Wales vs New Zealand

[Juan VdS]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

We (SA) have the best forward, though and that's what matters; backline only determines the margin.
1 SA (7/8) could be 8 if we get an actual tighthead in
2 NZ (6.5/8)
3 Fra (6/8)
4 Ire (6/8)
5 Wal (5.5/8)
6 Eng (5.5/8)
7 Aus (5/8)[/b]

Where is Argentina?! With all the injuries our pack looks weaker but if we had the chance to field in our best forwards then we'd be well above Australia, England, Wales, Ireland and France in terms of proficiency and power.

The loss of Adam Jones is huge. Just huge. And with Powell around, the Welsh might be in for a hiding if they don't work well at the breakdown. You can have the world's finest backline, but if you don't get the ball...

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danger @ Nov 3 2009, 03:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

"Worst team in god knows how long?" no they arent.[/b]

Wrong, I said worst season. When was the last time you lost to a NH team at home? 2003, I think.

And someone said we had the world's best backline? Hmm....

 

[stormer2010]

Worked out those points for what their worth by giving players either a .5 if average, 1 if class and very rarely 1.5 if I think they add that much extra individually (ie Carter/O'Driscoll). Combinations etc not really featured unless I was undecided between a .5 or 1.

In the case of Wales, I gave the back row .5s all round because I (and I stand corrected) counted the current Wales back row by a combination of forgetfulness, haste and ignorance on the current form of certain players.

Woodcock hasn't been what he was in 2008. Jamie McIntosh is just plain huge but he might not dominate a more technical scrumger. Wouldn't really know, though, as I didn't really follow the games the Highlander played in this S14 season.

 

[jawmalawm24]

Not sure when the All Blacks starting lineups announced but I think if Tarms wasn't injured they'd put him in at 11 in front of Guildford only because Tarms has been waiting a bit longer than him. Another change will probably be Owen Franks coming on for Woodcock and Afoa on the bench.

I was just watching last years game against Wales and gees that Jonathan Davies is a whinging mongrel. Legend of a player but for the last 15-20min of the game he kept going on about how Cowan put the ball into the scrum and our hooker doesn't strike. I know it's against the rules but when your scrums pushing the opposition that much you'd have to throw it at their feet just so it ends up in the middle.

If Wales can play the same or better than they did last year it'll be a good game because the first 50min were pretty intense but than they just kept kicking the ball back to us like they didn't want it even thou they had good chances in their backline.

 

[bates]

Ready for the game, huge supply of beer and snacks. hopefully the AB win it so I can continue the partying on Saturday

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juan VdS @ Nov 4 2009, 03:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

We (SA) have the best forward, though and that's what matters; backline only determines the margin.
1 SA (7/8) could be 8 if we get an actual tighthead in
2 NZ (6.5/8)
3 Fra (6/8)
4 Ire (6/8)
5 Wal (5.5/8)
6 Eng (5.5/8)
7 Aus (5/8)[/b]

Where is Argentina?![/b][/quote]
In a big competition once every four years. Shouldn't be the way, but it is.

 

[Infern0]

I'm rooting for Wales all the way in this one but sadly them winning is pretty unlikley, however I belive that there is enough class in the team that if you guys start fast and play relentless rugby for 80 minutes you can do it.

Good Luck Wales!!!!!

 

[dullonien]

I hope Wales utillise Jamie Roberts better than the way the Blues have been. He's been basically ignored for the Blues in the past few matches, touching the ball once or twice max. Maybe their trying to use him as a decoy, since he's bound to be heavily marked, but he shouldn't be left out of the game! He's the kinda player who can deal with being marked, he'll just go through two instead of one defender . Should be a great battle between him and Nonu in the centre.

 

[darwin_23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Nov 4 2009, 10:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I hope Wales utillise Jamie Roberts better than the way the Blues have been. He's been basically ignored for the Blues in the past few matches, touching the ball once or twice max. Maybe their trying to use him as a decoy, since he's bound to be heavily marked, but he shouldn't be left out of the game! He's the kinda player who can deal with being marked, he'll just go through two instead of one defender . Should be a great battle between him and Nonu in the centre.[/b]

I hope he never touches the ball the whole game - but then again I do support the AB's . In all seriousness I think he is easily the most dangerous player in the Welsh team, however I think he does need to be used correctly. He was so devastating for the Lions as he had O'Driscoll running off him - when the opposition fully committed to tackling Roberts there was space for O'Driscoll, and when they didn't fully commit to tackling Roberts he just broke through himself. Though Shanklin is a solid player at center I think Roberts would benefit in having an elusive player outside him. From set play I'd be tempted to have either Williams or Halfpenny running off his shoulder from depth in the midfield - while the AB's midfield defense is strong physically they (Nonu, Smith) don't have the speed off the mark to defend against players with the acceleration of Halfpenny or Williams if they are put into a half-gap by Roberts.

 

[dullonien]

Yup, I agree with you. There's no reason that the wings can't come into the centre to offer the finishing. Shanklin is a decent player (don't rate him as highly as I used to), and can bash some holes aswell, but I don't think he's the right man to partner Roberts. However other than shoving Jonathan Davies in at the deep end (we'll see how he goes against Argenitina and Samoa), Shanks was the best option for this game, especially as Hook's at fullback. Robert's long term partner has yet to be dicided, and although I do believe Davies will fill that role come the Aus game, he's probably still not the ideal kind of player. That would probably be someone like the young Gareth Owen at the Ospreys who is true all round talent. Or there's always Hen..................

Wonder if we'll get to see Jonathan Davies this saturday? Quite excited to see how he goes against the quality of NZ. He seems to have sorted his defensive shortfalls, and certainly known his way to the tryline. Might be nice to see 'Scott Gibbs with hands' line up alongside the 'human wrecking ball with hands'.

 

[danger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stormer2010 @ Nov 4 2009, 06:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Worked out those points for what their worth by giving players either a .5 if average, 1 if class and very rarely 1.5 if I think they add that much extra individually (ie Carter/O'Driscoll). Combinations etc not really featured unless I was undecided between a .5 or 1.

In the case of Wales, I gave the back row .5s all round because I (and I stand corrected) counted the current Wales back row by a combination of forgetfulness, haste and ignorance on the current form of certain players.

Woodcock hasn't been what he was in 2008. Jamie McIntosh is just plain huge but he might not dominate a more technical scrumger. Wouldn't really know, though, as I didn't really follow the games the Highlander played in this S14 season.[/b]

The word is that Woodcocks replacement will be Wyatt Crockett, the Crusaders loosehead. He a taller more athletically built prop in the Carl Hayman mold. He doesnt generally have a massive workrate around the field, but he is a beast of a scrummager.
If the All Blacks also decide to play the 22 year old prodigy Owen Franks on the tighthead, then things could get ugly.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Nov 4 2009, 06:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danger @ Nov 3 2009, 03:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"Worst team in god knows how long?" no they arent.[/b]

Wrong, I said worst season. When was the last time you lost to a NH team at home? 2003, I think.

And someone said we had the world's best backline? Hmm....
[/b][/quote]

A 5 point loss without Carter and McCaw, who have both been cleared to play against Wales, is nothing to get excited about.

Best backline is infinitely debatable.

 

[Juggernaut]

Yeah, Crockett is tipped to start at LH this week with Tialata remaining at TH. Afoa will be on the bench as he can cover both positions.

Would be a massive mistake if we run out two inexperienced front-rowers agaisnt the Welsh.

 

[danger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juggernaut @ Nov 4 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yeah, Crockett is tipped to start at LH this week with Tialata remaining at TH. Afoa will be on the bench as he can cover both positions.

Would be a massive mistake if we run out two inexperienced front-rowers agaisnt the Welsh.[/b]

I think "experience" is overrated. Owen Franks has shown more in his few games than Tialata has his whole career. Tialata is the most frustrating player to watch because he was so much raw talent and potential but has never followed through on it.

I think we could afford to put those two out, they are provincial team mates with half the forward pack anyway. And just because its "the Welsh" doesnt mean we should be weary of their front row. i cant see Paul James being anything more than a speedbump, he had a million years between test caps for a reason - he isnt very good.

 

[Nickdnz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danger @ Nov 4 2009, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juggernaut @ Nov 4 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, Crockett is tipped to start at LH this week with Tialata remaining at TH. Afoa will be on the bench as he can cover both positions.

Would be a massive mistake if we run out two inexperienced front-rowers agaisnt the Welsh.[/b]

I think "experience" is overrated. Owen Franks has shown more in his few games than Tialata has his whole career. Tialata is the most frustrating player to watch because he was so much raw talent and potential but has never followed through on it.
I think we could afford to put those two out, they are provincial team mates with half the forward pack anyway. And just because its "the Welsh" doesnt mean we should be weary of their front row. i cant see Paul James being anything more than a speedbump, he had a million years between test caps for a reason - he isnt very good.
[/b][/quote]
I thought he was frustrating to watch because he tries to side step small players...

 

[danger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Nov 4 2009, 08:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danger @ Nov 4 2009, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juggernaut @ Nov 4 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, Crockett is tipped to start at LH this week with Tialata remaining at TH. Afoa will be on the bench as he can cover both positions.

Would be a massive mistake if we run out two inexperienced front-rowers agaisnt the Welsh.[/b]

I think "experience" is overrated. Owen Franks has shown more in his few games than Tialata has his whole career. Tialata is the most frustrating player to watch because he was so much raw talent and potential but has never followed through on it.
I think we could afford to put those two out, they are provincial team mates with half the forward pack anyway. And just because its "the Welsh" doesnt mean we should be weary of their front row. i cant see Paul James being anything more than a speedbump, he had a million years between test caps for a reason - he isnt very good.
[/b][/quote]
I thought he was frustrating to watch because he tries to side step small players...
[/b][/quote]

Thats my point. He has so much power but doesnt use it. If Tony Woodcock had the strength and raw power of Tialata there would be broken spines.

 

[dullonien]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danger @ Nov 4 2009, 04:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I cant see Paul James being anything more than a speedbump, he had a million years between test caps for a reason - he isnt very good.[/b]

Sounds about right...

He has however got a huge amount of experience at regional level, against some top opposition. I'm quick to judge Paul James, because he's not a great all round player, but he usually scrums pretty well (on the looshead). The Ospreys scrum is let down by Cai Griffiths on the tight. Gatland must have faith that he can hold up the scrum, otherwise he would have given in and picked Gethin Jenkins there instead.

We'll have to wait and see what happens, but I wouldn't be surprised if the scrum wasn't as big a deal as everyone is making out. On the other hand, it may go backwards at a rate of knots, it's hard to know.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

New Zealand team to face Wales

M Muliaina; C Jane, C Smith, M Nonu, Z Guildford; D Carter, B Leonard; W Crockett, A Hore, N Tialata; B Thorne, J Eaton; J Kaino, K Read, R McCaw.

Reps: C Flynn, O Franks, T Donnelly, A Thomson, J Cowan, S Donald, B Smith.

 

[wertas]

Leonard - starting scrum-half??? J.Cowan much better passer, defender and kicker.

 

[Juan VdS]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DuncTheDoodle @ Nov 4 2009, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

New Zealand team to face Wales

M Muliaina; C Jane, C Smith, M Nonu, Z Guildford; D Carter, B Leonard; W Crockett, A Hore, N Tialata; B Thorne, J Eaton; J Kaino, K Read, R McCaw.

Reps: C Flynn, O Franks, T Donnelly, A Thomson, J Cowan, S Donald, B Smith.[/b]

:huh:

I wonder why they keep picking Tialata. With only a couple games on his back, Franks has proven worthy of being the starting tighthead.

Let's hope Kaino will not suffer of another brain fart that will lead to several penalties.

 

[bates]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DuncTheDoodle @ Nov 4 2009, 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

New Zealand team to face Wales

M Muliaina; C Jane, C Smith, M Nonu, Z Guildford; D Carter, B Leonard; W Crockett, A Hore, N Tialata; B Thorne, J Eaton; J Kaino, K Read, R McCaw.

Reps: C Flynn, O Franks, T Donnelly, A Thomson, J Cowan, S Donald, B Smith.[/b]

Looking decent, but why no Sitiveni Sivivatu or Roko?

Sorry, didn't had a look at the entire topic but Sitiveni had an awesome game last weekend in Toyko.