MacAlister has only played about 2 games over the last three months due to injuries - I'm sure if he was match fit he would be selected on the bench ahead of Donald. I'd also prefer Delany on the bench rather than Donald, but the AB selectors seem to have a lot of faith in Donald (for some unknown reason).
[/b][/quote]


Maybe they chose Donald owning to his preformance in the S14 this year. The games I saw he played a keyrole, according to the commentator. And he did help the Chiefs reach the Final against the Bulls

 

[SmokeyMonkey]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Nov 5 2009, 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

It will be interesting if these tactics will have changed. Towards the end of the last 6 nations, the opposition were finding it easy to defend against. The prime example is that of Worsley tackling everything on or behind the gain line in midfield, nullifying Roberts. That day, and in subsequent games, we didn't seem to have a plan B. I'm hoping we'll mix it up alot more from now on.[/b]

I'd have to disagree with this. Roberts took Worsley out of that game as much as he got taken out himself. England couldn't control the rucks without an openside, and got sin-binned twice and gave away too many costly penalties. We didn't need a plan B because plan A was actually paying off fine. Roberts deserved MotM as much as Worsley, but it really should've gone to Stephen Jones or Martyn Williams. England were going for damage limitation in that game. A better example would be Dusatoir and Ouedragao (sp.) in the France game. McCaw won't spend his time 'marking' Roberts. He'll actually win ball and pile on the pressure, which will be x100 times more valuable than 'treechopper' Worsley.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SmokeyMonkey @ Nov 6 2009, 05:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Nov 5 2009, 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It will be interesting if these tactics will have changed. Towards the end of the last 6 nations, the opposition were finding it easy to defend against. The prime example is that of Worsley tackling everything on or behind the gain line in midfield, nullifying Roberts. That day, and in subsequent games, we didn't seem to have a plan B. I'm hoping we'll mix it up alot more from now on.[/b]

I'd have to disagree with this. Roberts took Worsley out of that game as much as he got taken out himself. England couldn't control the rucks without an openside, and got sin-binned twice and gave away too many costly penalties. We didn't need a plan B because plan A was actually paying off fine. Roberts deserved MotM as much as Worsley, but it really should've gone to Stephen Jones or Martyn Williams. England were going for damage limitation in that game. A better example would be Dusatoir and Ouedragao (sp.) in the France game. McCaw won't spend his time 'marking' Roberts. He'll actually win ball and pile on the pressure, which will be x100 times more valuable than 'treechopper' Worsley.
[/b][/quote]
Someone's got to mark Roberts! Otherwise he'll make mincemeat of the midfield defence.

 

[cyRil]

Sorry if I've missed it, but who's the ref?

 

[danger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Nov 6 2009, 07:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SmokeyMonkey @ Nov 6 2009, 05:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Nov 5 2009, 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It will be interesting if these tactics will have changed. Towards the end of the last 6 nations, the opposition were finding it easy to defend against. The prime example is that of Worsley tackling everything on or behind the gain line in midfield, nullifying Roberts. That day, and in subsequent games, we didn't seem to have a plan B. I'm hoping we'll mix it up alot more from now on.[/b]

I'd have to disagree with this. Roberts took Worsley out of that game as much as he got taken out himself. England couldn't control the rucks without an openside, and got sin-binned twice and gave away too many costly penalties. We didn't need a plan B because plan A was actually paying off fine. Roberts deserved MotM as much as Worsley, but it really should've gone to Stephen Jones or Martyn Williams. England were going for damage limitation in that game. A better example would be Dusatoir and Ouedragao (sp.) in the France game. McCaw won't spend his time 'marking' Roberts. He'll actually win ball and pile on the pressure, which will be x100 times more valuable than 'treechopper' Worsley.
[/b][/quote]
Someone's got to mark Roberts! Otherwise he'll make mincemeat of the midfield defence.
[/b][/quote]

Jeez you guys do everything topsy-turvy up there. In NZ the 2nd five is marked by the opposite 2nd five.

I think we will have him covered, Ma'a Nonu isnt the type to be intimidated or ran over.

Hes got one 2 of the most reliable defenders in the country either side of him incase he needs help. Thats not even mentioning Keiran Read who has a workrate that rivals an orphan sweatshop worker, expect a huge tackle count from him.

Richie might come help out if he feels like aswell