Wales v Ireland, 02/02/13

[dullonien]

Dull make the excuses all you want and being selective with viewing. Gethin worked flat out, he gave away a penalty for losing his bind but generally had the better of Ross. He was actually one of the first chasers with the backs for up and unders, nuisance at the breakdowns, tackled well and I'm pretty sure he won a turnover.

Adam Jones was hardly penalised by Poite infact it was a criminal decision when Ross folded and somehow won a penalty.

I'm sick and tired of defending the boy. I'm actually staying away from this thread, full of drivel.

Well played Ireland today. Some lovely rugby played.

Fair enough, I'm re-watching the game now and I'll keep an eye out. I based my scores on what I saw, and one of those things was a Gethin Jenkins massively below the standard he has set himself for the last decade. From my memory he didn't win a turn-over, and I didn't see him putting more work in than the likes of Ian Evans, Andrew Coombs or even Sam Warburton. Whether you like it or not, he's just not match fit (not his fault), yet is being asked by Howley to play in an intense international match. If he wasn't Gethin Jenkins then my score would probably have been a 5 and 'meh', didn't do much wrong, but didn't get himself involved much' comment, but he's the prop that just a season ago was arguably the best in the world and had a work-rate in the loose that no prop could touch. He's scored against that, because that's the level he's set.

I gave an equally poor score to Warburton, despite him putting in a lot of work. He was just nowhere close to the standards he has set in the past, and he get's judged based on those high standards.

btw, the penalty given against Adam Jones was correct imo. Adam went low and went to ground first. He was trying to get Healy to collapse, but Healy held on long enough. Unfortunately it was during a period of the game where we desperately needed some possession and territory, but just handed the ball and momentum back to Ireland again. Stuck in my memory.

I don't see why 'this thread is full of drivel', we're being rightly hard on a Welsh team that were for all intent and purpose out of the game by half-time. If was another poor, poor showing, and they deserve to be slammed for it, Jenkins and all!

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Dull the Jones decision was not correct it's not a simple case of who falls to the ground first. Trust me it's not as black and white as you seemingly think.

Again you failed to acknowledge what Jenkins did just glossed over. He was fit as his work rate was getting back to where it should be.

Coombs was dire at times today, made some basic errors, he may have tried but he wasnt that great. Davies, Biggar and Cuthbert were deffo the worse. Despite Toby's great tackling and seemingly carrying ability, his failure to pass on two occasions on overlaps might have cost points. At one stage had he ran inside and drew the man a simple pass back to North would have resulted in North having a run for the line. Simple things like this cost Wales.

Oh and by drivel. Matter of opinion but lot of stuff I've had to read in this thread and other Welsh thread has made me cringe. Some of the criticism is correct but other is not and gives a tainted view of the game.. It's a constant issue at times. Wales weren't great first half but second half they showed what they are capable of.

As I said I'm not carrying on because of the fear of admonishing people.

 

[dullonien]

Why have you named Toby as one of the 'worse' players? Pretty much the only player to take it to Ireland, and he did so all game. He must have been close to top carrier, easily making the most yards, and he didn't fall into the Irish choke tackle trap. A couple of turn-overs to boot. An excellent display from him, really back to his barnstorming best.

Biggar will be shot down due to his charge down, but I thought the rest of his game was good. Everyone will be clambering for Hook at 10, but when he came on, Hook did nothing of note. He tried to dance his way through, but got nowhere. Maybe he'd be better when we're not chasing the game like that, after all he came on with us needing to score twice in a few mins. Biggar should be given another opportunity imo.

Davies and Cuthbert were poor today mind.

Yes we played some ok stuff in the second half, but what's the point in that when we're already 30 down? It's the rugby equivalent of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Hopefully the comeback will give them a little confidence going into the France game, but there's nothing much else to take from it.

This is the first time in history that we've lost 5 games on the bounce at home. That is unacceptable. No point glossing over it because we played some good rugby when there was nothing to lose. One of the finest squads we've assembled has just done what no other Welsh team has, and not in a good way. Injuries or not, it's far, far from ok.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Tipuric's damn near blinded Sexton in the build up to the Halfpenny try!

 

[lucky number 7]

If Darcy is gone I want Fitzgerald at 12


In other news I think Ireland performed well

In particular Best Kearney Bod Sob

SOB's tackle count as usual massive.

Gilroy on D was slick too

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

If Darcy is gone I want Fitzgerald at 12


In other news I think Ireland performed well

In particular Best Kearney Bod Sob

SOB's tackle count as usual massive.

Gilroy on D was slick too

I don't think anyone is going to question Gilroys defense now. Some cracking hits especially on halfpenny.

 

[lynam1104]

Was thinking about Fitz at 12 only concern would be he hasn't played there for what 5 years? He has the skills and ability just not the game time there, however I'd have him there over Earls every time.

 

[Peat]

I was impressed at how well O'Mahony found space to run into and twisted in the tackle, good game and did his bit. Still maintain Henry would have been the better option but no way of knowing. That said, on general principles, any Blindside who racks up the smallest tackle count amongst the starting pack needs punching. Just wrong. The whole lineout thing was predictably enough ballix too. Looking at the rest of the back-row, feel there's a hint of under-performance there; O'Brien was hugely active but didn't seem to have enough blood left for his brain, Heaslip linked nicely but did no significant carrying and according to ESPN missed three tackles - I only saw one mind.

Rory Best pick of the Irish forwards although Healy must be delighted today. Nailed-on Lions! Fitzpatrick did fine when he come on, kept scrum stable enough and made a few tackles. If only he could stay fit. Fantastic effort in general - although it's slightly worrying that all big Irish performances are accompanied by virtually all of the pack posting double figures tackle counts.

Backline looked fairly sharp with what very little they had, D'Arcy was really missed in defence, shame you couldn't really get the space to get the wingers going. I'd love to think Ulsterrugby was right and that people will shut up about Gilroy's defence (and Zebo's) they won't.


Looking at Wales - Faletau was immense, but I'd like to see the incidents Cymro is talking about again. In general, I think Wales look short of vision, particularly when counter-attacking. Players don't seem to know when given the ball in space - and that's a long standing thought sharpened by yesterday, some of the ball kicked away against Australia sticks in the mind.

I would look seriously at the centre partnership; often, they seem less than the sum of their parts. Davies' passing problems aren't exactly news, Roberts hasn't been himself in a Wales jersey for a while if memory serves.

I want to see Walker. I want to see a bit of jink to mix things up. Has to be Cuthbert to make way because if you've got one winger who turns his back on Simon Zebo to watch Brian o'Driscoll draw the last man and one who doesn't, it's the one who doesn't you keep. That was genuinely hands-down one of the worst pieces of defending I've seen in a long time.

Question - if Warburton wasn't captain, would he be starting? To me the answer is no, but I might be missing something.

 

[kesh]

Wales didn't turn up in the first half, all looked depressed or something. Like they didn't want to be there. Same with the crowd, very flat until the sceond half. Talk about off the field events effecting the team, or obsession with there lack of a second rows. I'd sack the sports psychologist for a start. These the same players who won the 6N?

Think it's safe to say that the Lion's will be alittle more Green an a little less Red following that. Sexton, Best, Healy, Kearney nailed on. Just getting more an more bleak for Wales.

 

[psychic duck]

02 Matthew Rees - 4. Lineout went OK with him on the field, but he didn't offer much in open play.

I don't think he should have started, but lineout (his normal weakness) went okay actually. So I don't think he was that bad. Up his marks to about 6.

03 Adam Jones - 5. Disappointingly gave away a penalty at the scrum early on to hand Ireland the momentum once again. Did all he could, but didn't apply pressure in the scrums as expected.

That penalty was what I call "flop penalties". When both sides just collapse on impact and the referee just blows a penalty to avoid another reset. That can happen at any game and is bad luck, but he wasn't going backwards getting dominated at any time and was helping out Gethin Jenkins who has been struggling with scrums this past year with Toulon or with Wales against Samoa in November.

Paul James + Adam Jones = http://youtu.be/wSSEovES4DY?t=1h29m35s

Just proving why James should have started. And also 5 for Adam Jones just for 1 penalty, which was through bad luck is unfair. Especially when he made up for it when Paul James came on and there was the only scrummage that was clearly dominant for either side in the game.

04 Andrew Coombs - 8. Excellent test debut. One early knock-on aside, he carried well and and tackled strongly.

8? Good effort for him maybe, but he lacks quality for test level. Gave away 2 of the 3 penalties that Ireland kicked and had a bad handling error. Effort and work ethic only gets you so far when you lack skill. Should be down to 5, and make way for Kohn next match.

06 Aaron Shingler - 2. Worst Welsh player I'm afraid. Did little of note imo, and looked way off the pace of the game. Wasn't even used much in the lineouts, the reason Howley claimed he picked him.

That lineout reasoning was the same excuse that was used for selecting Jonathan Thomas for so long. Shingler wasn't quite as bad as 2 perhaps 4 would be fairer, but shouldn't have started (none of the Scarlets back row should be in the Wales starting team imo), the coaches should hopefully realise their error of not selecting Tipuric next week.

10 Dan Biggar - 6. That charge down was a costly mistake, but his only really obvious one. Other than that he attacked the gainline really well. Some of his passing maybe put pressure on his outside backs a couple of times, but in general his distribution was OK. Tackled when required.

I agree here. 6 fair, unfortunately Biggar is always hounded more than others after mistakes. But every player gets charged down once in a while (it's even happened to Dan Carter in the first seconds of the test match conceding a try once http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YVZ9WjRwrg), and it's hardly a regular problem for him where it happens too much. Was decent other than that mistake. Biggar needs to be given faith and a run of games throughout the tournament.

My ratings:
Jenkins - 4
Rees - 6
Jones - 6
Coombs - 5
Evans - 6
Shingler - 4
Warburton - 4
Faletau - 8
Phillips - 4
Biggar - 6
North - 6
Roberts - 4
Davies - 3
Cuthbert - 4
Halfpenny - 7

For France:
Halfpenny, Cuthbert, Hook, Roberts, North/Walker, Biggar, Phillips; James, Hibbard/Owens, Jones, JonesR, Coombs/Kohn, JonesR/Coombs/Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau; Owens/Rees, Jenkins, Mitchell, Evans, pick one, WilliamsL, WilliamsS, Walker/North.

Dropping Jonathan Davies completely is kneejerk. He had a poor game, but Scott Williams would have lunlikely been much better and is an worse passer than him normally anyway. Also I don't like that people still think of Jamie Roberts is undroppable, he was fine in defence but Bishop could do that equally well, but again offered little in attack. At least Jonathan Davies looked more like to make breaks. I agree about Hook into midfield though.

Also those saying drop Cuthbert for Walker due to Cuthbert's defence, need to consider that Walker's positioning in defence could improve. And Draggs, if one of the bosh wingers has to make way to offer some variation it should be Cuthbert not North.

Also keeping Coombs ahead of Ian Evans is silly imo. Ian Evans is still of much better quality, and has proven that over the long term to be a much better player. Also should be fitter next week as well hopefully.

 

[Amiga500]

Ah now, Amiga, thats nonsense. After all the controversy over POMs selection during the week he played well and deserves some credit.

I agree with this. Did Henry deserve to start on form? Probably. Does that mean that O'Mahony is a bad player or that he didn't play well? Hardly.

I'm mis-understood... not that I was very clear in my drunken post. I am not slating POMs performance.


When Tipuric came on, Ireland were nowhere at the ruck... whether that was due to POM staggering around with a concussion or whether it was due to his lack of ability to work the ground, I dunno.

Either way, there was a turning point in the game - Tipurics introduction and an inflexion point - Henry's introduction, which stemmed the Welsh quick ball.


POM did very well in the first half, but in the second, possibly due to the knock on the head, when Tipuric came on, the Welsh backrow were able to generate very quick ball.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Wales didn't turn up in the first half, all looked depressed or something. Like they didn't want to be there. Same with the crowd, very flat until the sceond half. Talk about off the field events effecting the team, or obsession with there lack of a second rows. I'd sack the sports psychologist for a start. These the same players who won the 6N?

Think it's safe to say that the Lion's will be alittle more Green an a little less Red following that. Sexton, Best, Healy, Kearney nailed on. Just getting more an more bleak for Wales.

Kearney isn't nailed on - he still isn't back at his best from coming back from injury and Halfpenny played really well yesterday..

 

[SelimNiai]

Kearney isn't nailed on - he still isn't back at his best from coming back from injury and Halfpenny played really well yesterday..

Bossed the airways, as per usual. So poor old Rob goes to a Lions tour second fiddle to a Welsh fullback for the second tour running.

Oh diddums

 

[Amiga500]

If Darcy is gone I want Fitzgerald at 12

James Downey...?

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Bossed the airways, as per usual. So poor old Rob goes to a Lions tour second fiddle to a Welsh fullback for the second tour running.Oh diddums

How you can be cocky after yesterday, I have absolutely no idea.

I'm mis-understood... not that I was very clear in my drunken post. I am not slating POMs performance.When Tipuric came on, Ireland were nowhere at the ruck... whether that was due to POM staggering around with a concussion or whether it was due to his lack of ability to work the ground, I dunno.Either way, there was a turning point in the game - Tipurics introduction and an inflexion point - Henry's introduction, which stemmed the Welsh quick ball.POM did very well in the first half, but in the second, possibly due to the knock on the head, when Tipuric came on, the Welsh backrow were able to generate very quick ball.

As much as I admire Henry, he really didn't make that much of an impression. Besides - Tipuric and POM were only on the pitch at the same time for something like 6 minutes.

James Downey...?

Why is everyone looking straight past Cave? He's been on really good form, very good defensively and is quite quick. He's decent size and has good hands. You're really suggesting Downey over Cave?
12: Cave / O'Driscoll
13: O'Driscoll / Cave


Both players have played in both positions - I think it could work.

 

[SelimNiai]

How you can be cocky after yesterday, I have absolutely no idea.

I thank you for taking the fairly obvious bait.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'd like Cave or Mcfadden.... Or Downey or Fitzgerald or McSharry or Wallace or (put name that is not Keith Earls here).

 

[lucky number 7]

James Downey...?

Christ no..


Please spare me that

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I'd like Cave or Mcfadden.... Or Downey or Fitzgerald or McSharry or Wallace or (put name that is not Keith Earls here).

We all know it will be Earls though. I wish he would just get injured or something.

 

[jkUNCAcap]

I see several people on here who are essentially condoning the stamping or raking with the cleats in a ruck. Being a new player, I never played in the old times when it was apparently allowed, but what I watched yesterday was brutal and unnecessary. The Wales number 3, with the long brown hair, Adam Jones I believe, was immediately stomping in every ruck, regardless of if an Irish player was "in the way" or not. It was honestly disgusting to watch, and if I noticed someone doing that in a game, I would put a target on their back for some sort of retaliation. I don't care if you think someone isn't rolling away fast enough, taking your cleat and jamming it into someone as hard as you can is bullshit, let alone aiming it for their face.