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Wales vs BaaBaas

We will be wasting the match if we put out establish players ahead of giving others a shot.

Totally agree with that, whoever plays in that match, from the Dragons or not, they've got to be players either with a point to prove after previous bad performances or new fresh players wanting to show what they can do
 
I'm liking that team you've picked their mate but its theres a worrying lack of Dragons players in the squad and Gatland needs to start addressing that. As arguably the most attacking and exciting Welsh team at the moment I think there should be a few more Dragons players involved in the Welsh set-up and what better opportunity than against the Barbarians:

Jason Tovey - Definitely needs to be given a chance, Gatland gave Biggar a chance and I personally don't think he evr should have been given the chance for Wales as I find him too cocky and I don't think he can always back it up on the field (though he has improved and looked better in this half of the season). But my point is Tovey imo is better. His versatility (as he is able to play fullback and in the centre) is also a plus point and I think his performances do justify a call-up.

Aled Brew - The most in-form welsh winger around as it stands, he is solid and hell of a unit but also has good pace and a real handful to deal with. Previously his handling and finishing hasn't been up to the required level but he is looking a hell of a player now and the fact that hes scored 16 tries this season shows he is playing well. the try he scored against the Ospreys 2 weeks or so ago when he left Hook for dead really sums him up as a player, fantastic try and potentially brilliant player. At 26 he is still relatively young and has a future in the Welsh jersey.

Ashley Smith - I've been arguing my case on the forums here for Ashley Smith for well over a year now and everyone says hes too young/too inexperienced etc etc. I think now its time to give him a chance as he is a great player and I think he could be a great player at national level.

Toby Faletau - Probably the most deserving out of anyone, he has been the stand out number 8 in Wales this season, with several MOTM performances. He is strong and exciting in attack and his defence is excellent also. Very unlucky not to have been capped in the Six Nations when he was injured but I think we should cap him before Tonga beat us to it!

Luke Charteris (as you mentioned) - Nothing spectacular this season but does his job well and has plodded along nicely in the Magners without attracting too much attention. Worth a shot as mentioned.

I could mention several more Dragons players but I would just come across as being really bias but I honestly think that the players mentioned above should be thrown into the selection mix for the Barbarians match as well as the friendlies before the World Cup.

I certainly agree with what you are saying. The Dragons have really upped their game, and aren't many players away from being a real force next season (although strength in depth is always an issue for them). They're playing a great brand of rugby which is really allowing them to show their skill.

Of the player you mentioned, here's my personal take on them:

Tovey - had a bit of a dip of form midway through the season, but he's been superb recently. His attacking game is excellent. He has his weaknesses, namely in defensy (although I've not seen much evidence of that recently), and his goal kicking which can be sporadic at best and downright poor on occasion. However if one of Hook or Halfpenny are in the starting IV then he doesn't necessarily have to have the kicking duties. Certainly a better option than Biggar, and I think most people have known that for quite a while. For me it's between him, Robinson and Priestland, and all have similar strengths and weaknesses.

Brew - certainly deserves another chance ahead of the likes of Czekaj, Tom James etc.Whilst he wasn't great in his last outing for Wales, he wasn't terrible either, and didn't really have much of a chance to show what he's capable of. Again he has his weaknesses, but his strengths more than make up for that. He's always been a fovourite of mine due to the commitment he shows in every game he plays. He just needs to make the step-up to international level, something he's never quite managed in the past, but at just 26, he's got time to do so.

Smith - I'm not sure about this one. Ashley Smith is a decent enough player, but he's never really left me thinking wow in the same way Hook, Henson, Roberts and Davies have on occasion. He's a solid player in the Shanklin and Bishop mould, which isn't a bad thing really. With the lack of on-form centres at the moment, he's certainly in the running, but that possibly shows the lack of depth we currently have there, instead of him really earning the right through a consisten run of good games. Too close to the WC to start looking at an un-capped player like Smith who hasn't really been a stand-out player in many games recently imo.

Faletau - yes, yes and yes again. He's just getting better and better. Awesome player in just about every way. Reminds me of Parisse in the way he's equally adept and carrying ball and making it over the gainline and running in open field, making breaks and putting people in space. Great cover tackler aswell. Gotta admit, I'm also excited to see a backrow of Lydiate, Warburton and Faletau (with Ben Morgan joining the mix after the WC). Inexperiences, yes. Great potential, certainly!

Charteris - He's still not playing to his potential since injury. Very quiet in most of the games I've seen him play recently. However second-row is another position where were short of propper in-form players at the moment. Alun-Wyn and Bradley are first choice, but behind them we've got Charteris and Ian Evans, both struggling for form after long injury layoffs, Gough who's maybe past his best at international level, and two backrowers come locks come backrowers. I honestly don't know who's the best option.

You don't come acorss as being biased atall. All those mentioned are certainly in the mix, and I'd add Adam Hughes and Wayne Evans to the list aswell.
 
Brew is 24, not 26. He certainly deserves a chance, in at least one of the warm-up games. He could possibly do anymore to try and force his way into the team. I would be very disapointed if Faletau doesn't start at least against Namibia in the World Cup, again, he's been in awesome form and is currently the best No. 8 in Wales. Tovey is in form as Priestland was just before the 6N, although part of me would rather see Priestland given more caps so we've got another Fullback, as Tovey is now an out-and-out 10 if you ask me. However, Tovey is certainly the form man, but it would feel odd to throw him in now, even though he deserves it, Same (But to a lesser extent) with Smith.
 
I certainly agree with what you are saying. The Dragons have really upped their game, and aren't many players away from being a real force next season (although strength in depth is always an issue for them). They're playing a great brand of rugby which is really allowing them to show their skill.

Of the player you mentioned, here's my personal take on them:

Tovey - had a bit of a dip of form midway through the season, but he's been superb recently. His attacking game is excellent. He has his weaknesses, namely in defensy (although I've not seen much evidence of that recently), and his goal kicking which can be sporadic at best and downright poor on occasion. However if one of Hook or Halfpenny are in the starting IV then he doesn't necessarily have to have the kicking duties. Certainly a better option than Biggar, and I think most people have known that for quite a while. For me it's between him, Robinson and Priestland, and all have similar strengths and weaknesses.

Brew - certainly deserves another chance ahead of the likes of Czekaj, Tom James etc.Whilst he wasn't great in his last outing for Wales, he wasn't terrible either, and didn't really have much of a chance to show what he's capable of. Again he has his weaknesses, but his strengths more than make up for that. He's always been a fovourite of mine due to the commitment he shows in every game he plays. He just needs to make the step-up to international level, something he's never quite managed in the past, but at just 26, he's got time to do so.

Smith - I'm not sure about this one. Ashley Smith is a decent enough player, but he's never really left me thinking wow in the same way Hook, Henson, Roberts and Davies have on occasion. He's a solid player in the Shanklin and Bishop mould, which isn't a bad thing really. With the lack of on-form centres at the moment, he's certainly in the running, but that possibly shows the lack of depth we currently have there, instead of him really earning the right through a consisten run of good games. Too close to the WC to start looking at an un-capped player like Smith who hasn't really been a stand-out player in many games recently imo.

Faletau - yes, yes and yes again. He's just getting better and better. Awesome player in just about every way. Reminds me of Parisse in the way he's equally adept and carrying ball and making it over the gainline and running in open field, making breaks and putting people in space. Great cover tackler aswell. Gotta admit, I'm also excited to see a backrow of Lydiate, Warburton and Faletau (with Ben Morgan joining the mix after the WC). Inexperiences, yes. Great potential, certainly!

Charteris - He's still not playing to his potential since injury. Very quiet in most of the games I've seen him play recently. However second-row is another position where were short of propper in-form players at the moment. Alun-Wyn and Bradley are first choice, but behind them we've got Charteris and Ian Evans, both struggling for form after long injury layoffs, Gough who's maybe past his best at international level, and two backrowers come locks come backrowers. I honestly don't know who's the best option.

You don't come acorss as being biased atall. All those mentioned are certainly in the mix, and I'd add Adam Hughes and Wayne Evans to the list aswell.

Cheers for the answer mate, glad to know that I didn't come across as a biased Dragons fan and that I made a valid case with the players I've picked out.

Totally agree with what you said about Tovey, he has had his dips in form this season but for the most part of the season he has been excellent and is definitely going to be top class for Wales soon given the chance. He has an excellent understanding with Brew and I think at national level we could exploit teams with it (smaller teams like Namibia at the very least) as the understanding between the 2 is excellent and I think its quite rare these days for a flyhalf and wing to understand each other so well. I can't help but feel sorry for Tovey because he had an opportunity to play for Wales in the North America Tour 08 at just 19 but was prevented because of the Dragons playing in a Heineken play off match, so had this not been the case then he could have a few caps under his belt already. His versatility is also something that will count in his favour for World Cup selection (provided that Gatland decides to have a look at him in the friendlies that is) and at 22 has plenty of time to perfect his game and work on the weaknesses in his game.

Brew - As I've already said and as you've said he does deserve another chance and he along with George North is exactly the kind of player that we need when we play the big physical sides like the Samoans and Fijians, we will need our bigger players like Roberts, AB and GN to front up against these teams if we are to avoid a repeat of 2007 in France. He is in red hot form (top welsh try scorer in the Magners League this season) and is greatly benefiting from the type of rugby we play at the Dragons and is also developing an understanding with all the young welsh players who are at the Dragons and who are likely to make the step-up to the Welsh squad in the near future. Also at 24 (not 26 like I said before) he is young and has plenty of time to improve aspects of his game which aren't quite as good. Just to reiterate he will be vital against the likes of Samoa and Fiji and is a breath of fresh air compared to all the little wingers (not that theres anything wrong with them) that we at Wales have at our disposal like Williams, Harries, Halfpenny etc as there are not too many big welsh wingers around.

Ashley Smith - Dull I do take your point that he has never exactly wowed you but my best way of explaining him as a player is that he is very much like a forward in the sense that he is quite undervalued and much of his hard work goes unnoticed as he doesn't quite get the credit he deserves for the performances that he gives. I would disagree with your point it exposes Wales' lack of depth rather than Smith himself earning a spot through a decent run of games because he actually play at a very good and consistent level but as I said above as he doesn't do the spectacular he doesn't get noticed as much but he has been playing at a very consistent and good level bar a few injuries that hes had. Hes definitely worth a shot if not now then immediately after the World Cup.

Toby Faletau - 100% deserves his place and I'm disappointed that he is yet to pull on the Welsh jersey as he is the future at Number 8 (as well as Ben Morgan as you mentioned, I only hope that England don't call him up before he qualifies for us because he could be awesome) alongside Dan Lydiate and Sam Warburton and the likes of Josh Turnbull and Tupiric, the future looks bright for Wales, at least in the pack! I played a few games with Toby when I was about 15/16 for Torfaen Tigers (Rugby League) and he was massive then but never looked too special, though hes really improved and looks an excellent player.

Charteris - I agree hes still not back to his best since injury but he does deserve a chance as none of our second-row options have been wowing us this season to be honest and what an option he is at the line-out. I remember when he last played for Wales he put in a decent enough shift and he could still be good for Wales. As far as Goughy goes as good as hes been I do think Wales have got to look to the future as we've got more than enough options at second-row who are better and younger such as Bradley Davies, Alun-Wyn, Ian Evans (if he can get back to his best) Charteris etc etc.

And yes Dull I did want to give these to a mention as well but as I said din't want to come across too much pro-Dragons but Wayne Evans has been playing really well this season and put in an excellent performance against the Blues last Friday so I think while the other welsh scrum-halves haven't exactly been plating too well recently hes taken advantage of this and played really well, he surely must be in Gatland's thoughts.

I've known Adam Hughes for quite a while as he lives just up the road from me and was my cousin's best friend from school. He has definitely stepped up when there were injuries in the Dragons team and taking his chances well cementing his place in the Dragons team. He is very quick and finishes well so if Gatland was before willing to select the likes of Tom Prydie (no disrespect to him) when he was mainly playing in the Welsh Prem then you'd think he'd give Adam Hughes a chance who has been playing consistently well in his first full season in the Magners when he was only expecting to play in the Welsh Prem.

I was out in Newport on Friday Night following our fantastic win over the Blues and all the Dragons team were out aswell. Was talking to Toby Faletau and Hugh Gustafson outside a club and I've got to say they're all top lads as well. I was having a laugh with Hugh and jokingly told him that for a prop his scrummaging was **** but if he could sort that out then he would have a chance for Wales haha, he got me in a headlock but overall took it fairly well!
 
he got me in a headlock but overall took it fairly well!
You got out easily I imagine ;)

What could be Brew's limiting factor in the World Cup (outside of performance) is his ability to play only wing. North has experience as a centre and Halfpenny at fullback.
I certainly think Tovey is deserving of a shot over the Summer, perhaps coming off the bench after Robinson ruins the opposition.
 
Ai Hugh was fine, the Dragons boys are all a really good bunch and were more than happy to have a chat and a bit of banter. I take your point with Brew and although his versatility may count against him I think its nice sometimes to have an out and out specialist wing like Shane Williams for example (though he could play scrum-half). Also its a bit of a wide shot but maybe (not that I've ever seen him play there) Brew could be used as a batter-ram Jamie Roberts type centre? I don't know whether or not he'd be any good there but other players have done it eg Tommy Bowe and Brew is strong like Roberts but a little bit faster and has better feet imo. I'd rather him stay on the wing but its just a suggestion which may solve the versatility criticism perhaps if he was tried there and was any good. Personally I think he could probably do a decent job there myself.
 
Ai Hugh was fine, the Dragons boys are all a really good bunch and were more than happy to have a chat and a bit of banter. I take your point with Brew and although his versatility may count against him I think its nice sometimes to have an out and out specialist wing like Shane Williams for example (though he could play scrum-half). Also its a bit of a wide shot but maybe (not that I've ever seen him play there) Brew could be used as a batter-ram Jamie Roberts type centre? I don't know whether or not he'd be any good there but other players have done it eg Tommy Bowe and Brew is strong like Roberts but a little bit faster and has better feet imo. I'd rather him stay on the wing but its just a suggestion which may solve the versatility criticism perhaps if he was tried there and was any good. Personally I think he could probably do a decent job there myself.

I don't think Brew's handling and distribution are up to par for an inside centre.
Although I am not his biggest fan, he has been in good form and worth a shot. Might as well try to expand our selection pool as much as we can before we head into the World Cup. Shane went down to NZ in 2003 as the third choice scrum half, if my memory serves me correctly.
 
I don't think Brew's handling and distribution are up to par for an inside centre.
Although I am not his biggest fan, he has been in good form and worth a shot. Might as well try to expand our selection pool as much as we can before we head into the World Cup. Shane went down to NZ in 2003 as the third choice scrum half, if my memory serves me correctly.

Those are two of the reasons why Brew is not often considered for selection for Wales. His positioning has also been questioned at times in particularly in his 4 caps for Wales. If he sorts those out then I have no doubts he would be considered a regular member of the Wales squad.

Tovey's major weakness is his defense and I presume this is the reason why Gatland has not selected him. He is a good player and you are not going to know how good he is until he is tried at international selection.

Smith, dunno really about him. Something tells me he won't hack it at international level, he has been on immense for this season so its only fair that Gatland allows him the chance to prove himself to be up to international standard.

Charteris, the man can play at regional level but not international. Is he the equivalent of Mark Ramprakash?

Falatau, Gatland has messed the boy around. Should have played in the AI's last year. So Gatland and co had a rough idea of what was going on with him but has a chance to test him this summer.

The major problem comes for Gatland is that in the past he has failed to test players at the right time. Is the Summer Test the right place and time to experiment? I think so.
 
To be fair, Brew's handling has gotten better recently, and he knows his way to the tryline.

Regarding Tovey, I don't think he is any worse in defence than say Stephen Jones, who has been a weakpoint in the Scarlets' defence lately. Jason's defence was questionable, even until last season, but I haven't seen any major issues with it lately. He did a decent job at fullback as well, where you can safely say tackling is a must.

Charteris has never taken his opportunities, and doesn't perform as many want him to. The biggest issue is how someone 6'9" doesn't win every lineout. Watching the Stormers on Saturday I noticed that at almost every single lineout the ball went to Bekker. 6'10" and wins every ball. The Sharks knew it was coming but could do nothing. Gareth Williams and Charteris, however, gave England the ball every time.

In 2008 I thought Ian Evans was our long-term second row. A big ******* with good pace and solid in the loose and lineouts, and also a decent brain. Multiple injuries later he is behind Gough at the Ospreys and a liability on the field. Ian has served Wales very well for the past decade, but his time has come. Deiniol, please no. Ryan Jones simply isn't a second row, and at 6'5" possibly a bit short for an international lock. Will James anyone? ;)
 
To be fair, Brew's handling has gotten better recently, and he knows his way to the tryline.

Regarding Tovey, I don't think he is any worse in defence than say Stephen Jones, who has been a weakpoint in the Scarlets' defence lately. Jason's defence was questionable, even until last season, but I haven't seen any major issues with it lately. He did a decent job at fullback as well, where you can safely say tackling is a must.

Charteris has never taken his opportunities, and doesn't perform as many want him to. The biggest issue is how someone 6'9" doesn't win every lineout. Watching the Stormers on Saturday I noticed that at almost every single lineout the ball went to Bekker. 6'10" and wins every ball. The Sharks knew it was coming but could do nothing. Gareth Williams and Charteris, however, gave England the ball every time.

In 2008 I thought Ian Evans was our long-term second row. A big ******* with good pace and solid in the loose and lineouts, and also a decent brain. Multiple injuries later he is behind Gough at the Ospreys and a liability on the field. Ian has served Wales very well for the past decade, but his time has come. Deiniol, please no. Ryan Jones simply isn't a second row, and at 6'5" possibly a bit short for an international lock. Will James anyone? ;)

Gwyn Jones and the boys on S4C have mentioned Tovey and his defence as a weakness. I still see it and thats why Gatland probably has not called him up. Id like to see him there but in reality until his D improves he wont get a sniff in. Stephen Jones has been solid in defence for Wales people quickly forget that and over look it.
 
Yes, they have mentioned it, but has it been a major issue in the Dragons side lately?
Stephen Jones' defence has been rather poor lately, and Perpignan (specifically) exploited it.
His defence was good for Wales over the past few years, but he is getting on now, and his performance shows it.
 
Yes, they have mentioned it, but has it been a major issue in the Dragons side lately?
Stephen Jones' defence has been rather poor lately, and Perpignan (specifically) exploited it.
His defence was good for Wales over the past few years, but he is getting on now, and his performance shows it.

Again its often overlooked, Jones in a Welsh shirt has been different to that in a Scarlets shirt of late. People moan about him not being attacking enough (don't really buy the argument) and now all of a sudden his defence is now all of a sudden rubbish. With that logic no point taking Jones to the World Cup <_<.

Wow ... no wonder Wales can have some of the most fickle of fans and no wonder the Western Mail is so poor with its rugby news because the opinions sway so drastically its unreal.
 
Again its often overlooked, Jones in a Welsh shirt has been different to that in a Scarlets shirt. People moan about him not being attacking enough (don't really buy the argument) and now all of a sudden his defence is now all of a sudden rubbish.

Wow ... no wonder Wales can have some of the most fickle of fans and no wonder the Western Mail is so poor with its rugby news because the opinions sway so drastically its unreal.

First of all, please don't brand me as a typical Western Fail reader, I try to look beyond what others simply tell me. I don't think my opinions sway drastically either. I judge based on what I see week in week out for club and country.
If we are to pick a side based on current performances, then it would look very different than legacy. We can't just go into the World Cup with players in based upon merit.
Hence, why I selected players whose performances at club level justify selection at international level.

No doubt Stephen Jones has put on some great performances in a Wales shirt. His best match, IMO, was against France in 2005. Fantastic, controlling performance with great attack and defence from him among others.
All in all, I don't think we should drop Stephen just on his Scarlets performances, nor should we include him automatically based upon his performances of the past.
 
From what I've seen of Tovey's recent defensive performances, he's still not a great tackler and can get brushed off when a big lad runs at him. This hasn't been so obvious recently, because Faluetau has been doing an amazing job of tracking back and cover tackling everyone who get's past the first line of defense before it's gotten too bad. I feel Tovey still deserves a shot with Wales, but am unsure whether that should be before or after the WC. Considering Gatland has only just introduced Priestland to the Wales squad, I can see him continuing with him, or going for the more experienced Nicky Robinson. Tovey should be included post WC though for sure.

I'm another who kinda has a feeling that Smith won't cut it at international level, but untill he's tried we'll never know. I was probably a little harsh on him before, but it's just my opinion of him. I have similar feelings about Gareth Maul and Daf Hewitt aswell, just don't see that they have it in them to raise their game another notch necessary to be a top class international. Bishop falls into the same category for me aswell. Very solid player who will never let you down, but isn't capable of really stamping his mark on a game at international level. We've seen how difficult the step-up can be for some players like Jon Davies, who dominates at regional level, but has struggled at international. I hope I'm prooven wrong if or when he's given the chance, but I certainly can't see that chance coming before the WC.
 
The Jon Davies we're seeing for Wales this year is the Jon Davies we were seeing for the Scarlets last year. I'd give him a bit more time.

I think Aled Brew needs to relax when playing for Wales: His roaming and tracking play is usually very good in attack for the Dragons, but for Wales he just doesn't look at home and sticks to his wing more often. Perhaps it's an issue that will take time, the kind of time Wales don't have, but I would still like to see him given more chances and to be told he has a license to roam.
 
Again its often overlooked, Jones in a Welsh shirt has been different to that in a Scarlets shirt of late. People moan about him not being attacking enough (don't really buy the argument) and now all of a sudden his defence is now all of a sudden rubbish. With that logic no point taking Jones to the World Cup <_<.

Wow ... no wonder Wales can have some of the most fickle of fans and no wonder the Western Mail is so poor with its rugby news because the opinions sway so drastically its unreal.

I think you've slightly over stepped the mark here about Stephen Jones and over elaborated on what Draggs was trying to say. He wasn't knocking Stephen Jones but was simply highlighting the fact that recently Stephen Jones defence has not been up to his normal high standard and if people are stating this as a reason for Tovey not being selected (theres been nothing wrong with his defence the past few games, in fact his performances have been near spotless) then surely the same could be said of Stephen Jones based on CURRENT CLUB FORM in regards to his tackling, of course form comes and goes and I expect him to improve and get back to his best. Stephen Jones has been exceptional for Wales over the years and will continue to be reliable and a great performer until he decides to call it a day and of course he should be in the World Cup squad. I think Stephen will play very much the same role as O'Gara does for Ireland these days, still starts occasionally but for the most part is the experienced man to come on and close out a game. Back to Tovey though and I take the point that some people doubt his ability in defence, though I don't see this as so much of an issue right now but what about O'Gara? I'm saying this as a person who despises O'Gara (but respects whathe has accomplished all the same) but this is a person whos had/still having a great career with Ireland and Munster but has always been suspect in defence and targeted as a weak link in the Irish/Munster side. My point is that even if someones defence is not quite up there it can be made up for if they are good enough in other aspects so Tovey although I would like him to improve his defence could still be an international 10 as O'Gara has done it and managed to get away with it over the years. This in no way is meant to be disrespectful towards O'Gara but I'm just making a point and a comparison between the 2.
 
I think you've slightly over stepped the mark here about Stephen Jones and over elaborated on what Draggs was trying to say. He wasn't knocking Stephen Jones but was simply highlighting the fact that recently Stephen Jones defence has not been up to his normal high standard and if people are stating this as a reason for Tovey not being selected (theres been nothing wrong with his defence the past few games, in fact his performances have been near spotless) then surely the same could be said of Stephen Jones based on CURRENT CLUB FORM in regards to his tackling, of course form comes and goes and I expect him to improve and get back to his best. Stephen Jones has been exceptional for Wales over the years and will continue to be reliable and a great performer until he decides to call it a day and of course he should be in the World Cup squad. I think Stephen will play very much the same role as O'Gara does for Ireland these days, still starts occasionally but for the most part is the experienced man to come on and close out a game. Back to Tovey though and I take the point that some people doubt his ability in defence, though I don't see this as so much of an issue right now but what about O'Gara? I'm saying this as a person who despises O'Gara (but respects whathe has accomplished all the same) but this is a person whos had/still having a great career with Ireland and Munster but has always been suspect in defence and targeted as a weak link in the Irish/Munster side. My point is that even if someones defence is not quite up there it can be made up for if they are good enough in other aspects so Tovey although I would like him to improve his defence could still be an international 10 as O'Gara has done it and managed to get away with it over the years. This in no way is meant to be disrespectful towards O'Gara but I'm just making a point and a comparison between the 2.

Don't think I have stepped over any mark, Jones was getting an absolute handful of criticism and I think its only fair he gets a good defence case in.

Tovey's defence has been highlighted as an issue, O'Gara has a world class boot on him in front of goal and has a great tactical boot (yes I know he's cost the Lions), which makes up for his tackling weakness. Tovey's kicking for goal is inconsistent also he can kick some stellar kicks and then miss fire the next. Tovey's attacking game is brillaint, he runs the show very well yet the two weaknesses currently are known to be his tackling at goal kicking. Yes currently his form has been good and deserves a shot with Wales, but people have to be aware of the weaknesses. He's young enough to develop more and he has a lot to give.
 
I think the difference is that, while Tovey is a poor tackler, rarely has this been exploited and been made a major issue. However, O'Gara (Last weekend against Quins being the latest example) is shown up far more often. Whether when he becomes a higher-profile figure more people will target Tovey, we do not know, but I think a few missed tackles is not a good enough reason to ignore somebody that has been outstanding going forward.
 
Don't think I have stepped over any mark, Jones was getting an absolute handful of criticism and I think its only fair he gets a good defence case in.

Tovey's defence has been highlighted as an issue, O'Gara has a world class boot on him in front of goal and has a great tactical boot (yes I know he's cost the Lions), which makes up for his tackling weakness. Tovey's kicking for goal is inconsistent also he can kick some stellar kicks and then miss fire the next. Tovey's attacking game is brillaint, he runs the show very well yet the two weaknesses currently are known to be his tackling at goal kicking. Yes currently his form has been good and deserves a shot with Wales, but people have to be aware of the weaknesses. He's young enough to develop more and he has a lot to give.

If I may, Darren Edwards has mentioned that Tovey's poor kicking lately is due to a new style, which will hopefully give him better range. His tactical kicking is fantastic, and has set the Dragons up for many tries (read Aled Brew).
 

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