DuncTheDoodle
First XV
Tipuric turned the game. Without him being put on when he was, I reckon Ireland would've continued to press and press and we never would've upped the intensity. Has to start next week.
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Wales v Ireland, 02/02/13
- Thread starter TRF_Olyy
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It wasn't just his breakdown work either. He just added an attacking intensity that Wales were really lacking. Tipuric needs to be trusted, he has to be given the opportunity to play in a side free to attack. Wales played so well in the second half because they had nothing to lose and that's how they have to play the remainder of the tournament.
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For France:
Halfpenny, Cuthbert, Hook, Roberts, North/Walker, Biggar, Phillips; James, Hibbard/Owens, Jones, JonesR, Coombs/Kohn, JonesR/Coombs/Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau; Owens/Rees, Jenkins, Mitchell, Evans, pick one, WilliamsL, WilliamsS, Walker/North.
Halfpenny, Cuthbert, Hook, Roberts, North/Walker, Biggar, Phillips; James, Hibbard/Owens, Jones, JonesR, Coombs/Kohn, JonesR/Coombs/Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau; Owens/Rees, Jenkins, Mitchell, Evans, pick one, WilliamsL, WilliamsS, Walker/North.
If Walker is fit, I'd drop Cuthbert and retain North. North did more than Cuthbert today who did nothing other than score a decent try. Cuthbert was a mess in defence, he really needs to learn how to position himself in defence and how to tackle. North was also a little off in defence, but he doesn't get caught out on a regular basis like Cuthbert.
I hope Biggar is kept at 10, because other than the charge down he was much better than Hook when he came on, who once again danced a little but got nowhere.
I hope Biggar is kept at 10, because other than the charge down he was much better than Hook when he came on, who once again danced a little but got nowhere.
Hmm, just in from the pub. Probably need some time and re-watch the game and absorb it.
But, sticking out for me:
- Tipuric turned the game for Wales.
- Ireland improved when Henry came on for O'Mahoney, who admittedly did look out of it when staggering off.
- Keith Earls is not fit international rugby. If you want a bench have Keatley who can cover 10, 12 and 15 and Cave for 13. Earls just is not good enough at this level.
- Mike Ross wasn't looking too great coming off... worrying, very, very worrying. We can cope with almost anyone else out, but not Mike Ross.
- BOD for Lions 13? Hard to say no based on a defensive performance and having the temperament to know when to delay the pass half a second. Certainly outplayed Davies who was seen as a rival for the jersey.
Zebo and Gilroy worked well defensively and offensively, obviously the Zebo flick is most noticeable, but, Gilroy made a number of critical decisions in coming in and hitting the last man... hard.
But, sticking out for me:
- Tipuric turned the game for Wales.
- Ireland improved when Henry came on for O'Mahoney, who admittedly did look out of it when staggering off.
- Keith Earls is not fit international rugby. If you want a bench have Keatley who can cover 10, 12 and 15 and Cave for 13. Earls just is not good enough at this level.
- Mike Ross wasn't looking too great coming off... worrying, very, very worrying. We can cope with almost anyone else out, but not Mike Ross.
- BOD for Lions 13? Hard to say no based on a defensive performance and having the temperament to know when to delay the pass half a second. Certainly outplayed Davies who was seen as a rival for the jersey.
Zebo and Gilroy worked well defensively and offensively, obviously the Zebo flick is most noticeable, but, Gilroy made a number of critical decisions in coming in and hitting the last man... hard.
psychic duck
International
So Wales were much better when Tipuric and then Paul James (see his first scrum) came on. Two in form players who basically everybody acknowledged before the match should start.
But then unfortunately Howley continues to make some very questionable selections just like he did in November (Turnbull and McCusker vs Argentina, Priestland continuing to start).
But then unfortunately Howley continues to make some very questionable selections just like he did in November (Turnbull and McCusker vs Argentina, Priestland continuing to start).
Yeah I agree, North got Wales in behind the Irish defence. Cuthbert is very poor both in defence, both position wise and tackling.
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He needs some proper coaching. He has the attributes to be a good all round player, but ha no guidance. I don't trust Phil Davies, and would rather Alex go to France if need be.
Cuthbert was a late introduction to the game (sevens, that is) so didn't go through the academy system, U18, U20, etc.
North really needs a break or something. I can't put my finger on it, but it he looks out of it.
I agree, but until that happens, if we decide to drop one of our wingers for Walker to bring something a little different, then Cuthbert is the one to be dropped imo. Cuthbert is a great finisher, but today he also handed Zebo his try on a plate. Maybe Ireland would have scored anyway, but it shouldn't have been on that faze. Halfpenny was there to tackle BOD, Cuthbert had to trust his inside defence and cover his man on the outside. He's big enough to realistically tackle Zebo into touch if he'd got his positioning right, but we all know that even if he had he would have probably fallen off the tackle. He will learn, and it doesn't make him a poor player, but it makes him a liability at times, even if he does score try's.
North hasn't been firing on all cylinders, but I've maintained for a while that he's been given no opportunities in a Scarlets team hammered up front most games, and in a Welsh team that has been out-muscled recently. His lack of influence in Austrailia last summer was probably the biggest disappointment, because we were on top for large periods of that tour. Today though, he did what he could with the chances that came his way. At times he took on four Irish defenders and still made ground, he almost made the try line with three hanging off him. I feel he's still the more all rounded player between him and Cuthbert.
The best option would be to start the next game with North and Cuthbert, with Walker on the bench if he's fit. I'm looking forward to seeing Walker in the red of Wales, but he needs to be somewhat eased in.
Anyway, my ratings for the Welsh players:
01 Gethin Jenkins - 4. Once again, just looked off the pace of the game, both in open play and at the scrums.
02 Matthew Rees - 4. Lineout went OK with him on the field, but he didn't offer much in open play.
03 Adam Jones - 5. Disappointingly gave away a penalty at the scrum early on to hand Ireland the momentum once again. Did all he could, but didn't apply pressure in the scrums as expected.
04 Andrew Coombs - 8. Excellent test debut. One early knock-on aside, he carried well and and tackled strongly.
05 Ian Evans - 6. Put in lots of work, but was guilty of going into contact too upright, allowing Ireland to hold him up and turn him over.
06 Aaron Shingler - 2. Worst Welsh player I'm afraid. Did little of note imo, and looked way off the pace of the game. Wasn't even used much in the lineouts, the reason Howley claimed he picked him.
07 Sam Warburton - 4. Worked tirelessly as always, but had little impact on the game. Shocking decision making towards the end.
08 Toby Faletau - 9. Great all-round display. Wales' most effective ball carrier, and linked well.
09 Mike Phillips - 5. Once again, his slow distribution hurts us. Getting the ball knocked out of his hand when a try was looking likely was poor. Whilst a scrum half shouldn't normally be expected to stop Healy from short-range, you would normally put money on Phillips making that tackle.
10 Dan Biggar - 6. That charge down was a costly mistake, but his only really obvious one. Other than that he attacked the gainline really well. Some of his passing maybe put pressure on his outside backs a couple of times, but in general his distribution was OK. Tackled when required.
11 George North - 7. As I've said, did all he could. Beat a number of defenders, and always crossed the gainline.
12 Jamie Roberts - 3. Don't remember him doing much all game. No big tackles, no powerful runs. He tried to come on nice angles, but Ireland picked him up and smashed him every time.
13 Jon Davies - 4. Much more involved that Roberts, but was unfortunately often involved with everything poor about Wales too. His spot blitz didn't work today, and instead left the players outside him exposed. His offence was effective, yet filled with errors, especially his passing.
14 Alex Cuthbert - 4. Scored a try, that's about the only thing of note he did. Turnstyle in defence, literally. Unable to keep his depth in attack.
15 Leigh Halfpenny - 9. Once again, Halfpenny gives everything. If every player played like him, we'd be winning these matches. Scored a try, kicked all but the very difficult conversion from the touchline, imperious under the high ball, excellent in defence, and a few nice flick passes to boot. His tackle on SOB showed what he's about, threw himself at the big man, and chopped him down to allow Wales to get the turnover. The man's a class above.
01 Gethin Jenkins - 4. Once again, just looked off the pace of the game, both in open play and at the scrums.
02 Matthew Rees - 4. Lineout went OK with him on the field, but he didn't offer much in open play.
03 Adam Jones - 5. Disappointingly gave away a penalty at the scrum early on to hand Ireland the momentum once again. Did all he could, but didn't apply pressure in the scrums as expected.
04 Andrew Coombs - 8. Excellent test debut. One early knock-on aside, he carried well and and tackled strongly.
05 Ian Evans - 6. Put in lots of work, but was guilty of going into contact too upright, allowing Ireland to hold him up and turn him over.
06 Aaron Shingler - 2. Worst Welsh player I'm afraid. Did little of note imo, and looked way off the pace of the game. Wasn't even used much in the lineouts, the reason Howley claimed he picked him.
07 Sam Warburton - 4. Worked tirelessly as always, but had little impact on the game. Shocking decision making towards the end.
08 Toby Faletau - 9. Great all-round display. Wales' most effective ball carrier, and linked well.
09 Mike Phillips - 5. Once again, his slow distribution hurts us. Getting the ball knocked out of his hand when a try was looking likely was poor. Whilst a scrum half shouldn't normally be expected to stop Healy from short-range, you would normally put money on Phillips making that tackle.
10 Dan Biggar - 6. That charge down was a costly mistake, but his only really obvious one. Other than that he attacked the gainline really well. Some of his passing maybe put pressure on his outside backs a couple of times, but in general his distribution was OK. Tackled when required.
11 George North - 7. As I've said, did all he could. Beat a number of defenders, and always crossed the gainline.
12 Jamie Roberts - 3. Don't remember him doing much all game. No big tackles, no powerful runs. He tried to come on nice angles, but Ireland picked him up and smashed him every time.
13 Jon Davies - 4. Much more involved that Roberts, but was unfortunately often involved with everything poor about Wales too. His spot blitz didn't work today, and instead left the players outside him exposed. His offence was effective, yet filled with errors, especially his passing.
14 Alex Cuthbert - 4. Scored a try, that's about the only thing of note he did. Turnstyle in defence, literally. Unable to keep his depth in attack.
15 Leigh Halfpenny - 9. Once again, Halfpenny gives everything. If every player played like him, we'd be winning these matches. Scored a try, kicked all but the very difficult conversion from the touchline, imperious under the high ball, excellent in defence, and a few nice flick passes to boot. His tackle on SOB showed what he's about, threw himself at the big man, and chopped him down to allow Wales to get the turnover. The man's a class above.
It's confidence, I think it's as simple as that. At the moment he has no belief in what he does as such hes not hitting lines at 100% speed like he did when he burst onto the scene. I think if he can snag a try or two next week then we'll see the real North.
As for Cuthbert is the same but you wince at his part of the Zebo try, he got sucked into an area where two of our guys were anyway and BOD could only take contact with the two defenders or ship it wide. Cuthbert lost all his awareness that Zebo was behind him, now unmarked. He's got to be a bit more of a passive defender in those scenarios - not be drawn to the ball but to anticipate where the ball could do and react accordingly
Issue for them both is that they're in a losing national team and play for losing domestic teams so gaining confidence is going to be difficult.
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North goes laterally too much for my liking.
Looks like he is trying to just use his size.
Tipuric is an excellent player. Great wing forward, must start.
Looks like he is trying to just use his size.
Tipuric is an excellent player. Great wing forward, must start.
DuncTheDoodle
First XV
Jonathan Davies had possibly his worst game for Wales, offering very little, unless you're the ballboy, in which case he was more than happy to hand you the ball. This, however, is not cause to drop him. He'll be back next week, I'm sure of it. Same applies for Ken Owens, who was a bit shakey at the lineout, usually an area of strength. Sure it was just an off-day for both.
I wouldn't drop Cuthbert for anyone. He's one of the best finishers in the world and is too useful in attack to ignore. He sparked a counter-attack at the end of the first half that lead to our first 3 points and got on the outside of his man a few times. North had his best game for a while, and as such I'd stick with him next week, but possibly hand Eli his debut off the bench if he's fit. I'd go with-
Halfpenny, Cuthbert, Davies, Roberts, North, Biggar, Phillips; James, Hibbard/Owens, Adam, Coombs, Evans, Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau; Owens/Rees, Jenkins, Mitchell, Kohn, Ryan, Knoyle, Hook, Walker
I wouldn't drop Cuthbert for anyone. He's one of the best finishers in the world and is too useful in attack to ignore. He sparked a counter-attack at the end of the first half that lead to our first 3 points and got on the outside of his man a few times. North had his best game for a while, and as such I'd stick with him next week, but possibly hand Eli his debut off the bench if he's fit. I'd go with-
Halfpenny, Cuthbert, Davies, Roberts, North, Biggar, Phillips; James, Hibbard/Owens, Adam, Coombs, Evans, Warburton, Tipuric, Faletau; Owens/Rees, Jenkins, Mitchell, Kohn, Ryan, Knoyle, Hook, Walker
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Ah now, Amiga, thats nonsense. After all the controversy over POMs selection during the week he played well and deserves some credit.
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I agree with this. Did Henry deserve to start on form? Probably. Does that mean that O'Mahony is a bad player or that he didn't play well? Hardly. Personally I'm of the opinion that these days people will jump down Kidney's back for the slightest departure from the team they'd pick. I've never really thought Kidney to be a bad selector though. Aside from a few odd calls here and there (keeping Hayes as long as he did, dropping Reddan in favor of Murray and Earls at IC spring to mind) he usually gets roughly the best XV on the park. His problem is that he doesn't have a clue how they should play after that.
Dull Gethin Jenkins a 4 ... Get real, you surely must have seen a different game. The only issue Gethin had was his first scrum where he was correctly penalised for losing his bind.
The intensity of this game will be a big disadvantage for us next week. Heaslip looked absolutley ****ed in his post match interview, said it was one of the toughest games he's played for the last couple of years.
Other than a couple of cover tackles early on, I didn't see him do much at all sorry. I hate saying it, because he's been one of my favourite players for the best part of a decade, but he's just off the pace at the moment. Healy was head and shoulders above him today, and that shows how far he's fallen imo. Unless Jenkins' work rate is high, then there's no point having him in the team ahead of Paul James who offers improved scrummaging. I won't comment too much on Gethins scrummaging, because the entire Welsh scrum didn't perform as expected (Adam giving away penalties etc.), so it's unfair to single him out there. He is just off the pace and it's obvious.
I don't see 4 as overly harsh when many of my other ratings were equally low. The performance in the first 45 mins was simply appalling, and unlike some Gethin didn't improve in the second half. I think it's a little unfair that Howley picked him to start when he's getting zero game time at Toulon, talk about throwing someone of Jenkins' quality into the fire to allow his already sliding reputation to fall further. He needs game time, but the 6 nations is not the place to be getting it!
Edit. He did also make a lovely flick pass from a stolen lineout in the first half. That's the type of stuff we're used to seeing from him. The ESPN stats have him at making 5 tackles, and 2m with ball in hand (I'd say they are reasonably accurate this time), that's not the work rate we're used to seeing from him. He'd usually be up alongside the back row on tackle count, so around double what he put in today, with a few of them being crunching hits in midfield. He'd normally also be responsible for a turn-over or two.
Regarding Shingler. My score of 2 was probably very harsh. Just a little annoyed that he was played ahead of Tipuric due to the lineout and according to ESPN, he was used once in that aspect of play, the same amount as Tipuric. What was the point if we didn't even throw the ball to him?
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Amiga I think you'd probably need to watch the game again, POM actually played pretty well. Henry I think should of started, but POM definitely justified his selection. There wasnt really any notable difference when Henry came on, maybe because before then Wales didnt really start their onslaught, but I do think Henry adds more in defence. However POM he played well.
Jockstrap if Heaslip can't play next week it's not the end of the world. BOD can captain that game, POM can go to 6, SOB 8 and Henry 7. Would be a bit of a blow but not as much as Mike Ross.
Tipuric, Halfpenny and the number 8 whose name I can never spell, were outstanding. I never really rated "the number 8" but I think he's a great ball carrier. Tipuric I now feel should be ahead of Warburton for the 7 shirt - both for the lions and Wales.
Also, I wasn't sure how O'Driscoll would perform, and I don't think many outside Ireland would pick him for the Lions 13 jersey before this 6N. But I think now he's really in contention and is looking in great shape.
Jockstrap if Heaslip can't play next week it's not the end of the world. BOD can captain that game, POM can go to 6, SOB 8 and Henry 7. Would be a bit of a blow but not as much as Mike Ross.
Tipuric, Halfpenny and the number 8 whose name I can never spell, were outstanding. I never really rated "the number 8" but I think he's a great ball carrier. Tipuric I now feel should be ahead of Warburton for the 7 shirt - both for the lions and Wales.
Also, I wasn't sure how O'Driscoll would perform, and I don't think many outside Ireland would pick him for the Lions 13 jersey before this 6N. But I think now he's really in contention and is looking in great shape.
Dull make the excuses all you want and being selective with viewing. Gethin worked flat out, he gave away a penalty for losing his bind but generally had the better of Ross. He was actually one of the first chasers with the backs for up and unders, nuisance at the breakdowns, tackled well and I'm pretty sure he won a turnover.
Adam Jones was hardly penalised by Poite infact it was a criminal decision when Ross folded and somehow won a penalty.
I'm sick and tired of defending the boy. I'm actually staying away from this thread, full of drivel.
Well played Ireland today. Some lovely rugby played.
Adam Jones was hardly penalised by Poite infact it was a criminal decision when Ross folded and somehow won a penalty.
I'm sick and tired of defending the boy. I'm actually staying away from this thread, full of drivel.
Well played Ireland today. Some lovely rugby played.
