USA news & politics

[Ragey Erasmus]

I can understand why many don't want to engage with him as he can be frustrating in nailing down what he actually thinks. HOWEVER, I do think he also shares views he genuinely holds. For example, I genuinely do think he believes all politicians are essentially the same (he obviously recognises differences in character and the way they go about things but he thinks they're al corrupt, power seeking people who don't care about the people) these views I personally quite like to challenge.

One thing Harry is 100% spot on about, and it is a major problem on the left more so than on the right, is this refusal from people on the left to even engage. There's this attitude of "this guy is bad and therefore not worth engaging with" now, I'd agree when it comes to trolling and I'm sorry @dirty harry you are guilty of this (as we all can be from time to time) but, when there is something substantive to talk about I absolutely detest that attitude. If you have strong convictions for your beliefs then you should be able to argue your point not just say "no I'm not going to engage" if you do that then I'm afraid to say Harry is right and all you do is surround yourself in a echo chamber and learn nothing and certainly don't get any closer to defeating the people who hold these views. It's why I'll never put anyone on ignore.

Very noble view but pointless when someone is determined to repeatedly lie, ignore or intentionally misinterpret points being made, play stupid semantic games to avoid the substance of what is being said and refuse to ever support their claim when challenged.

At that point the person doesn't want a discussion.

Harry repeatedly comes into things with no good will at all. Hell we had that big argument a while back and how he claimed Republicans were in the wilderness without Trump and dismissing some of their largest electoral victories in literally a century as "meaningless". How do you have a discussion when someone straight up denies very easily verifiable factual points like that?

 

[Welsh Exile]

You disagree Obama voting for a hard border, and then bragging about stopping border crossings and how many hes deported is similar to Trump?

Mate, if you cant bring a level of integrity to acknowledge this obvious fact then you arent being good faith.

Lets play a game, Trump quote or Obama quote? I bet you won't!

The fact is Trumps border policy is an extention of Obamas, the reason ICE has increased powers in the 2020s is the obama reforms, allowing fingerprinting collaboration, increased resources, and prioritisation.

To not acknowledge Trump and Obama being pretty much identical on border policy, down to the fact I think Trump is trying to break Obamas deportation record, is just wildly dishonest, or and i mean this in the nicest way, a particularly ignorant opinion.

I’m surprised you opened with that mainly due to the fact I’ve been pretty sympathetic to the idea that there have been similarities (I even said as much just now) but ive just challenged you on how similar they really are in totality as it’s my feeling that they’re more different than they are similar but that does not mean to say I think there are no similarities. I even think you could probably draw similarities in their foreign policy but again it would be how similar they really are when looking at the whole thing.

 

[dirty harry]

I can understand why many don't want to engage with him as he can be frustrating in nailing down what he actually thinks. HOWEVER, I do think he also shares views he genuinely holds. For example, I genuinely do think he believes all politicians are essentially the same (he obviously recognises differences in character and the way they go about things but he thinks they're al corrupt, power seeking people who don't care about the people) these views I personally quite like to challenge.

One thing Harry is 100% spot on about, and it is a major problem on the left more so than on the right, is this refusal from people on the left to even engage. There's this attitude of "this guy is bad and therefore not worth engaging with" now, I'd agree when it comes to trolling and I'm sorry @dirty harry you are guilty of this (as we all can be from time to time) but, when there is something substantive to talk about I absolutely detest that attitude. If you have strong convictions for your beliefs then you should be able to argue your point not just say "no I'm not going to engage" if you do that then I'm afraid to say Harry is right and all you do is surround yourself in a echo chamber and learn nothing and certainly don't get any closer to defeating the people who hold these views. It's why I'll never put anyone on ignore.

Infact, jesus I just checked the numbers, Obama deported people in his 2 terms at around 1000 per day, Trumps first term was about 760 per day, and 2nd term is about 660 per day so far...

Maybe im wrong, maybe they are more different than I thought, Trump has been much softer than obama was, 1000 per day is brutally aggressive.

Caveat: numbers from chat gpt, may not be 100% accurate

 

[Welsh Exile]

Very noble view but pointless when someone is determined to repeatedly lie, ignore or intentionally misinterpret points being made, play stupid semantic games to avoid the substance of what is being said and refuse to ever support their claim when challenged.

At that point the person doesn't want a discussion.

Harry repeatedly comes into things with no good will at all. Hell we had that big argument a while back and how he claimed Republicans were in the wilderness without Trump and dismissing some of their largest electoral victories in literally a century as "meaningless". How do you have a discussion when someone straight up denies very easily verifiable factual points like that?

I think you’ve approached it well. I would say your attitude and persistence should be commended, as frustrating as you and others may find it.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Infact, jesus I just checked the numbers, Obama deported people in his 2 terms at around 1000 per day, Trumps first term was about 760 per day, and 2nd term is about 660 per day so far...

Maybe im wrong, maybe they are more different than I thought, Trump has been much softer than obama was, 1000 per day is brutally aggressive.

Caveat: numbers from chat gpt, may not be 100% accurate

This is Piers Morgan’s favourite talking point (I’m surprised you didn’t lead with it) he LOVES asking Dems (do you know how many people were deported under Obama?)

He also loves the drone strike stuff. You should hate him, most of the time he lacks nuance, deliberately so.

 

[dirty harry]

I'm surprised you opened with that mainly due to the fact I've been pretty sympathetic to the idea that there have been similarities (I even said as much just now) but ive just challenged you on how similar they really are in totality as it's my feeling that they're more different than they are similar but that does not mean to say I think there are no similarities. I even think you could probably draw similarities in their foreign policy but again it would be how similar they really are when looking at the whole thing.

I would agree there are more differences than similarities, I never said there weren't, infact from the off my stance was that their rhetoric and mannerisms are very different, as ive said literally a thousnad time here.

But are you accepting, Obamas stances in the 2000s are pretty similar to Trumps now, thats how the scope has shifted, and highlights my main point, that Democrats have shifted to being reactive as opposed to proactive.

Border policy, as I hope you would now agree, is identical.

So this thread goes the same way every time...

I make an assertion, like Trump and Obamas policies and campaign strategies have similarities, or that Trump is not a moron, and the screaming banshees twist it into they are identical (despite making the claim there is NO similarities and they are polar opposites) or that Trump is a genius, the usual suspects chirp in and name calling, call me a troll, and implore everyone to ignore and for the website to ban me, before months of petty mocking statements of 'this is probably Trumps genius plan'

Its sad tbh, despite him winning over and over, the confusion as to how that is, and confusion over someone not agreeing just enrages people. I know you get this is an echo chamber, the only trump supporting American poster just got drove out, numerous posters are afraid to agree with me for fear of being dog piled etc, and the pleas for my banning, despite me being left leaning and anti Trump are constant.

Im starting to think CK is right, maybe there is no real discussion here, if I were to leave, who would you all dog pile, insult or even disagree with? Well on Isreal we both know thats going to be you hahahaha

 

[dirty harry]

This is Piers Morgan's favourite talking point (I'm surprised you didn't lead with it) he LOVES asking Dems (do you know how many people were deported under Obama?)

He also loves the drone strike stuff. You should hate him, most of the time he lacks nuance, deliberately so.

Don't insult me, I wouldnt watch Piers the scumbag Morgan!!!!

Why would I lead with it, ive literally just checked the numbers, to see if Trumps and Obamas were similar, I know increases in powers are, Obama allowed ICE lots of extra power, Trump has built on that.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I would agree there are more differences than similarities, I never said there weren't, infact from the off my stance was that their rhetoric and mannerisms are very different, as ive said literally a thousnad time here.

But are you accepting, Obamas stances in the 2000s are pretty similar to Trumps now, thats how the scope has shifted, and highlights my main point, that Democrats have shifted to being reactive as opposed to proactive.

Border policy, as I hope you would now agree, is identical.

So this thread goes the same way every time...

I make an assertion, like Trump and Obamas policies and campaign strategies have similarities, or that Trump is not a moron, and the screaming banshees twist it into they are identical (despite making the claim there is NO similarities and they are polar opposites) or that Trump is a genius, the usual suspects chirp in and name calling, call me a troll, and implore everyone to ignore and for the website to ban me, before months of petty mocking statements of 'this is probably Trumps genius plan'

Its sad tbh, despite him winning over and over, the confusion as to how that is, and confusion over someone not agreeing just enrages people. I know you get this is an echo chamber, the only trump supporting American poster just got drove out, numerous posters are afraid to agree with me for fear of being dog piled etc, and the pleas for my banning, despite me being left leaning and anti Trump are constant.

Im starting to think CK is right, maybe there is no real discussion here, if I were to leave, who would you all dog pile, insult or even disagree with? Well on Isreal we both know thats going to be you hahahaha

As I said, you started this off by saying

"Essentially be Barrack obama, unapologetically Barrack O Bama for 2010, implement his policies,"

This is a pretty inflammatory comment in my opinion as it implies they are identical. But look, you’ve clarified it now and we both agree there’s more differences than similarities.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Don't insult me, I wouldnt watch Piers the scumbag Morgan!!!!

Why would I lead with it, ive literally just checked the numbers, to see if Trumps and Obamas were similar, I know increases in powers are, Obama allowed ICE lots of extra power, Trump has built on that.

Why don’t you ask ChatGPT how similar Obama and Trumps polices are and ask it to do a side by side table highlighting the similarities under each area such as immigration, economy etc etc.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Also, on CK, I don’t even think he was dog piled on recently was he. I’m sure there’s a few that have him in ignore. He even did that nice post holding his hands up saying his behaviour wasn’t great recently. It seemed it was ok. I dunno, seems a bit rich to cry foul when he’s a big boy, he can make his own decisions. As I said before, you should be confident enough in your own views to argue them.

 

[dirty harry]

Trump is very muc

As I said, you started this off by saying

"Essentially be Barrack obama, unapologetically Barrack O Bama for 2010, implement his policies,"

This is a pretty inflammatory comment in my opinion as it implies they are identical. But look, you've clarified it now and we both agree there's more differences than similarities.

How is that inflammatory, we've now gone over Healthcare, which was proved similarities, and an identical border patrol, you could probably add crime to that too.

So from Healthcare, Border and Crime they are super similar, with a few Social welfare disagreements.

What's next?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Trump is very muc


How is that inflammatory, we've now gone over Healthcare, which was proved similarities, and an identical border patrol, you could probably add crime to that too.

So from Healthcare, Border and Crime they are super similar, with a few Social welfare disagreements.

What's next?

So what are you saying now, have you gone back to saying they are pretty much identical and there’s not many differences? It’s hard to keep up.

 

[dirty harry]

Also, on CK, I don't even think he was dog piled on recently was he. I'm sure there's a few that have him in ignore. He even did that nice post holding his hands up saying his behaviour wasn't great recently. It seemed it was ok. I dunno, seems a bit rich to cry foul when he's a big boy, he can make his own decisions. As I said before, you should be confident enough in your own views to argue them.

Ah so its ok, the dog pilers popped him on ignore so no harm done lol.

 

[dirty harry]

So what are you saying now, have you gone back to saying they are pretty much identical and there's not many differences? It's hard to keep up.

There are 100% differences, but there are similarities, why are you playing games?

Obamas stances from the 2000s and 2010s are now 'racist' republican goals, highlighting once again how the Democrats have shifted and are losing the centrists.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Ah so its ok, the dog pilers popped him on ignore so no harm done lol.

Well if they’ve put him on ignore and they abide by that then, yeah, no harm done. Unless you rather the dog piling continued?

 

[Welsh Exile]

There are 100% differences, but there are similarities, why are you playing games?

Obamas stances from the 2000s and 2010s are now 'racist' republican goals, highlighting once again how the Democrats have shifted and are losing the centrists.

Do you know what, I'm taking lunch soon. I think I will run this through chatGPT and see what it says. At least chatGPT will give me, you know, actual policies and actual things they said rather than you just saying they're the same with no supporting evidence and expecting me to take it at face value. I value what you say a lot of the times mate, but I value chatGPT more lol.

 

[dirty harry]

Well if they've put him on ignore and they abide by that then, yeah, no harm done. Unless you rather the dog piling continued?

The only 2 options are ignoring or dog piling...

Not appropriate behaviour? Hahahaha christ man, are people not allowed to disagree anymore?

Im not sure if you remember a little while back, but I was equated to a MAGA because I wasnt outraged by CK enough, and that I didnt disagree with him vehemently enough in public, judged to refuse to add to the dog piling. Thats an outcome of an echo chamber, if you dont protect the space your an other, sound familiar?

 

[dirty harry]

Do you know what, I'm taking lunch soon. I think I will run this through chatGPT and see what it says. At least chatGPT will give me, you know, actual policies and actual things they said rather than you just saying they're the same with no supporting evidence and expecting me to take it at face value. I value what you say a lot of the times mate, but I value chatGPT more lol.

Im not sure why you've become addicted to chat gpt, id be careful if I were you, its not reliable,. I hope you dont get too much from wiki either, although it does answer some questions.

 

[Welsh Exile]

The only 2 options are ignoring or dog piling...

Not appropriate behaviour? Hahahaha christ man, are people not allowed to disagree anymore?

Im not sure if you remember a little while back, but I was equated to a MAGA because I wasnt outraged by CK enough, and that I didnt disagree with him vehemently enough in public, judged to refuse to add to the dog piling. Thats an outcome of an echo chamber, if you dont protect the space your an other, sound familiar?

No, you’re putting words in my mouth. What I was saying was that it appeared the dog piling had stopped and one of the last posts I remember him making was apologising which I thought was a classy thing to do. Not everyone has him on ignore mate. People still engaged with him fairly without dog piling.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Im not sure why you've become addicted to chat gpt, id be careful if I were you, it's not reliable,. I hope you dont get too much from wiki either, although it does answer some questions.

I'm not a fan of chat gpt (though it's inbuilt to my google search engine but don't have the app)

Wiki is actually underrated. It obviously shouldn't be used for any serious research and should never be taken in isolation as fact but it's great at giving a brief overview on many things.