Wales v Ireland

[smartcooky]

Wales' try should never have been allowed.

[textarea]LAW 19.2 (d) For a quick throw-in, the player must use the ball that went into touch. A quick throw-in is not permitted if another person has touched the ball apart from the player throwing it in and an opponent who carried it into touch. The same team throws into the lineout.[/textarea]

The ball was handled by a spectator, and it was also handled by another Welsh player other then the thrower, so no quick throw in should have been permitted.

There is some suggestion that it was not a "quick throw-in" but a "quickly taken line-out" instead....

[textarea]Law 19.8 (a) Minimum. At least two players from each team must form a lineout.[/textarea]

There were not two players from each team, and in any case, the throw was not taken from the line-of-touch, nor was it anywhere near straight, both of which are requirements for a "quickly taken line-out."

Kaplan asked if it was the same ball, so he MUST be thinking "quick throw-in" not "quickly taken line-out" because the latter can be done using a different ball (so there would be no need to ask about it)

This is a very bad law error, and a critical one, that affected the outcome of the game. The Assistant Referee should go for a skate.

PS: This is yet another reason why the TMO protocols should be extended to ANYTHING that happens immediately prior to a try being scored. Kaplan then asks the TMO (who was in a much better position then the AR) about the QT.

 

[TVH11]

What the **** is wrong with the BBC? Oh, Ireland are playing Wales so heres a piece on Martin Johnson. *****.

Gotta totally agree with you (total patriotism kicking in). Nail biting game, really thought we'd throw it away at the end. Actually forgot we scored a try (shows how "messed up I was"), but was a tidy defensive effort. When Mitchell went off i thought the game had turned but thought Yapp did a tidy job. Very pleased with the result, (great game with Italy, well played) so bring on the rest of the night
To sympathise with the Irish guys, didn't see how the try was given, but after seeing "Smartcooky" post, i can see why it was controversial. I wish that the ref's were consistent

 

[Chris Ward]

Terrible match, extremely boring to watch. As an Irish fan I've really got to ask the question, "Since when did the whole team possess a kicking game?". Even the forwards were getting in on it. I just can't understand the mindset of Fitzgerald, he sticks up a few high balls, gives instant possesion to Wales and they pin us back in our 22. Why does he not change his tactic? We have some great backs (Bowe, Earls and O'Driscoll on his day now), just take the contact, recycle and use our goddamn back line!

With regard to "Line-out-gate", the ref's decision is final, sure it sucks but you just got to take it on the chin. I'm sure if all teams went through the match footage they could find an errant call somewhere. I would agree with the extension of the TMO's powers to cover the time from the last play to the try, perhaps that is a happy medium?

 

[SelimNiai]

What a result!

It may not have been a top quality game but it was tense and a hard fought game between two teams who are very similar at the moment. I've never celebrated a knock on more in my life. Now the small matter of a wounded French side.

Im not going to get involved with the "try" I thought there was nothing wrong with it but I admit I didn't know of 19.2(d)'s existence. So I suppose we were lucky but the ref decided it was a try so there we are. I know it may sound easy for me to say that as we won the game but what the ref says goes.

 

[Curls]

Well......

For me the unthinkable has to be uttered in Irish rugby...."Is Kidney the man to lead us to the RWC?" I have had epic respect for him as a coach but it has to be said, what the foop is he doing??
For me it looks as if several of Ireland's big names are unhappy with how things are being played. BOD, Heaslip and certainly Sexton look very unhappy in the team.

Taking off ROG was a stupid stupid stupid thing to do and was a total bolt out of the blue. In my opinion Sexton should be the starter and we bring in ROG to close it out, but if you're gonna make a decision and start ROG and play a certain way then atleast stick to the game plan!
The game was poor and in truth neither team deserved the win. A draw and a "hang your heads in shame" talk would have been a fir result. That being said Ireland should have won although they didnt deserve to. CLEARLY the touch judge's career at this level must now be well and truely over. Missing somthing like that is one thing from a distance but a foot away from you is criminal!! It must also be said that Rees would have known well that what he was doing was against the rules and so would have known that it was an illegal try. I was a bit needled by the huge grin on his face as Phillips went in to score! Whether or not that's cheating is another story! I think the injustice smashed Ireland's focus and they fell away from there!


The real story here though isnt the game and the result as such from an Irish point of view, it's the state of the team! Selection is a huge issue! Leinster are barnstorming through Europe and the ML(when they play a full team) and the bulk of the players in that team are Irish internationals and should be playing! Why can we not take the Leinster game plan and go with that? Why are we playing this boring negative play when in essence the large majority of our true 1st team play exciting expansive rugby week in week out for their club!
Why also do we persist with these ridiculous selections like Paddy Wallace?? Paddy Wallace has proven NUMEROUS times that he is a liability on the field(ie today, against Somoa and who can forget the EPIC brainfart against Wales last time??) I have voiced my opinions on his selction on here and will do it again! It seems that at all times we must have a "certain Ulster type of player" on the field. It seems we have a quota system in operation....

Sexton seems to be totally out of sorts. Kidney has distroyed his confidence by dropping him and now I think he's being sent out and being told to play a way that he doesnt want to play!
Ireland have a plum chance next week and get their act together and wreck England's Grand Slam in Dublin. What better motivation could you want as an Irish player?? What better reason to go out and put the ghosts to bed??
In any case I think selection is arseways! We need to pick the best players nomatter where they're from if we want to suceed. Leinster have more or less served up ready made combinations yet Kidney ignores they and trys to cobble substandard player into the team and play a crap game plan!

For next week: Play the Leinster way!

Starting team for England match: 15.Bowe 14.Fitz 13.BOD. 12.Darcy 11.Earls 10.Sexton
9.Reddan(if he's back with us by then..if not Stringer) 1.Healy 2.Best(nobody else) 3.Ross 4.Cullen(WELL deserves a go) 5. POC 6.SOB 7.Jennings(seriously..cmon he should get a look in) 8.Heaslip 16.Cronin 17.Court 18.DOC 19.D Wallace 20.Stringer/Boss 21.ROG 22.McFadden

 

[Chris Ward]

Spot on Curls. I totally agree with everything you have said and especially from an Ulster perspective. We just dont have the players to compete with the likes of Leinster and Munster, none of them truly deserve a place in the Irish line up. The Championship is gone, the triple crown is gone, is it time to be making some crazy and radical decisions in the line up since we are only gonna have 5 games till the world cup?

The center situation needs sorted out, D'Arcy really needs to go. He has not performed well, yet there is no pressure for him to, Kidney appears to be content to play him there.

I think Fitzgerald is a great player but he has no kicking game, sort it.

I really hope Reddan is back for the England game, Stringer is just to slow, he pauses before he passes at the ruck. I fail to see how he ever made it as an international scrum half. Im not sure if others will agree but Ireland have had one of the most interesting and well gelled back lines of the past few years, if they aint getting quick ball how can they tear a defensive line to shreds.

Really fuming now as Ireland had quite an interesting group for the World Cup with a chance of even making it to the semis with a win over Austrailia but I severly doubt it now, yet we have a team that seems to be going nowhere.

 

[shtove]

Wales' try should never have been allowed.

[textarea]LAW 19.2 (d) For a quick throw-in, the player must use the ball that went into touch. A quick throw-in is not permitted if another person has touched the ball apart from the player throwing it in and an opponent who carried it into touch. The same team throws into the lineout.[/textarea]

The ball was handled by a spectator, and it was also handled by another Welsh player other then the thrower, so no quick throw in should have been permitted.

There is some suggestion that it was not a "quick throw-in" but a "quickly taken line-out" instead....

[textarea]Law 19.8 (a) Minimum. At least two players from each team must form a lineout.[/textarea]

There were not two players from each team, and in any case, the throw was not taken from the line-of-touch, nor was it anywhere near straight, both of which are requirements for a "quickly taken line-out."

Kaplan asked if it was the same ball, so he MUST be thinking "quick throw-in" not "quickly taken line-out" because the latter can be done using a different ball (so there would be no need to ask about it)

This is a very bad law error, and a critical one, that affected the outcome of the game. The Assistant Referee should go for a skate.

PS: This is yet another reason why the TMO protocols should be extended to ANYTHING that happens immediately prior to a try being scored. Kaplan then asks the TMO (who was in a much better position then the AR) about the QT.

Knew you'd weigh in on this! Thanks.

The argument could be that two from either side were lined up, so "quickly taken" may have been in Kaplan's mind. Did the assistant have his flag raised to mark the line of touch? Don't know. And Kaplan may have seen the throw as straight, question of judgment.

"Kaplan asked if it was the same ball" - I didn't hear that. He seemed to award the try then ask the assistant at the corner flag, "Is the call correct?" He was told, Yes. If that's all he said, it's not clear what he was thinking. But if he was thinking "quickly taken", there was no need to ask the assistant anything, much less a TMO style question.

Whatever was said, seems illogical to allow this kind of question to the assistant but not to the TMO.

But assume Kaplan was thinking "quick throw in". Maybe you can clear up the division of duties. I think it's fair for the ref to rely on the assistant to know whether the same ball is being used, because he has alot to think of in preparation for a lineout even though the throw in turns out to be quick. But the ref should have his own view on whether a quickie can be thrown when the ball has crash landed in the crowd twenty metres up the pitch!

Watched it on TV and can't give my initial reaction because, when the throw was taken, the camera was doing its "you idiot!" close-up on Sexton. But that just shows how everybody assumed the lineout needed time to form.

I do think it was a quick throw in, but the slow-mo of players from both sides walking to line up inside the 15m line gives me some doubt.

All round quite a cock up - illogical system, and epic fail by assistant AND ref.

 

[Logorrhea]

Having watched Leinster this year and seeing what these players can do, I cant believe the Irish coaching setup could possibly believe that those tactics are appropriate in any conditions at any time. We deserve to lose if only because we dont try to play to our potential. To think they actually talked about continuing to push an expansive style of rugby after the AIs.

This team if fractured. They are broken. The squad is not united and I cant believe the Leinster players are buying into kicking that much ball away. The sooner we get our lads back to a decent coach the better.

Oh ............. I wouldnt be any happier if I was a Welsh fan. They were absolutely **** too.

Such a poor tournament, such poor play, god help the lot of us when the WC comes around.

 

[cyRil]

I am ******* landed.
It may not have been a legitimate try, but I don't care at all. We get a lot of **** that goes against us so I'm really happy we got a break this time.
Get in!

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Congratulations on a sterling performance by Kaplan and his merry gang of officials. Game was marred by errors which the officials failed to point out, the small knock ons, binding at the scrum, lineouts not being straight, crossing in centre field, hands in the ruck, releasing the man in the tackle and Kaplan's failure to understand the quick throw. I can only suggest that the three officials get sent back to officiate in their home countries and learn the game before setting foot again in these shores. It may be a strong statement and one that may offend some but I am sick and tired of watching Kaplan failure to officiate a game to a creditable level. The game is hard but today was a shambles. May I point out that I deeply understand the frustration by the Irish when Phillips scored but earlier on the same was given to Ireland - granted it was not in the build up to the try but they were allowed the same when the ball was touched by the crowd / ad board. The game had a lot of 50/50 calls and from where I was standing Ireland got their fair share of calls Wales one was the try.

Onto the Welsh performance, got to say James Hook was not the Man of the Match, he was ok but was not great. Our MOTM today was our skipper if anyone. Rarely did he place our centres into the game or get our backline moving, his kicking from hand was woeful but his goalkicking was great. Hook sat far to deep and was not the great messiah he is labelled as. Given he has been better than previously at 10.

Mike Phillips was better, yes he was slow in getting the ball away but he was amazing his his kicking, best that I have ever seen him for a while. He was a joy today and did a lot of clearing up when we were under pressure. He took his 'try' well but his service is needed to improve.

Lee Byrne was hit and miss. He needs to wear longer studs because his slipping at crucial times. His kicking was better as the game went on but still he is a liability at times.

John Davies was pretty quiet I felt really did little but run sideways, Roberts made some good tackles and took the game forward for us. Still believe he is a better 12 than 13. I don't think Davies-Roberts combo is working for Wales at present.

Ryan Jones and the back row today were pretty good and I was really impressed. I am hoping Jones shoulder injury is not as bad as it is feared. He works really well with Lydiate and Warburton. Losing Craig Mitchell was a blow I felt, our lineout general and has been impressive all the games he has played in this 6 Nations. Yapp was good today, granted Wallace ripped the ball out of his hands he was good in the loose and he held his own in the few scrums he had. Captain Rees had a strong game and I mean strong, by far his best performance in a while, lead from the front.

All in all it was a scrappy game with poor officiating.

 

[gingergenius]

**** me, if England don't win a Grand Slam then they've got some serious contemplation to do. Unfortunately, we've got another poor six nations on our hands - high on passion and excitement, low on quality. This year we may see an English slam, which is a great achievement, but I think it'll look like the 2008 Welsh slam and last year's French slam - just a question of one team being head and shoulders above the rest. At least in 2009 Ireland had to fight hard for wins against France, Wales and England - there were 3 and a half good sides that year. This year, only one side has looked any good at all. Thank **** we don't have a Lions tour this summer..

On to this game in particular - shocking from the TJ for the Welsh try, but I can't say Ireland deserved anything out of that match. Botching that try at the end summed it up, not to mention the 3 on 2 they had when O'Callaghan forward passed to Fitzgerald when simply through the hands would have done. Both Ireland and Wales have huge amounts of talent in their outside backs, but the amount of ball they kick away or allow forwards to take into contact is depressing. I don't think I've ever seen a match with so many overlaps created and so few tries scored.

On the plus side, Warburton and Rees were the standout players. Wales have developed a really well balanced pack - if they can make their backs kick the ball less they'll always to be a threat to anyone besides the All Blacks.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Wales prop Craig Mitchell to miss France trip

Mitchell suspected dislocated shoulder.

"Hopefully Adam has been training and his weight is OK and we'll be able to keep him in the squad," said Gatland.

Jones made his Ospreys comeback in the region's 37-6 win over Glasgow last weekend after being out for seven weeks with an elbow injury.

But Wales opted not to call up Jones for Saturday's clash with Ireland, with Gatland saying the tight-head had gained too much fat during his absence.

"He knows if he turns up on Tuesday and he's overweight then I'll turn around and send him home," added Gatland. "So hopefully he might be in the sauna [on Sunday]."

Gatland lad, shut the hell up. Who else we got?

 

[dullonien]

Oh ............. I wouldnt be any happier if I was a Welsh fan. They were absolutely **** too.

Yeh, not particularily happy with the performance. But after the two years or se we've had, the win was all important. We had the worst start possible, buggering up a simple clearance and conceding the try. But for the rest of the first half, we played some decent stuff. Hook kept Ireland pinned back and we created a few opportunities. It is still very worying that we're not converting enough of those opportunities. At one point we had something like a three man overlap, but Hook seemed to almost stop with the ball, unable to decide what to do, then gave a short pass to Ryan Jones who had little option by then but to take it up. We still manufactured an overlap straight after, but Shane was pinged for a double movement.

We really need to start getting our centres into games. I barely saw Jonathan Davies, which is a pitty, as he's such a dangerous runner. I thought Lydiate and Ryan Jones were getting in the way a little in midfield today. Both are decent ball carryers, but they should be concentrating on making ground around the fringes of rucks, and not in midfield where Roberts and Davies are perfectly capable of making their own yards.

A win's a win though, it's all about building the confidence at the moment, and this game will do wonders for that. We need to start seeing some pregress asap though, otherwise we'll struggle in the WC.

Congratulations on a sterling performance by Kaplan and his merry gang of officials. Game was marred by errors which the officials failed to point out, the small knock ons, binding at the scrum, lineouts not being straight, crossing in centre field, hands in the ruck, releasing the man in the tackle and Kaplan's failure to understand the quick throw. I can only suggest that the three officials get sent back to officiate in their home countries and learn the game before setting foot again in these shores. It may be a strong statement and one that may offend some but I am sick and tired of watching Kaplan failure to officiate a game to a creditable level. The game is hard but today was a shambles. May I point out that I deeply understand the frustration by the Irish when Phillips scored but earlier on the same was given to Ireland - granted it was not in the build up to the try but they were allowed the same when the ball was touched by the crowd / ad board. The game had a lot of 50/50 calls and from where I was standing Ireland got their fair share of calls Wales one was the try.

Onto the Welsh performance, got to say James Hook was not the Man of the Match, he was ok but was not great. Our MOTM today was our skipper if anyone. Rarely did he place our centres into the game or get our backline moving, his kicking from hand was woeful but his goalkicking was great. Hook sat far to deep and was not the great messiah he is labelled as. Given he has been better than previously at 10.

Mike Phillips was better, yes he was slow in getting the ball away but he was amazing his his kicking, best that I have ever seen him for a while. He was a joy today and did a lot of clearing up when we were under pressure. He took his 'try' well but his service is needed to improve.

Lee Byrne was hit and miss. He needs to wear longer studs because his slipping at crucial times. His kicking was better as the game went on but still he is a liability at times.

John Davies was pretty quiet I felt really did little but run sideways, Roberts made some good tackles and took the game forward for us. Still believe he is a better 12 than 13. I don't think Davies-Roberts combo is working for Wales at present.

Ryan Jones and the back row today were pretty good and I was really impressed. I am hoping Jones shoulder injury is not as bad as it is feared. He works really well with Lydiate and Warburton. Losing Craig Mitchell was a blow I felt, our lineout general and has been impressive all the games he has played in this 6 Nations. Yapp was good today, granted Wallace ripped the ball out of his hands he was good in the loose and he held his own in the few scrums he had. Captain Rees had a strong game and I mean strong, by far his best performance in a while, lead from the front.

All in all it was a scrappy game with poor officiating.

Agree with all of that except for the part hilighted. I thought his kicking out of hand was good. He pinned Ireland pack throughout the majority of the match (territory stats were massively in Wales' favour). He even managed to get the ball behind the Irish back three on occasions, which I haven't seen Wales do for god knows how long. Not a great game apart from that though. Rees or Warbs should have been motm, as both were great.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wales prop Craig Mitchell to miss France trip

Mitchell suspected dislocated shoulder.



Gatland lad, shut the hell up. Who else we got?

Christ, talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face...

 

[TRF_Cymro]

We really need to start getting our centres into games. I barely saw Jonathan Davies, which is a pitty, as he's such a dangerous runner. I thought Lydiate and Ryan Jones were getting in the way a little in midfield today. Both are decent ball carryers, but they should be concentrating on making ground around the fringes of rucks, and not in midfield where Roberts and Davies are perfectly capable of making their own yards.

Blame Hook for that really, as I said on the previous page, when he got decent ball he kicked it away. He sat to far back in the pocket and kicked. The times ball found its way to Roberts it was straight running for some yards, Davies was lateral and just does not run straight when he should. Had no problem with Lydiate or Jones (Jones was not that guilty as you say Dull) because what they were making hard yards and they were taking ball that was given to them, cannot blame them for that. Hook or others could have easily thrown miss passes and missed them out and brought the backs in more, from where I was sitting in the stadium today, which has a great aerial view of the pitch to which I can see the entire field and see the patterns of play, what I saw from my vantage point was that Jones and Lydiate often found ball when they did not hit a ruck, you cannot hit every ruck and backs need to hit rucks also, think we missed Jones when he went off again today, hopefully his injury is not as serious.

Christ, talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face...

He was not that bad when he came on for the Ospreys as Gatland has said. Criticises Stephen Jones and now Adam Jones, joy. Think Gatland need to go back to learn to coach before speaking out of turn in the media again. Frustrating as hell at the mo.

 

[dullonien]

Christ, talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face...

At least he's consistent I suppose. Eifion-Lewis Roberts wasn't selected due to his weight afterall. But we have no options really, especially when we consider the way France dominated Italy at scrum-time today. I think it's just Gatland having a bit of banter really.

 

[no-1-rugby-fan]

Really made up about the win but not about the performance. We have to improve a lot if we stand any chance of doing well in the World Cup, the same applies to all of the team's in this Six Nations apart from England who have looked very good. Second and not playing well sums it up really.

 

[Draggs]

Hook wasn't great but he is still getting back into playing 10. We still have no attack, whether Hook or Wellies plays. It seems like we still aren't sure what to do with Jonathan Davies and how he fits in with Jamie Roberts.

Not great, but we would have lost that 12 months ago.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Wales vs. Ireland Game Stats:

ESPN Rugby Stats
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[TRF_Olyy]

14 missed tackles?
I imagine a certain Northerner is going to be dropping the C-bomb a few times in analysis