The 'problem' of Leinster 'dominance'

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Any cap just seems like a way to injure Irish and Leinster rugby long term and make development more difficult. If we use 50 players rather than 60 this season it wouldn't be any less dominant. But it'd soon hurt development.

We'd need to establish a decent A or u23 league.

Until the Scottish and Welsh get their houses in order caps won't help them either, they beat Joe Schmidt's Leinster at their best and Cullen's a year out from European wins. They've regressed far more than Leinster have pulled away. Same with Munster.

IMHO a roster cap would help both Leinster and Ireland as working through a long season is how you develop the soft skills of being a professional rugby player. But that's on Leinster and Ireland's coaching staff not the league to sort out.

If Leinster has 60 top tier players available they need to look at loaning guys out or [grab your rocks] taking another look at how things are set up.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

So? They've a young team, have only just started to back their academy like Leinster and are beginning to reap the rewards of this process. They're well established as a top 3 team in the league and need to take the next step. But they're still not as good as the Scarlets or Glasgow winning sides.

Leinster have a population advantage over most teams but its the well established recruitment and academy system that has reaped rewards, when O'Connor was our coach and ignored youth we suffered.

I could understand a roster cap if a development competition was introduced but salary caps only hurts the quality of rugby in the league and doesn't protect anyone financially like it does in England. If you made a cap at the amount needed for Welsh teams to survive you'd soon kill the competition, we need teams to catch up and challeng not drag the competent outfits down to the mean.

Well this season all the Welsh sides (except Scarlets, ironically) managed some victories against the Irish. Most notably, during the international period Cardiff beat you guys for the first time in a decade. So the building blocks are certainly there.

 

[big ginger 8]

Leinster does not have 60 top guys haha. The last 10 outside the first 50 are mostly academy guys who have now business with serious senior level involvement yet. They only have a few minutes due to injury and itinerary demands. If there was a roster limit like the NFL they'd basically be training squad guys.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

In terms of quality of player, that is the worst Glasgow side of at least the last 8 or so years (although they were missing player of the season Darge). The coach got pretty much the maximum out of them and I'm still impressed he got them to the playoffs. Today's match was a fairly straight union versus union contest between two teams with a near identical catchment area (i.e. the SRU, which I've been banging on about being offensively abject at identifying and nurturing Scottish talent since I joined this forum, got absolutely trousered by the IRFU).

If you want to get annoyed at anyone (as a result of today's game) for creating issues in the league then get annoyed with the SRU!

 

[Tooting Carmen]

In terms of quality of player, that is the worst Glasgow side of at least the last 8 or so years (although they were missing player of the season Darge). The coach got pretty much the maximum out of them and I'm still impressed he got them to the playoffs. Today's match was a fairly straight union versus union contest between two teams with a near identical catchment area (i.e. the SRU, which I've been banging on about being offensively abject at identifying and nurturing Scottish talent since I joined this forum, got absolutely trousered by the IRFU).

If you want to get annoyed at anyone (as a result of today's game) for creating issues in the league then get annoyed with the SRU!

In Glasgow's case, it seemed IMO that the turning point for the worse this season was losing heavily to a hitherto struggling Scarlets side. Before then, Glasgow were usually in the top four of the league during the season.

 

[Amiga500]

We shouldn't be looking to make Leinster worse.

It should be more about everyone else doing better with what they have - or crowbarring out a little more for themselves.

In terms of the other 3 provinces. We need to improve our youth systems. In Ulster, its improving, but there is a massive way to go yet. The focus is overly on the schools system, but due to the history of this place, you aren't getting rugby into ~half the schools here. Therefore not really chasing the clubs is leaving a potential goldmine untapped. Branch need to keep working on that end of the stick as well.

[of course, my gaa-head is kinda having an internal fight with my rugby-head for it'd likely mean players "lost" to rugby - but it could be a successful career for some young men... and a chance to legally beat up on Englishmen.]



I did mention earlier, about the draft pick. As others have said (and I already knew when raising it) - its not really viable due to the way things are run. But there has to be a better way of ensuring that a 19 year old that wouldn't make it in Leinster is picked up and goes North, South or West to another academy if they could make it there - and not be lost to the (professional) game.

Whether that is the IRFU having scouts at club and schools games working on behalf of all provinces that then can recommend youngsters as potentially worth chasing for sub-academy spots if their home province passes them over, or whether that is addressing the perennial problem of the gap between URC and AIL being too large, I don't know.


[none of the above helps the Scots or Welsh of course, but not the IRFU's fault they are basket-cases.]

 

[Greeno]

Can we close this thread now

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I updated the thread ***le with some inverted commas. What's so funny is some guys were so adamant steps had to be taken.

I'm not immune mind, my first post hasnt aged well either.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I acknowledged that we could lose both games that we did before KO. I am the epitome of humble.

 

[Amiga500]

What's so funny is some guys were so adamant steps had to be taken. I

In terms of within Ireland - yes - its still a massive problem. Not Leinster's fault, but the system does need to consider this:

By the simple law of averages, due to the population disparity Leinster will be turning down players who would make it at other provinces.
Add to that their more efficient pathways and schools and that number only increases.

Yes, young fellas don't really want to move away from their mates (and maybe to a lesser extent, mammy and daddy) - but if they want to be professionals - then that comes with challenges.

 

[tirawleybaron]

The IRFU pays 8-10 Leinster players on Central contracts, which effective gives them an advantage over everyone they play - they have experienced senior internationals from the No.1 ranked team in the world for free.

Now a Leinster fan will say they are home grown, but if the IRFU organised their provinces fairly, they would be spreading the centrally contracted players where they are needed to make all their provinces as good as possible.
Instead, the opposite happens - There are two Centrally contracted Connacht reared players playing for Leinster for free, while Connacht have to pay for replacement players who couldn't make it at Leinster.

Leinsters consistency is a product of a system designed to give them an advantage over everyone else.

If the Crusaders, Bulls or anyone else, were handed 2 world class internationals from another province and had their wages covered by someone else, then there would never be any talk of Leinster being the best club in the world.
It's not an ordinary club, it's an IRFU suped up club designed to win and given every possible advantage to allow it do so.
Even the illustrious Leinster schools rugby cup has a Munster school in it (Roscrea)

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The IRFU pays 8-10 Leinster players on Central contracts, which effective gives them an advantage over everyone they play - they have experienced senior internationals from the No.1 ranked team in the world for free.

Now a Leinster fan will say they are home grown, but if the IRFU organised their provinces fairly, they would be spreading the centrally contracted players where they are needed to make all their provinces as good as possible.
Instead, the opposite happens - There are two Centrally contracted Connacht reared players playing for Leinster for free, while Connacht have to pay for replacement players who couldn't make it at Leinster.

Leinsters consistency is a product of a system designed to give them an advantage over everyone else.

If the Crusaders, Bulls or anyone else, were handed 2 world class internationals from another province and had their wages covered by someone else, then there would never be any talk of Leinster being the best club in the world.
It's not an ordinary club, it's an IRFU suped up club designed to win and given every possible advantage to allow it do so.
Even the illustrious Leinster schools rugby cup has a Munster school in it (Roscrea)

Leinster man goes to Connacht school and academy, chooses to transfer for personal reasons - "Forced by the IRFU to go to Leinster."

Connacht man goes to Leinster school and academy, chooses to stay for personal reasons - "Forced by the IRFU to go to Leinster."

School that has grounds in both Munster and Leinster chooses to play in Leinster for Convenience - "Forced by the IRFU to go to Leinster."

Joey Carbery saga -

4.5/10 - Good effort, must do more research.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

A tribute to Robbie Henshaw:

"Well this is a story all about how
My life got flipped turned upside down
I'd like to spend a moment just sit right there
To tell you how I became the prince of a team called Leinster.

In West of Ireland I was born and raised
Down in the countryside where I spent most of my days
Chilling out relaxing maxing all cool
Just playing a bit of Gaelic football
When a couple of scouts who were up to no good
Started looking round the neighbourhood
They had a word with my Mum about life in Dublin and she said
'Move over there and you'll always win'".

 

[Groundhog]

Robbie Henshaw grew up in he quaint western village of Moyard and lived a poor and meagre, yet peaceful existence with his family. As a boy he played hurling and worshipped a fine Catholic god. One day his village was raided by one of Leinster's bloodthirsty raiding parties. The leader of that party seeing Robbie Henshaws great strength and Pro 14 medal upon his neck chose to spare him and grant him a place in Leinster. Robbie accepted knowing it was his only chance of survival but secretly vowed to gain revenge on his kidnapper Leo Cullen by playing average in several key knockout games in the 2021/2022 season.

Also Leo Cullen killed his dog and Sean O'Brien ****** all over his Ma

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Robbie Henshaw grew up in he quaint western village of Moyard and lived a poor and meagre, yet peaceful existence with his family. As a boy he played hurling and worshipped a fine Catholic god. One day his village was raided by one of Leinster's bloodthirsty raiding parties. The leader of that party seeing Robbie Henshaws great strength and Pro 14 medal upon his neck chose to spare him and grant him a place in Leinster. Robbie accepted knowing it was his only chance of survival but secretly vowed to gain revenge on his kidnapper Leo Cullen by playing average in several key knockout games in the 2021/2022 season.

Would you like to attempt to finish the song about him?

 

[tirawleybaron]

Leinster man goes to Connacht school and academy, chooses to transfer for personal reasons - "Forced by the IRFU to go to Leinster."

Connacht man goes to Leinster school and academy, chooses to stay for personal reasons - "Forced by the IRFU to go to Leinster."

School that has grounds in both Munster and Leinster chooses to play in Leinster for Convenience - "Forced by the IRFU to go to Leinster."

Joey Carbery saga -

4.5/10 - Good effort, must do more research.

Carvery went to Munster because he couldn't get past Sexton in Leinster - if the IRFU were interested in having a balanced set of competitive provinces they would have moved Sexton
Henshaw got transferred to Leinster once he got his central contract.
Roscrea is in Munster - look at the map

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Carvery went to Munster because he couldn't get past Sexton in Leinster

He was Leinster's starting Fullback

- if the IRFU were interested in having a balanced set of competitive provinces they would have moved Sexton

Force the best player in the country to move his young family out of his hometown. I'm starting to see why you're not in charge!

Henshaw got transferred to Leinster once he got his central contract.

He chose to move, could have stayed in Connacht had he wanted.

Roscrea is in Munster - look at the map

I did and I was in fact wrong.



CC Roscrea is actually completely within Leinster not split between the two provinces!

 

[Groundhog]

Would you like to attempt to finish the song about him?

Sure!!

O father dear, the day will come when vengeance loud will call,
And we will rise with Connacht's boys to rally one and all.
I'll be the man to lead the van beneath our flag of green,
And loud and high will raise the cry 'Revenge for 2019'

 

[tirawleybaron]

So the Leinster schools system collects, feeds, houses and educates the best young rugby players from around Ireland (including Roscrea village (In Tipperary), Lacken (Co Mayo) and anywhere else.
If they are good enough, they then go onto University in Dublin and get a academy contract in Leinster (the best funded province in Ireland - double any other) and get the odd game for Leinster and then have to move west or north or to England to get a chance for some games because the 1st team is full of centrally contracted players.
If they are good enough they get a big pay rise to play for Ireland.
If they IRFU were operating 4 equal provinces the last big payrise should come with the caveat that you play for whichever province you are told to.

As for up rooting Sexton for more money. He that himself to go to Paris, a two hour drive down the road to Galway wouldn't be that much of a problem

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

So the Leinster schools system collects, feeds, houses and educates the best young rugby players from around Ireland (including Roscrea village (In Tipperary), Lacken (Co Mayo) and anywhere else.
If they are good enough, they then go onto University in Dublin and get a academy contract in Leinster (the best funded province in Ireland - double any other) and get the odd game for Leinster and then have to move west or north or to England to get a chance for some games because the 1st team is full of centrally contracted players.
If they are good enough they get a big pay rise to play for Ireland.
If they IRFU were operating 4 equal provinces the last big payrise should come with the caveat that you play for whichever province you are told to.

As for up rooting Sexton for more money. He that himself to go to Paris, a two hour drive down the road to Galway wouldn't be that much of a problem

Away back to boards with your agenda pal. You're contradicting yourself shamelessly here.